Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd February 2009, 09:30   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
1) I really doubt if it reffers to the number of filaments. Please see the pic which shows the box of the Osram halogen currently on my Shogun (which I just bought) and the original Ravi tungsten filament bulb. Both clearly have a double filament. The other halogens I tried (as mentioned earlier) also had double filaments, as far as I can recall.

2) +60 sounds really good. I'm really sceptical about Halonix, because as I mentioned earlier, the light output was really poor. But I guess it might be worth trying out the latest ones (which claim to have Xenon)... if available for the Shogun's holder.

3) Would a Pulsar's headlight assembly be a direct fit on the Shogun? But I guess the fairing would have to go... :(

4) I don't think replacing with another Shogun headlight assy. would be a good idea as everyone seems to unanimously agree that it has a poor reflector and is not of good quality. Besides, its not likely to be easily available, even if I want it.

5) I'm still hoping someone will tell me what exactly I should do to change the holder to H4 type... I mean would it be a direct fit, what should I ask for, etc? And would changing to a H4 bulb offer a definite improvement over the current stock holder/bulb... considering both will be of 35 Watts only?
1) H1, H3, H7, H8, H9, H11 are all single filament. H4 is dual filament. The picture ( thanks for putting up picture ) you have posted, what type of Halogen is it, H4 or HS1 ?
I think that HS1 has dual filaments and IIRC, this ( HS1 ) is the bulb that comes in Pulsar, though I might be wrong.

2) Did you try +60 ? +60 are nice, but again my doubts are raised now as my Zeus has +60 and though the beam is nicely designed thanks to reflectors, the intensity is not there.

3 and 4) Yes the fairing will have to go. I dont know if its a direct fit or not, but I have seen RX100, Samurai, etc. bikes to have the headlamp assembly. It matter of clamps and a bit of so called playing around. Its not that tough.

5) I think that the H4 usually comes in P43t or Px43t bulb base, so you will have to change the holder. The picture shown of the present bulb you have indicate that the base is different. The H4 bulb base is bigger and its not easy to fit in your present assembly. So you will have to change the assembly. If you are able to get on H4 bulb with the same base as you have right now, then go for it, but make sure its not fake.

Fitting in H4 will give better light IMHO, though I cannot commit here.

The best thing is to go for a new assembly that can take H4. Try pulsar as I think the bulb base they have is P43T.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2009, 17:20   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

^^^ 1) Now I'm more confused - H4, H1, etc., etc... seems they dont signify the holder type, but bulb construction. Am I right? I really have no idea what type of halogen the Oram is. It dosent seem mentioned on the box. Actually, the base of the ordinary bulb can be seen in the pic. I guess its not H4... and I guess H4s are found only on the latest bikes. The box mentions "Product: P15D-25-3. Dunno if that signifies the type of bulb or whatever...

2) Not tried the +60... the shop didn't have it... not for the Shogun's holder. In Halonix, he only had M5 something... (made in 2004). The illumination of that bulb was pathetic as I mentioned earlier.

3) Playing around is is what I'm patrefied about. Even while I thought nothing much can go wrong while just changing the bulb, the mech at the shop broke one of the screws and part of it is wedged inside the headlight assy. The less they get their sloppy hands on my bike the better... else I have to figure out how to do it myself.

5) Fakes scare me a lot... and I don't know if I will be able to make out the difference. Seems Halonix does not have authorised dealers from whom I can get a genuine product.

I will inqure about the cost and feasibality of fitting a Pulsar or Samurai assy.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2009, 17:43   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
1) Now I'm more confused - H4, H1, etc., etc... seems they dont signify the holder type, but bulb construction. Am I right? I really have no idea what type of halogen the Oram is. It dosent seem mentioned on the box. Actually, the base of the ordinary bulb can be seen in the pic. I guess its not H4... and I guess H4s are found only on the latest bikes. The box mentions "Product: P15D-25-3. Dunno if that signifies the type of bulb or whatever...

2) Not tried the +60... the shop didn't have it... not for the Shogun's holder. In Halonix, he only had M5 something... (made in 2004). The illumination of that bulb was pathetic as I mentioned earlier.

3) Playing around is is what I'm patrefied about. Even while I thought nothing much can go wrong while just changing the bulb, the mech at the shop broke one of the screws and part of it is wedged inside the headlight assy. The less they get their sloppy hands on my bike the better... else I have to figure out how to do it myself.

5) Fakes scare me a lot... and I don't know if I will be able to make out the difference. Seems Halonix does not have authorised dealers from whom I can get a genuine product.

I will inqure about the cost and feasibality of fitting a Pulsar or Samurai assy.
1) Yes, they signify the bulb construction.
2) +60 are better. M5 are disasters. Tried M5 in caliber.
3 and 5) Yes, nothing is as good as DIY. Yes it will take a bit of planning and time, but once done, it will be the best you can do for your bike.
Yes Halonix does not have official dealers. I learnt this the hard way round. After spotting a board of +60, I bought three +60 from them, one for my spirit, one for sister's spirit and one for caliber. All of them were worst I have ever seen. I had changed around 6 bulbs in caliber before settling in for a M800 ( 1992 ) +60 bulb.

Check this out for HS1 and H4 : Phoenixlamps: Automotive
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2009, 17:55   #19
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bangalore / Madras
Posts: 1,980
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

If you can get hold of a Samurai / MAX 100 headlight assembly, and don't mind the altered looks, go for it. The Samurai / MAX 100 headlight has superb beam spread and throw.

Try this before you decide to change the assembly / bulb.
The OEM assembly is designed for the OEM regular bulb. Now, a halogen in this assembly means the filament is not exactly where it should be. This involves lot of trial and error but you can actually move the bulb (after fitting) deeper inside the holder. Move it a few mm in and then see the beam. This is painful because each time you'll have to put the holder back and screw the assembly back but it is worth it in the end if you get the placement right.

I went through the same bewilderment as you when I switched to halogens on the KB125 but was able to achieve good results with this trial and error. And remember, even a 35/35W halogen will give you good results if aligned properly within the assembly.
hrag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2009, 18:15   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag View Post
If you can get hold of a Samurai / MAX 100 headlight assembly, and don't mind the altered looks, go for it. The Samurai / MAX 100 headlight has superb beam spread and throw.

Try this before you decide to change the assembly / bulb.
The OEM assembly is designed for the OEM regular bulb. Now, a halogen in this assembly means the filament is not exactly where it should be. This involves lot of trial and error but you can actually move the bulb (after fitting) deeper inside the holder. Move it a few mm in and then see the beam. This is painful because each time you'll have to put the holder back and screw the assembly back but it is worth it in the end if you get the placement right.
Is the Samurai/Max 100 assembly clear lens type i.e. multi focal reflector ( MFR ) ?
If yes, then the adjustment will have to be done as per your trick. Sometimes a few bends in the holder have to be made.
But if the assembly is not MFR, then the setting will be easy as only the lens will need adjustment.

Now if the factory fitted bulb is HS1 and one is putting in H4, then IMO there is very little deviation, so no tricks have to be played around either with reflector or holder as the overall output will not be much different.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2009, 22:37   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: goa
Posts: 1,066
Thanked: 52 Times
Default

hey Racoon, if you are really looking to improving the light efficiency of the shogun , you need to do something about the seal beam, or else what ever you do will be just modification that you will not like. If you want to keep the looks, get a decent Halogen from MICO/bosch, and thats it. what ever you get get out of it is what you'll get from any other bulb, even the pricy once, period.
dinar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th February 2009, 02:05   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) Yes, they signify the bulb construction.
2) +60 are better. M5 are disasters. Tried M5 in caliber.
3 and 5) Yes, nothing is as good as DIY. Yes it will take a bit of planning and time, but once done, it will be the best you can do for your bike.
Yes Halonix does not have official dealers. I learnt this the hard way round. After spotting a board of +60, I bought three +60 from them, one for my spirit, one for sister's spirit and one for caliber. All of them were worst I have ever seen. I had changed around 6 bulbs in caliber before settling in for a M800 ( 1992 ) +60 bulb.

Check this out for HS1 and H4 : Phoenixlamps: Automotive
So you think those 6 bulbs were fakes?? And you could not tell in any way that they were fakes before buying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag View Post
If you can get hold of a Samurai / MAX 100 headlight assembly, and don't mind the altered looks, go for it. The Samurai / MAX 100 headlight has superb beam spread and throw.

Try this before you decide to change the assembly / bulb.
The OEM assembly is designed for the OEM regular bulb. Now, a halogen in this assembly means the filament is not exactly where it should be. This involves lot of trial and error but you can actually move the bulb (after fitting) deeper inside the holder. Move it a few mm in and then see the beam. This is painful because each time you'll have to put the holder back and screw the assembly back but it is worth it in the end if you get the placement right.

I went through the same bewilderment as you when I switched to halogens on the KB125 but was able to achieve good results with this trial and error. And remember, even a 35/35W halogen will give you good results if aligned properly within the assembly.
Don't really like the looks of the big round Samurai assy. Also it dosen't really blend with the Shogun curves/design and its rectangular indicators. But I may not have a choice. Isn't the Max100 headlight rectangular? That might look better. But I guess getting it will be a bigger problem as the bike went out of production before the Samurai (correct me if I'm wrong, please).

I don't understand how its possible to move the blub inside the assy. I saw no such adjustment mechanism when I opened the assy to install the Osram bulb. Could you please elaborate? Also, I'm not sure if this will be productive, as the current Osram bulb focuses the beam right in front of the bike... but the problem is its just not bright enough... barely ok for moderate speed city use... and no real improvement over the ordinary non-halogen bulb.... as far as I can tell. Also the Shogun's assy. is not MFR... so is this "theory" still valid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinar View Post
hey Racoon, if you are really looking to improving the light efficiency of the shogun , you need to do something about the seal beam, or else what ever you do will be just modification that you will not like. If you want to keep the looks, get a decent Halogen from MICO/bosch, and thats it. what ever you get get out of it is what you'll get from any other bulb, even the pricy once, period.
What exactly would you mean by the "seal beam"? Do you mean the headlight assembly? And again my question - have you found the MICO/Bosch bulb better than other brands of halogen bulbs? If not, I'll just be wasting the $ and time with it... and might as well live with the Osram I have.

Thanks so much for the responses, everybody!
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th February 2009, 08:16   #23
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bangalore / Madras
Posts: 1,980
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

There is no adjustment mechanism as such. But you can move the bulb inside the holder with some gentle force applied. Try it but don't use too much force. By the way, dinar is right, get a MICO halogen bulb - these work best for the old gen strokers.
hrag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th February 2009, 08:54   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
1) So you think those 6 bulbs were fakes?? And you could not tell in any way that they were fakes before buying?

2) I don't understand how its possible to move the blub inside the assy. I saw no such adjustment mechanism when I opened the assy to install the Osram bulb. Could you please elaborate? Also, I'm not sure if this will be productive, as the current Osram bulb focuses the beam right in front of the bike... but the problem is its just not bright enough... barely ok for moderate speed city use... and no real improvement over the ordinary non-halogen bulb.... as far as I can tell. Also the Shogun's assy. is not MFR... so is this "theory" still valid?



3) What exactly would you mean by the "seal beam"? Do you mean the headlight assembly? And again my question - have you found the MICO/Bosch bulb better than other brands of halogen bulbs? If not, I'll just be wasting the $ and time with it... and might as well live with the Osram I have.
1) Dont tell anyone, but yes, I was cheated most of the times.
There were no clues of knowing that the bulb is fake or not. I was tired of finding a good one, ended up wasting money. So went in for M800 bulb that was good.

2) Actually its not much big a thing. Depends upon holder. What can also be done is a bit of bending of the bulb base and some modifications in the holder itself. The messing up with bulb is not recommended. Hrag is also correct, but I was too mechanical is doing the things. I got exactly what I wanted with the bending and using force. Its tricky to handle the bulb and utmost care must be taken.

Now if its not MFR, the first thing you must try is adjusting the lens. If this does not work out, then go on to work with hrag's trick. If that does not work out, last option is to take pliers and do bending job. This must be the last resort and needs carful calculations. One wrong move and the thing you are tyring to work upon can be rendered useless.

Again dont tell any one but I broke on bulb which was fake and I tried to extract the best.

3) Sealed beam has reflector and filament as one single assembly and the lens is sealed. No worry about dust entering, etc. Long before in AutoIndia I read that one person had installed 55W sealed beam from some bus. I am not sure what are the exact rating for truck and bus sealed beams wether is 110WX2 or its 55WX2.
If you are able to find out if the bus/truck sealed beam headlight is 55W, then its good to install this unit. It comes in rectangular shape.

I had tried MICO bulb in Spirit, but its not good. Mostly I got a fake. I have read positive reviews about them. Go to official mico store and you will get original.

Now my Zeus has HS1 Halonix +60 and i want more intensity, so I am looking for upgrade. I will be following this thread.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th February 2009, 09:38   #25
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bangalore / Madras
Posts: 1,980
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
2) Actually its not much big a thing. Depends upon holder. What can also be done is a bit of bending of the bulb base and some modifications in the holder itself. The messing up with bulb is not recommended. Hrag is also correct, but I was too mechanical is doing the things. I got exactly what I wanted with the bending and using force. Its tricky to handle the bulb and utmost care must be taken.

Now if its not MFR, the first thing you must try is adjusting the lens. If this does not work out, then go on to work with hrag's trick. If that does not work out, last option is to take pliers and do bending job. This must be the last resort and needs carful calculations. One wrong move and the thing you are tyring to work upon can be rendered useless.

Again dont tell any one but I broke on bulb which was fake and I tried to extract the best.
The parts highlighted in bold are exactly what should NOT be done.
hrag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th February 2009, 15:49   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag View Post
The parts highlighted in bold are exactly what should NOT be done.

Agree with you on all parts but the adjusting the lens. I was talking about the final glass that actually focuses the beam on the road. This will have to be done first before touching anything else. Generally this will help a lot. If this does not help, the other parts you have highlighted have to be executed.
I have already mentioned that these bending jobs are last resorts and must be done with proper calculations.
I had to do these things to get what I want.
aaggoswami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th February 2009, 18:57   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: goa
Posts: 1,066
Thanked: 52 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post


What exactly would you mean by the "seal beam"? Do you mean the headlight assembly? And again my question - have you found the MICO/Bosch bulb better than other brands of halogen bulbs? If not, I'll just be wasting the $ and time with it... and might as well live with the Osram I have.

Thanks so much for the responses, everybody!
A seal beam is the reflector assembly including the glass. you can do what ever you want ,but till you get some new [better ] reflector [or the whole] assembly, you may put a bulb worth XXX and will not get satisfied. As I said , I have tried a lot of configuration but went back to the original as I wanted to keep it that way and used a Mico 35/35 watt bulb halogen and it worked better than the stock with everything original [and you can pick it up at any MICO outlet, use to be RS 110/- now may be some more]. at most you may try using some new extra bright bulb[ +60 or what ever] , but the spread of the beam will be disappointing. If you expect it to do wonder to the light. The only adjustment possible is the up down movement of the head light assembly.

Last edited by dinar : 24th February 2009 at 19:05.
dinar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th February 2009, 20:18   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag View Post
There is no adjustment mechanism as such. But you can move the bulb inside the holder with some gentle force applied. Try it but don't use too much force. By the way, dinar is right, get a MICO halogen bulb - these work best for the old gen strokers.
I really don't think there is any way to to "move the bulb inside the holder with some gentle force applied". The bulb is just to be pressed (the 3 metal projections have to go in the 3 grooves), and the bulb has to be twisted. Then the bulb holder is slotted into the lens assy. and twisted. Thats it. Will check again when I open it, but I'm pretty sure there dosen't seem to be any other way the blub can be fixed or moved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinar View Post
A seal beam is the reflector assembly including the glass. you can do what ever you want ,but till you get some new [better ] reflector [or the whole] assembly, you may put a bulb worth XXX and will not get satisfied. As I said , I have tried a lot of configuration but went back to the original as I wanted to keep it that way and used a Mico 35/35 watt bulb halogen and it worked better than the stock with everything original [and you can pick it up at any MICO outlet, use to be RS 110/- now may be some more]. at most you may try using some new extra bright bulb[ +60 or what ever] , but the spread of the beam will be disappointing. If you expect it to do wonder to the light. The only adjustment possible is the up down movement of the head light assembly.
1) As for the sealed assy. I just noticed that there as some small spots on the inner side of the glass! :( Now how does that happen in a sealed assembly? Strange! While it isn't much, I guess it must be affecting the light output to a very small extent. Is there any way at all I can clean the inner side of the glass?

2) You have adviced to get a better reflector. Is it possible the change just the reflector... or do you mean changing the whole headlight assembly?

3) Yes, the up and down movement of the headlight assembly seems to be the only possible adjustment that can be done. And it is correctly adjusted, of course.

4) I guess I will try to buy a MICO bulb from an authorised dealer. But I'm bit sceptical about it being better than the Osram.... anyway, cant say without trying. If it costs more than Rs. 110, I guess its prolly the most expensive one in the market. All the brands I saw are priced in the range of 60 - 70 bucks.


Does anybody know if the MAX 100 headlight assy. is rectangular or square? And btw, I asked my TVS dealer about Samurai/Max100 headlight assy. Was told there is no chance of getting a genuine one with them. He said try in the outside market. The supervisor said that its quite possible to fit a Samurai headlight If I can get it, without any real mods.

Aaggoswami, seems you have been ripped off multiple times! Lol! Mebbe you should have just gone to a authorised Bosh dealer for their bulbs. At least you would have tried the genuine thing.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th February 2009, 02:28   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Here are a couple of pics I took tonight. The pics are barely indicative. My cell isn't good at taking night time pics. But I guess these will give you some idea about the focus.

Pic is of the low beam. Sorry could not take a proper one of the high beam.

The bulb is of course the Osram halogen I mentioned earlier (pic of box posted earlier).
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Raccoon : 25th February 2009 at 02:30.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th February 2009, 08:08   #30
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bangalore / Madras
Posts: 1,980
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
I really don't think there is any way to to "move the bulb inside the holder with some gentle force applied". The bulb is just to be pressed (the 3 metal projections have to go in the 3 grooves), and the bulb has to be twisted. Then the bulb holder is slotted into the lens assy. and twisted. Thats it. Will check again when I open it, but I'm pretty sure there dosen't seem to be any other way the blub can be fixed or moved.
You are on the right track. However, before screwing the bulb into the holder, take a look at the back of the holder (where the wires go in) - you should be able to see a cork like piece. Now you can move this piece forward with gentle force (screwdriver) inserted through the wiring hole. Or move it back using the same gentle force from the front (with the bulb removed). This movement I'm referring to is in mm but makes a world of difference when fitting non OEM bulbs. If in doubt, do not attempt as a little extra force than required might result in breaking the holder.

Your pictures are of low beam?- the light needs to be more rectangular in shape. High beam should be a very similar rectangle shape higher up.

What's the light on the console? High beam or Neutral?

Last edited by hrag : 25th February 2009 at 08:13.
hrag is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High beam halogen for Skoda Superb V6 TDI indra_slk Modifications & Accessories 6 22nd October 2015 21:19
Best tyres for Suzuki Shogun? Raccoon Motorbikes 82 1st May 2009 15:29
Product Review: Philips Crystal Vision Halogen headlamps Rtech Modifications & Accessories 308 13th March 2007 13:38
Do we need to change the Halogen headlights often ? mithun Technical Stuff 8 11th December 2006 19:39


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:46.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks