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Old 13th February 2009, 17:29   #31
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This is how I see it and maybe it works for others too:

1. If the automotive product is a direct CBU and sold in India, it ought to be called by its global product name. The vehicle then is a pure import to run in India. Sharath's Grand Vitara is a Grand Vitara. Not a Maruti UV.

For example, if AutoHangar in mumbai imports Merc's as a sole distributor in India and sells them, do you think we will call these Merc's Autohangar Mercedes? No!

2. On the other hand, if the vehicle in question is built and manufactured in Indian soil, using Indian know-how (maybe borrowed or trained from foreign hands) and Indian money, then it is only fair that the local manufacturer's name is embalmed on the product. Which is precisely what TVS realised after initial launch and changed all their product names to TVS - followed by the individual product name.

Call yours a Suzuki whatever, it is still a TVS with built with the sweat of a hard working Indian labourer. I highly doubt that just because its a plain Suzuki moniker gives you exclusive bragging/reseller rights in the two wheeler market. Unless your bore, engine, panels et all were direct imports and was thus "of a better build quality" - much like Sharath's GV may be when compared to locally manufactured GV's (are they?).

You should be proud to call it a TVS rather than hanker after a Japanese 2 wheeler manufacturer. Even RD's manufactured under the Rajdoot moniker are called Rajdoot Yamaha's. I am equally proud about my Willy's being manufactured in India by M&M. Was their earliest set of babies.
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Old 13th February 2009, 17:35   #32
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Originally Posted by gowda79 View Post
That's there wish to name the vehicle, as in this forum many of them have kept names which they feel is better for them.
Anybody who is familiar with Sino-Japanese history and culture would wonder at that name. Japanese would loath to borrow a name that is a Chinese Icon. How does Honda Annapurna sound in European market? Anyway, I rest my case.

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Originally Posted by hrag View Post
So when did the Jimny become the Vitara / Grand Vitara?
It didn't, they are not the same.
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Old 13th February 2009, 17:38   #33
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
This is how I see it and maybe it works for others too:




You should be proud to call it a TVS rather than hanker after a Japanese 2 wheeler manufacturer. Even RD's manufactured under the Rajdoot moniker are called Rajdoot Yamaha's. I am equally proud about my Willy's being manufactured in India by M&M. Was their earliest set of babies.
Then please call your 4x4 SUV has the Mahindra SUV you should feel proud it is manufacture by Indian company and not to use the US Brand name JEEP.

Last edited by gowda79 : 13th February 2009 at 17:41.
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Old 13th February 2009, 17:50   #34
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Originally Posted by gowda79 View Post
Then please call your 4x4 SUV has the Mahindra SUV you should feel proud it is manufacture by Indian company and not to use the US Brand name JEEP.
Absolutely! Which is why I still have the manufacturing plate in the passenger side of the vehicle upfront and I proudly show it off! It says very clearly, manufactured by Mahindra & Mahindra. Please also note my signature - I do not make the mention Jeep.

And its not an SUV. Get your logistics about vehicles right. Like Sharath mentioned earlier, a Jeep is a universal and globally accepted moniker for a certain class of vehicles. The GV is an SUV. Is the Bolero a Jeep? Absolutely Not! Its a UV bordering an SUV.

This discussion can go on and on. At the end of the day, its about how you perceive a particular product and if you are happy with that perception. If it makes you happy and performs to that perception, go ahead with it.

Last edited by Red Liner : 13th February 2009 at 17:55.
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Old 13th February 2009, 18:05   #35
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Absolutely! Which is why I still have the manufacturing plate in the passenger side of the vehicle upfront and I proudly show it off! It says very clearly, manufactured by Mahindra & Mahindra. Please also note my signature - I do not make the mention Jeep.

And its not an SUV. Get your logistics about vehicles right. Like Sharath mentioned earlier, a Jeep is a universal and globally accepted moniker for a certain class of vehicles. The GV is an SUV. Is the Bolero a Jeep? Absolutely Not! Its a UV bordering an SUV.

This discussion can go on and on. At the end of the day, its about how you perceive a particular product and if you are happy with that perception. If it makes you happy and performs to that perception, go ahead with it.

Source - Wikipedia -


Jeep is an automobile marque (and registered trademark) of Chrysler. It is the oldest off-road vehicle (also sport utility vehicle - SUV) brand

JEEP derived from GP - General Purpose vehicle which was not used and JEEP became the trade mark of willys.

Hope i got the logistics of the vehicle right and also thanks for making an effort to clear the misconception on the brands.
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Old 13th February 2009, 18:14   #36
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What's the confusion guys? If you bought a TVS Suzuki Shogun it's a TVS suzuki Shogun and if you bought a Ind Suzuki it's an Ind Suzuki. If you bought a Suzuki Shogun from Japan direct it's a Suzuki Shogun but alas Japan dint have any Suzuki Shogun two wheelers.. If you have a Royal Enfield Bullet Machismo (AVL) it's still a Bullet. Why? Coz that's how the company calls it and sells it.

There is no need for this, couple of first lot bikes had Japanese parts and the later had Indian parts.. but a TVS Suzuki is still a TVS suzuki. TVS dint use the TVS moniker on it's bikes till they divorced with Suzuki. So after divorce ther was no TVS Suzuki/Suzuki only TVS, before divorce it was Suzuki/TVS suzuki... whatever still made by TVS.

Why not call the Ambassador the Morris oxford?

There is no such thing as a true global brandname... some models had same name all over he world and some didnt.
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Old 13th February 2009, 18:20   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gowda79 View Post

Source - Wikipedia -


Jeep is an automobile marque (and registered trademark) of Chrysler. It is the oldest off-road vehicle (also sport utility vehicle - SUV) brand

JEEP derived from GP - General Purpose vehicle which was not used and JEEP became the trade mark of willys.
All Jeeps are not SUVs, but some Jeeps are SUVs. The concept of SUV wasn't even there or maybe not even dreamt off when Jeep was rolled out for the first time.

Wikipedia is not always right.. if i want to i can go in there and edit pages. Unless someone else contest the editing it will stay as it is.

Here's a nice read Slashdot | False Fact On Wikipedia Proves Itself
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Old 13th February 2009, 18:26   #38
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Samurai not only existed but was a bit hit esp in Bangalore where every college student had to have one. This is when Hero Honda was too mild(nerdy) and RX100 was too wild, Samurai was the perfect middle level bike.

I feel they used the name 'because' it was already used by Suzuki overseas and already copyrighted. Also, since the Samurai was called Gypsy in India, there was nothing to worry about.
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Old 13th February 2009, 19:27   #39
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
The company started off with Ind-Suzuki bike, then changed to TVS-Suzuki AX100 and then brought out the Samurai, Shogun & Shaolin in just the Suzuki name. At that time the TVS-Suzuki AX100 was also available, IIRC.
@John: You missed to add the TVS-SUZUKI AX100 R (R stood for 'rugged')that was launched after the TVS-SUZUKI AX100 which had bigger tyres and was heavier than its predecessor. The same was then redesigned and rebadged the SUZUKI SAMURAI . I owned one for 13 years and it was a classy machine.
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Old 13th February 2009, 21:05   #40
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Wasn't there something called the TVS Supra too ? Got to ride it once and dam it was one helluva bike.
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Old 13th February 2009, 21:18   #41
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Seems like this thread off-shot from a Jeep/SUV discussion and now again back to Jeep/SUV discussion. World is indeed round. ;-)
BTW, I also owned a Suzuki(or whatever) Fiero and it was a very nice bike except those stupid Tires. As a matter of fact all my vehicles till date are from Suzuki (or atleast have the name) it seems. Anyway enough of OT from my side.
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Old 13th February 2009, 21:21   #42
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Originally Posted by rjstyles69 View Post
Wasn't there something called the TVS Supra too ? Got to ride it once and dam it was one helluva bike.
Yes. There was the TVS Supra that was launched and also its successor called the TVS Supra 'POWER UP' that was launched later which boasted on a unique dual colour tone which was not very common those days.
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Old 16th February 2009, 12:18   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
a Jeep is a universal and globally accepted moniker for a certain class of vehicles. The GV is an SUV. Is the Bolero a Jeep? Absolutely Not! Its a UV bordering an SUV.
OT - It's like calling a Carbon copy as XEROX, though XEROX is a brand name.
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Old 16th February 2009, 17:02   #44
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The facts,
TVS and Suzuki merged to launch their first 100cc motorcycle in the country back in 84. Their first product was called Ind-Suzuki AX100.
These engines had cylinders/crankcases/carbs/body parts etc all manufactured from Japan. Untill about 88, when TVS started making their own parts locally. yet most of the components were imported.
TVS-Suzuki (the venture was called-so) built their first powerful street bike, named the Suzuki Supra which pumped 9.5bhp.
LAter a rally version was sold as the Suzuki Supra SS and it pumped a good 16bhp from its 98cc mill.
The Supra SS was sold for a limited period and only to a few contacts.
Later TVS-Suzuki launched their first road-legal version of the Supra SS with new styling and a big-bore and named it the Suzuki Shogun(110cc).
The rights to design/manufacture/sell were given to TVS by Suzuki. It was called "Suzuki Shogun" and not TVS-Suzuki Shogun.
Mid-way the AX100 recieved a face-lift. The body panels were borrowed from the Shogun and with a few fixes, the Suzuki Samurai was born.
Its a Suzuki Lisenced product and was sold as the Suzuki Samurai from 1995. The samurai has been exported in plenty untill its production halt in 2002. Even to this day the Max100 is exported to africa and other countries.
Later the Suzuki Shaolin with a TVS-inhouse designed gearbox was launched. CC now upped to 138, the shaolin was the big-bore of the original AX platform.
Shaolin and shogun were phased as part of TVS' new emission reformations in 2000.
In 1999 Nov TVS-Suzuki launched the Suzuki Fiero which was a almost a 60% japanese design completely deisgned by the japanese team from Suzuki Motor Co, Japan. Originally named as the AX150, the Suzuki Fiero was sold with the Suzuki tag untill 2002. The Fiero was later sold as the TVS-Fiero till June 2003 after the JV break.
TVS and Suzuki parted ways in 2001 sep and the company was renamed as TVS Motor Co. Ltd.
The Suzuki Samurai was replaced by the TVS Victor GL eventually, however the AX platform engine named TVS MAX100/R was sold in India untill 2005.
The Suzuki licensed bikes sold in India were,
Ind-Suzuki AX100
Suzuki Supra Power-up
Suzuki Supra SS (Limited edition)
Suzuki Shogun
Suzuki Samurai
Suzuki Shaolin
Suzuki Fiero/AX150
Most of these models were imported.

Most of these japanese makers interchange names.
Suzuki samurai is Suzuki Jimny abroad.
Suzuki Shogun, a 110cc 2-stroke bike here is sold by Suzuki as a 110cc 4-stroke step-thru in Thailand/malay/singy.
Suzuki Samuari was never sold as TVS Samurai or TVS-Suzuki Samurai.
Hope the doubt is cleared.

Joel
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Old 16th February 2009, 17:07   #45
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That was some nice detail information Joel, thanks for posting

Quote:
Suzuki Shogun, a 110cc 2-stroke bike here is sold by Suzuki as a 110cc 4-stroke step-thru in Thailand/malay/singy.
No wonder the few step thru's I saw in Malaysia were so fast

Last edited by Technocrat : 16th February 2009 at 17:08.
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