Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th March 2009, 16:28   #61
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Nikhilb2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,825
Thanked: 4,801 Times
Default

Raccoon, hard and soft shoudnt be your concern. They will NOT make a difference. It's all in the mind. As I said, you are getting too technical.

Also, most shops wont exchange. That one guy who exchanges from whom you bought your tyres might sell the Challenger 101 as a new tyre after a wash and a polish. This brings us to another point. How do oyu know the tyres you got are brand new and not oooold stuff just washed and polished?

You are not doing justice to your bike by this.
Nikhilb2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2009, 16:33   #62
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
That pattern is older then you probably. That tyre (tread pattern) came on the Yamaha RD 350 as OE. No not because of the performance, but only because it lasts and was meant for bad roads and with a pinch we can expect it to be better - handling wise. But thats ages ago and better tyre tech is available. Try riding in the wet with those tyres...
Good gawd... must be an ancient pattern! But does the tread make that much difference to tyre life?? I thought its the compound that is the determining factor!

Is this tread pattern known to have bad grip in the wet?? I'd think the centre groove and fairly deep treads would be good at channeling away water...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Exchange? which tyre shop exchanges used tyre's anywhere?
Well, as mentioned in posts above, it was this tyre shop that was ready to buy back the skinnier (2.75 x 18) tyre that I was earlier cheated into buying. Later, they even bought back the Challenger 101 that I bought from them. All this at a loss to me, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Surprisng that in a place like Pune this tyre isnt available. Try looking a bit more harder. And the places you have mentioned and their knowledge about tyres, you are in the wrong place. These places cater to the average(if thats the right term) rider who needs a tyre. Period. What, why is non of their concern. Cheap and should be a tyre.

Try Michelin's.
I could look a bit harder, but I doubt if anybody will buy the tyre back. You are right about those places catering to "the average". But then I just wanted to buy a relatively cheap tyre (of course the best in that catageory) for the old bike. Didnt want to spend extra for Michellins.

Can you tell me which might be the best buy among Dunlop/Ceat/etc? I could still manage to get it changed.

Also, am considering a ribbed Dunlop or Ceat for the front. Do you think thats the best idea? Please dont suggest MRF unless you know for sure that its grippier than the softer compounds of the Dunlops/Ceats.

Something intresting I read here:
Quote:
It is not just the size that matters but also the compound of what it is made of:

This is speaking from a personal experience of mine. I have a Yamaha RX100 (which my brother rides in Bangalore right now) and recently I went in for a rear tyre change. This time instead of going in for a tyre with fancy racing pattern, I went in for one with a simple pattern but which was made of "softer compound". The brand of this new tyre was "CEAT" and the tyre is called "SECURA".

I went for this tyre on the recommendation of my mechanic and boy was I impressed with the tyre..!! Although the "CEAT SECURA" did not have any fancy patterns, the grip from that tyre was very impressive.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2009, 16:42   #63
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Nikhilb2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,825
Thanked: 4,801 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Something intresting I read here:
Just someone mentioning something doesnt make it right! I will post tomorrow saying that ABC tyre is best for all conditions, etc... Will you believe me? It is very difficult to know whom to trust and whom not to on the internet.
Nikhilb2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2009, 16:58   #64
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

^^^Yes, of course! But a lot of people told me something similar. Having no experience towards changing tyres on bikes, I had to make use of others experiences...
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2009, 12:46   #65
Senior - BHPian
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka
Posts: 3,242
Thanked: 692 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Good gawd... must be an ancient pattern! But does the tread make that much difference to tyre life?? I thought its the compound that is the determining factor!
To an extent yes, tread pattern does make a difference to tyre life. Try and see how long a knobby tyre lasts on smooth tarmac compared to bad roads.

Quote:
Is this tread pattern known to have bad grip in the wet?? I'd think the centre groove and fairly deep treads would be good at channeling away water...?
Had this tyre on my RD350 back in Goa and the rains there are quite heavy. Aquaplaning is a taken with those tyres.

Quote:
Well, as mentioned in posts above, it was this tyre shop that was ready to buy back the skinnier (2.75 x 18) tyre that I was earlier cheated into buying. Later, they even bought back the Challenger 101 that I bought from them. All this at a loss to me, of course.
Like Nikhil said you probably got a used one too. Avoid such stores. Cheap is good. But with something like tyres, a few bucks more go a long way in ensuring your safety.

Quote:
Can you tell me which might be the best buy among Dunlop/Ceat/etc? I could still manage to get it changed.
Well stick to what you have. I read your first post and realised money is tight. That tyre at that price is good enough.

Quote:
Also, am considering a ribbed Dunlop or Ceat for the front. Do you think thats the best idea? Please dont suggest MRF unless you know for sure that its grippier than the softer compounds of the Dunlops/Ceats.
I am one of the guys who uses a zapper on the front(RX100). Bad choice i know but i ride it without taking risks. Why dont i change it? well bad decision in the first place and now no time to get it changed.

About ribbed front tyres, they are good for mileage. Good enough if you are not taking it to the tracks.

Well to sum it, in the lower price bracket. You will get a tyre that will last, i.e. hard compound. And due to the inherent qualities of hard compound, grip in the wet and dry might be compromised. But then its not daily you will be scrapping your footpegs. Stick to what you have.
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2009, 13:30   #66
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Had this tyre on my RD350 back in Goa and the rains there are quite heavy. Aquaplaning is a taken with those tyres.

Were those Dunlops or something else? It seems this pattern is shared by MRF Nylogrip and most likely other brands too. Hmmm...

Quote:
Like Nikhil said you probably got a used one too. Avoid such stores. Cheap is good. But with something like tyres, a few bucks more go a long way in ensuring your safety.
I do avoid such stores! The only reason I was forced get it form there is because they were ready to buy back my 2 day old skinnier tyre. Cant just throw it away after all!

The manufacturing code on the tyre currently on my bike (Challenger) is "1009". So its from a very new stock. Also, there is no sign on it to suggest that it was pre-used. Hence, I don't think its a used tyre.

Quote:
Well stick to what you have. I read your first post and realised money is tight. That tyre at that price is good enough.
I guess I might stick to it. With the money I'v wasted on it, I could have gotten myself a premium tyre... sigh! But it looks so much plane jane, that I feel like changing it when I see it... Lol!

Quote:
I am one of the guys who uses a zapper on the front(RX100). Bad choice i know but i ride it without taking risks. Why dont i change it? well bad decision in the first place and now no time to get it changed.

About ribbed front tyres, they are good for mileage. Good enough if you are not taking it to the tracks.
Good for mileage as in good for fuel efficiency or do you mean the tyre will last longer? How does the ribbed pattern compare to the newer pattern found on tyres like the Zapper FS (stock tyre on my CBZ and many other new bikes)?

Quote:
Well to sum it, in the lower price bracket. You will get a tyre that will last, i.e. hard compound. And due to the inherent qualities of hard compound, grip in the wet and dry might be compromised. But then its not daily you will be scrapping your footpegs. Stick to what you have.
Dunno why you say its a hard compound - It definitely feels softer than many other brands like MRF, TVS, etc. Or maybe you are comparing with Michellins or other imported stuff... in that case, I can't comment as I haven't checked them out.

Lastly, there shouldn't be any issue if I mix brands, right? Like if I buy a Ceat for the front, to go with my Dunlop on the rear?
.

Thanks so much for your inputs. Really appreciate it.

.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2009, 14:21   #67
Senior - BHPian
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka
Posts: 3,242
Thanked: 692 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Default

Quote:
Were those Dunlops or something else? It seems this pattern is shared by MRF Nylogrip and most likely other brands too. Hmmm...
Dunlops.

Quote:
I do avoid such stores! The only reason I was forced get it form there is because they were ready to buy back my 2 day old skinnier tyre. Cant just throw it away after all!
The manufacturing code on the tyre currently on my bike (Challenger) is "1009". So its from a very new stock. Also, there is no sign on it to suggest that it was pre-used. Hence, I don't think its a used tyre.
Good enough. Trying to save a few bucks mostly does the opposite.

Quote:
I guess I might stick to it. With the money I'v wasted on it, I could have gotten myself a premium tyre... sigh! But it loks so much plane jane, that I feel like changing it when I see it... Lol!
LOL, the amount of time put in to research and the money spend far exceeds what you eventually settled for.

Quote:
Good for mileage as in good for fuel efficiency or do you mean the tyre will last longer? How does the ribbed pattern compare to the newer pattern found on tyres like the Zapper FS (stock tyre on my CBZ and many other new bikes)?
Mileage. Ribbed are not bad, but you have better options.

Quote:
Dunno why you say its a hard compound - It definitely feels softer than many other brands like MRF, TVS, etc. Or maybe you are comparing with Michellins or other imported stuff... in that case, I can't comment as I haven't checked them out.
Feel is different from what it actually is.

Know whats the biggest secret in automobile industry? The actual raw materials and the proportions that go into making of the rubber used in your tyres. You will not get this anywhere.

Quote:
Lastly, there shouldn't be any issue if I mix brands, right? Like if I buy a Ceat for the front, to go with my Dunlop on the rear?
Nope.

About helping out. I get a lot from this forum and if i can give back whatever i can, its a good feeling
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2009, 15:45   #68
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Good enough. Trying to save a few bucks mostly does the opposite.

LOL, the amount of time put in to research and the money spend far exceeds what you eventually settled for.
Just learnt that once again... :(


Quote:
Feel is different from what it actually is.

Know whats the biggest secret in automobile industry? The actual raw materials and the proportions that go into making of the rubber used in your tyres. You will not get this anywhere.
Yes, that I know!

Quote:
About helping out. I get a lot from this forum and if i can give back whatever i can, its a good feeling
Exactly the same feeling here...
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2009, 15:02   #69
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Need some help from you guys again. Finally found a MRF dealer in my area. He has Zapper Q but he swears that 3.00 x 18 size (for Shogun) is not manufactured by MRF.

Now the post below got me thinking that the size mentioned might in some alternate measuring system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post

For grip, you should have bought Zapper-Q as Prajeep suggested. the 90/90 size is close to the 3.00" tyre. Well, next time. Try to get MRF Zapper FV for the front.
I know about metric sizes, as thats what is used for car tyres, but not sure about the inch system. Can somebody tell me what exactly it denotes? For eg. the 18 in 3.00 x 18 denotes the rim size in inches, but what does 3.00 denote? Is it the tread width? But then what about the sidewall height?? Or is there some kind of constant ratio for sidewall hight in tyres marked with the inch system? If there is no convention for this, then what keeps different manufacturers from making tyres with varying sidewall heights for the same tyre size?

Also, if the "3" in 3.00 x 18 denotes tread width then,

3 inches = 76.19999999999999 mm

so tread width should be about 76 mm. How then can the 90/90 18 tyre be equivalent as stated in kuttapan post?

So the question is if I want a tyre for the Shogun, and don't want to deviate from the stock size (including aspect ratio/sidewall height) even a little, then can I pick up a tyre available in metric sizes (like Zapper Q)? If yes, then which size? From what I mentioned above, 90/90 size does not seem to be it!

Could not find the Zapper FV (for the front) anywhere. :(

Last edited by Raccoon : 4th April 2009 at 15:03.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 15:39   #70
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Not a single reply? :(
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2009, 18:16   #71
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Need some help from you guys again. Finally found a MRF dealer in my area. He has Zapper Q but he swears that 3.00 x 18 size (for Shogun) is not manufactured by MRF.

I know about metric sizes, as thats what is used for car tyres, but not sure about the inch system. Can somebody tell me what exactly it denotes? For eg. the 18 in 3.00 x 18 denotes the rim size in inches, but what does 3.00 denote? Is it the tread width? But then what about the sidewall height?? Or is there some kind of constant ratio for sidewall hight in tyres marked with the inch system? If there is no convention for this, then what keeps different manufacturers from making tyres with varying sidewall heights for the same tyre size?

Also, if the "3" in 3.00 x 18 denotes tread width then,

3 inches = 76.19999999999999 mm

so tread width should be about 76 mm. How then can the 90/90 18 tyre be equivalent as stated in kuttapan post?

So the question is if I want a tyre for the Shogun, and don't want to deviate from the stock size (including aspect ratio/sidewall height) even a little, then can I pick up a tyre available in metric sizes (like Zapper Q)? If yes, then which size? From what I mentioned above, 90/90 size does not seem to be it!

Could not find the Zapper FV (for the front) anywhere. :(
3.00 in 300x18 means that the tread is 3 inches wide.

Zapper Q doesn't come in old type sizing. Get 100/90 18 Zapper Q, it will be slightly wider than 300x18, but still would fit fine.

Zapper Q is soft at the centre of if you don't use the shoulders much, the Q has a tendency to become flat at the center. Zapper Y has a sturdier centre section, but use Zapper Y with a matching front tyre with centre groove, otherwise it would not tract well in wet, since it doesn't have a central groove or sipes. For the front get Zapper FS 90.
Sankar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2009, 02:50   #72
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

^^^Thanks mate! But the question was about the sidewall height in tyres measured in the inch system! The question is relevant because I want to avoid any change in the tyre's outer diameter; as this will obviously affect top speed and acceleration.

Regarding your recommendation of going in for a 100/90 sized Zapper Q,

100 mm = 3.93 inches ....ie. almost 4 inches!

This tyre will be way oversized dude! I don't want to deviate from the stock size as I don't want any change in fuel economy and/or acceleration. I very much doubt this will even fit on the Shogun.

Seems to be only a 80/x 18 tyre will be a close equivalent, if available. What do you think? Will it affect fuel eco/acceleration?

As for Zapper Y, I have that on my new CBZ-X, and its grip sux big time! I certainly don't want that on my Shogun.

I went to a tyre shop tonight. I was considering the Dunlop Zebra (pic from Falcon Tyres site below). It has a pattern similar to the Zapper FS. But the guys there strongly dissuaded me from putting that on a Shogun as it dosen't have a disc brake. They said it would slip/not grip well, etc on a bike with no disc brakes. No logical explaination as to how this would happen. Do you think this has any truth in it?

Am also considering the Zapper FV... but still not able to find it anywhere.

Any other comments?
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Raccoon : 7th April 2009 at 02:55.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2009, 08:20   #73
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post

Regarding your recommendation of going in for a 100/90 sized Zapper Q,

100 mm = 3.93 inches ....ie. almost 4 inches!

This tyre will be way oversized dude! I don't want to deviate from the stock size as I don't want any change in fuel economy and/or acceleration. I very much doubt this will even fit on the Shogun.

Seems to be only a 80/x 18 tyre will be a close equivalent, if available. What do you think? Will it affect fuel eco/acceleration?

As for Zapper Y, I have that on my new CBZ-X, and its grip sux big time! I certainly don't want that on my Shogun.

I went to a tyre shop tonight. I was considering the Dunlop Zebra (pic from Falcon Tyres site below). It has a pattern similar to the Zapper FS. But the guys there strongly dissuaded me from putting that on a Shogun as it dosen't have a disc brake. They said it would slip/not grip well, etc on a bike with no disc brakes. No logical explaination as to how this would happen. Do you think this has any truth in it?

Am also considering the Zapper FV... but still not able to find it anywhere.

Any other comments?
100/90 18 will fit the shogun. If you can find a better 100/80 18 other than the Dunlop go for it. The excuse shop gave you doesn't hold water.

80/80 x 18 would be cycle tyre thin if you ever manage to find it. I say put the thoeries to rest and test the tyres. Also there was a 3x18 Zapper C available, i don't know if it's still. It looks almost as wide as a 100/90 18, i had it on my RX.

Zapper Y is a great tyre, i have it as OE on the Karizma, i came back to this tyre after trying out Pirelli SD. Grip is very good in the dry, on tarmac and i can corner hard. On the wet i don't try to corner much so can't comment on cornering grip in the wet, but straight line braking in the wet is good. On sand and gravel it's bad since this is a tarmac tyre, for mixed terrain of all the Zappers i think the Pulsar OE ones are good. I did 3 long rides on this tyre and the performance was satisfying. The pics below show the tyres after a ghat section, bike was loaded and footrests digs in otherwise would've taken care of that chicken strip at the rear tyre With the Y grip levels have increased as the tyre was used. Front is a FS and it's good as well.
Best tyres for Suzuki Shogun?-dsc00688.jpg
Best tyres for Suzuki Shogun?-dsc00690.jpg
Sankar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2009, 11:35   #74
Senior - BHPian
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka
Posts: 3,242
Thanked: 692 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Default

Oh you still at it?

Get any of the tyres mentioned above man. A 1 inch increase in height from stock will have negligeble impact on your gearing or mileage.

OT: Are you a lawyer?
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2009, 17:50   #75
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Sankar, thanks a ton again for your inputs!

After much pondering, waiting, searching, I finally got fed up and bought a Dunlop ribbed front tyre. Michellin is just not available anywhere, nor is the Zapper FV. And it seems the Zapper FV costs about 1,250 (cant recall if it includes tube)... and at that rate one might as well go in for a Michellin!

Strangely all the other dealers I visited also told me no to go in for the Dunlop Zebra Y as that pattern does not grip well/is not suitable for bikes with drum brakes. Really strange! Anyway, since the OEM tyre was also ribbed, I thought I can't really go wrong with the ribbed pattern.

Have hardly ridden the bike since the change, but yes the handling has improved a lot. Feel a lot safer on my gun now.

The only dealer who had the Zapper Q in stock, Vinayak Tyres, Paud Road, is an exclusive MRF dealer. Their prices are a bit less competitive though. However, the smallest size was a 110/x. And Sankar, as you said, they did have a Zapper C in 3 x 18 size. However since the Zapper Q which I was considering is not an option, and even a Michellin is not an option, I'v decided to stick to the Dunlop Challenger in the rear, at least for now. Its not a bad tyre.... and I feel it performs better on bad roads (sand/gravel/etc) than the Zapper Y at least.

Had a closer look at the MRFs at the above dealer. Esp. the Nylogrip Plus, whose pattern seems identical to the Dunlop Challenger. I must say the MRF seems lot more impressive with more rubber and deeper grooves. The rubber also does not seem as hard as some other MRF tyres. The Zapper FV also looks more impressive than the Dunlop Zebra, for the same reason. Don't know how these fare on a comparative basis though, as I can't possibly try them all on my bike.

That said, I'd like to add a brief word on the dealer from where I finally got the tyre. I decided to go to a proper tyre shop, as I had a bad experience (mentioned earlier) with the small time dealer, when I bought the rear tyre.

The shop, though is one of the better known ones in town is not at all professional. The guy who changed my tyre was about as crude (worse actually) as a roadside puncture-walla! No proper working space for bikes is there and the same kinda crude tools (no tyre irons, etc) like screwdriver, etc were used. The guy didn't even bother to put in the white powder untill I got him to do it. Had to repramand him several times, my poor bike would have several more scratches on it.

And yes, I was again told that the tyre changing machine cannot be used for bikes.

So dudes, just because a shop looks swankier and has uniformed workers, etc., does not necessarily mean anything at the end of the day. The shop in question is Darshan Tyres on Fergussion College Road (Opposite Police Ground). Would caution XBHPians from Pune against such places.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Suzuki Shogun. akeel Motorbikes 47 6th July 2015 07:04
Looking for a Suzuki Shogun Mechanic / specialist in Bangalore sfilinto Motorbikes 6 17th October 2014 17:28
Suzuki Shogun: The Boss (Wanted) benvsben Motorbikes 34 21st August 2009 17:21
wanted rx/suzuki shogun/shaolin cooljun Shifting gears 5 12th April 2006 13:13
suzuki shogun Vs yam rx 100(which one?) Rice_tuner Motorbikes 114 29th June 2005 16:07


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:42.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks