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Old 2nd March 2009, 15:35   #1
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Default About motorcycle oil filters; esp. HH CBZ-Xtreme

I have an important query regarding oil filters in Indian Motorcycles. And specifically about the Hero Honda CBZ-Xtreme.

It seems most Indian bikes don't come with externally changable oil filters, like we have in cars. You have to open the engine cover after removing the kick starter, cables and what not...

Now, Hero Honda (for CBZ-x) recommends cleaning the oil strainer screen and centrifugal filter after the 1st 500 km and thereafter every 6,000 km. After observing and asking, it was very clear that service centres... or at least most service centres dont do this. When I grilled them about this at the 1st free service, I was empathically told by the supervisor that the filter does not need cleaning so early... definitely not in the 1st 500 km (which is supposed to be the most important for most vehicles as its supposed to catch metal debris, etc).

After this, I have asked people like workshop managers, etc., and have been told that the filter hardly catches very litlle dirt (assuming that you don't introduce any dirt in the system yourself); and really does not need cleaning so often.

One Workshop Manager, after cornering him, told me that though the strainer screen and centrifugal filter should technically be cleaned, they are forced to not do so dude to practical reasons - like customers who are not at all knowledgible about bikes fighting tooth and nail with them regarding expenses incurred in the cleaning, like the cover gasket expense, etc. They expect all this to be done for free, in the period of free services. He quoted a couple of other practical reasons. He further said that some customers even fight with them about the cost of the engine oil, and expect it to be free in free servicing. To avoid all these regular fights, etc., they dispense with stuff thats not absolutely essential.

As is obvious, one cant really believe these guys. Nor can I say I disbelieve them as the reasons given are not exactly fictitious.

Now my question is, does the strainer screen and centrifugal filter of HH CBZ-X really need cleaning as per the manual... or has the company taken the worst case scenario and recommended a more agressive cleaning routine?

Has somebody actually seen the amount of dirt collected when cleaning these things after X km? Also is the screen very fine, or does it just catch just visible particles?

I really don't want to have it cleaned as I belive the less my machines are touched by clumsy mechanic hands, the better it is.

Lastly, is there any difference between a strainer screen and an oil filter?

I would suggest all bikers to consider this issue as it seems most service centers don't clean these screens/filters as per schedule as it is bit tedious and time consuming.

Last edited by Raccoon : 2nd March 2009 at 15:39.
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Old 3rd March 2009, 14:38   #2
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Not a single reply regarding this very important issue?? :(
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Old 3rd March 2009, 14:51   #3
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It should be strainer , like a mosquito net (its a hard plastic one , not replaceable , just inspect and put it back ) . Pulsar also has this oil strainer located behind the clutch . It takes a lot of bolts to be removed to clean this . Its better to clean it in the mentioned interval , but I have not cleaned it from like say atleat 15-20 K kms , its ok . But they should clean it up . Otherwise get it done from outside .
Bike service and warranty is a joke here .So dont take it to heart .

Last edited by black12rr : 3rd March 2009 at 14:53.
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Old 4th March 2009, 13:02   #4
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The oil filter in the Apache and the RTR is placed in a very accessible spot. Refer to the pics below.

Name:  oil.JPG
Views: 16790
Size:  19.3 KB

You gotta drain the oil before attempting to remove the oil filter.
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Old 4th March 2009, 15:33   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black12rr View Post
It should be strainer , like a mosquito net (its a hard plastic one , not replaceable , just inspect and put it back ) . Pulsar also has this oil strainer located behind the clutch . It takes a lot of bolts to be removed to clean this . Its better to clean it in the mentioned interval , but I have not cleaned it from like say atleat 15-20 K kms , its ok . But they should clean it up . Otherwise get it done from outside .
Bike service and warranty is a joke here .So dont take it to heart .
Like a mosquito net? Then I guess its not very fine. And so I guess it wont be catching any metal powder/debris in a new bike like mine? And is it plastic or metal?? I think its metal (not sure though). I dont think a plastic will be able to withstand the temprature inside the crankcase.

In your case, are you saying the filter has never been cleaning... and your bike has covered 15-20 k Km or you have covered 15 - 20 km since the last time you cleaned it?

Any idea about the centrifugal filter? Any idea what it does, how it works or why is it required when the strainer is there?

My bike has done some 2,800 km... and the filter has not been cleaned. I want to get it done in front of me... but the 2 Hero Honda service centres I approched are not at all co-operative. And they cant do anything right on their own either! Hero Honda's service and attitude has really deteriorated...

Maybe I should get this somewhere else... maybe Castrol Bike Zone... Do they let you watch while they do the job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sai_ace View Post
The oil filter in the Apache and the RTR is placed in a very accessible spot. Refer to the pics below.

Attachment 107677

You gotta drain the oil before attempting to remove the oil filter.
That seems nice! So you only need to open those 3 screws to get to it? I dunno why H Honda has kept it in such an inaccessible place!

Last edited by Raccoon : 4th March 2009 at 15:36.
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Old 6th March 2009, 15:56   #6
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Raccoon, here's the picture of a centrifugal filter. Hope it helps.

About motorcycle oil filters; esp. HH CBZ-Xtreme-centrifugal-filter.jpg
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Old 6th March 2009, 17:16   #7
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^^^Thanks a lot dude, though it was brief, that sure did help a lot!

May I know what book is that? And which bike is featured? Is it a workshop manual?
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Old 6th March 2009, 18:16   #8
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I got that image from another forum that i visit. Anyways here's a CRF230's centrifugal filter. Centrifugal filter's main components are 6, 9 & 5 and small parts that fall in between.
About motorcycle oil filters; esp. HH CBZ-Xtreme-14kps3e1_kps4e0700a.gif

And to see how much crud can get into a centrifugal filter look at this.
About motorcycle oil filters; esp. HH CBZ-Xtreme-changeoil_centrifugal2.jpg

Source: Dan's Motorcycle "Change your oil"
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Old 7th March 2009, 17:58   #9
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^^^Thanks a heap dude! That really helped!!

But hardly anybody else has posted... it seems nobody bothers getting motorcycle filters cleaned. Neither service centres seem to be cleaning them as per schedul, nor are most owners concerned...
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Old 7th March 2009, 23:29   #10
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dude for my unicorn too there is a mesh that is located inside the cover, where i have marked in the pic of RTR,

i am guessing the Xtreme would have the same ask the mechanic to open the cover and show you the mesh, it filters the metal chips actually, apart from the centrifugal filter i guess.

saw it this time when i got my clutch plates changed on my unicorn.

as per the answer to your question, mate, i had completely worn out clutch plates due to some blah blah things i did on my bike, after 10000kms there was enough grinded metal chips in my mesh filter i had to replace it too.

well using 20 W 50 Grade oil from a good brand in our country for the bike should minimize all this wear and tear and you should comfortably be able to open the engine and check the for all the chips every 6000-8000Kms, if some one loves their bike so much they can do this.

and changing the oil in say every 1500-2000 kms depending on how bad the oil would mean lesser deposits.

WELL as the final answer is check out the deposits every 6K-8K kms and do these oil interval changes would ensure your bike a much better health.

and yes the manufacturer's recommendation is not wrong, like you said the service centers just dont do this to avoid the hassle with every customer.
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Last edited by rider60 : 7th March 2009 at 23:36.
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Old 8th March 2009, 17:17   #11
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^^^Rider60, thanks so much for your valuable input!

Problem with getting the mech to show me anything is that the 2 Hero Honda *** are not ready to co-operate on letting me watch the bike being serviced. They want to do everything in secrecy... when they cant even do the simplest things right. So gotta find a way to get it done my way... or maybe will consider getting it done somewhere else.

HH recommends cleaning the mesh and centrifugal filter at the 1st service and thereafter every 6,000 km. Dunno if thats really required... and I'm not comfy about removing the crankcase cover and all every 6,000 km! Anyway, my bike has done some 2,900 km... and these things have never been cleaned. So I better get it done soon, I guess.

Dude, HH recommends 10W30 oil in all conditions. So I better stick to the same. Its supposed to last 6,000 km. Dunno if it really performs well for so long. Currently using Gulf Pride 4T of the same viscosity. It definitely seems better than the HH Idemitsu oil.
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Old 8th March 2009, 20:47   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
HH recommends cleaning the mesh and centrifugal filter at the 1st service and thereafter every 6,000 km. Dunno if thats really required... and I'm not comfy about removing the crankcase cover and all every 6,000 km! Anyway, my bike has done some 2,900 km... and these things have never been cleaned. So I better get it done soon, I guess.

Dude, HH recommends 10W30 oil in all conditions. So I better stick to the same. Its supposed to last 6,000 km. Dunno if it really performs well for so long. Currently using Gulf Pride 4T of the same viscosity. It definitely seems better than the HH Idemitsu oil.
It's a stupid design by Honda to have to remove the clutch case every 6000kms to clean the filter. You can wait till 6000kms to get that filter cleaned.

You will get Castrol Power1 in 10W30, better than Gulf. The 10W30 power1 comes only in 900ml packs, the right quantity for HH bikes. 10W40 power1 comes only in 1 liter pack.
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Old 8th March 2009, 21:45   #13
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Dudes what HH recommends is for AAM junta (general public) dont go by that use the 20W50 Grade Shell oil in the summers and 15W40 or 10W30 in the winters and your bike should be fine.

as per the service center guys acting up dont bother going to that service center go to another where they would let you watch it get serviced.

although its a stupid design its built for the masses, do get it servied every 6000 kms removing and putting the case back by a Vetern mechanic would not do any harm at the most you might end up buying new SEAL thats all. Go ahead and do this and use the better oils for lesser WEAR and TEAR so that next time you open the crank case you will notice lesser deposits mate.

cheers.
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Old 8th March 2009, 22:07   #14
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i some how missed this
my zma has done 60k kms and i have got the centrifugal filter cleaned twice or maximum thrice.
i think i need to get it done,need to change clutch plates as well
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Old 9th March 2009, 02:15   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
It's a stupid design by Honda to have to remove the clutch case every 6000kms to clean the filter. You can wait till 6000kms to get that filter cleaned.

You will get Castrol Power1 in 10W30, better than Gulf. The 10W30 power1 comes only in 900ml packs, the right quantity for HH bikes. 10W40 power1 comes only in 1 liter pack.
Very stupid design! Esp. in the Indian context... where sloppy mechanics will make 100 scratches and very likely do something else wrong too!

Are you sure Castrol 10W30 is better than Gulf Oil?? Have you tried both and compared? The Gulf oil seems really good. The bike has become smoother and accelerates better than before! Couple of other friends I have also like the Gulf oil a lot! I am comparing this with the Hero Honda Idemitsu oil. It is also an extended drain period oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rider60 View Post
Dudes what HH recommends is for AAM junta (general public) dont go by that use the 20W50 Grade Shell oil in the summers and 15W40 or 10W30 in the winters and your bike should be fine.

as per the service center guys acting up dont bother going to that service center go to another where they would let you watch it get serviced.

although its a stupid design its built for the masses, do get it servied every 6000 kms removing and putting the case back by a Vetern mechanic would not do any harm at the most you might end up buying new SEAL thats all. Go ahead and do this and use the better oils for lesser WEAR and TEAR so that next time you open the crank case you will notice lesser deposits mate.



cheers.
Didn't get this logic of HH recommending 10W30 for the masses. Could you please justify? Also, AFAIK Shell does not make any 20W50 oil for bikes. Their only oil for bikes, Shell Advance S4 is 20W40.

As for the service centre guys acting up, there is no other authorised HH service centre anywhere around my area. Thats the problem. Hero Honda's service seems to have gone to the dogs. My dealer's service centre (Automark Motors, Pune) is the worst experience I'v had at any service centre (car or bike). Not only was their work EXTREMELY sloppy, they are also crafty. No way I'm gonna give them my bike unless I'm present right in front of it, when its done.

As for the veteran mechanic part... that of course is VERY desirable... but I have no idea where to find one... and one that has all the equipment. I'm considering the Castrol Bike zone in my area... but dont have any reports on how good it is. I just hope they will let me watch when they do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
i some how missed this
my zma has done 60k kms and i have got the centrifugal filter cleaned twice or maximum thrice.
i think i need to get it done,need to change clutch plates as well
How much gunk did you notice when you cleaned these filters? I'm assuming you were present when it was done...

Last edited by Raccoon : 9th March 2009 at 02:25.
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