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Old 17th June 2015, 00:28   #1726
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Sorry for deviating from the ongoing discussion.

I have an RE Classic 350.I want to know if the idling speed has any bearing on how easy will it be to kickstart a motorcycle.During a recent service mechanic adjusted the idle rpm setting brass screw to 3 turns.The electric start was fine as usual, but,the bike had to be kicked a number of times to bring it to life and the engine fired up as if on a life support system. However, this was not the case when the Idle rpm was set at 5 -5.5 turns of the brass screw.The bike would start effortlessly after first kick.

Now,I have again set the idle rpm at 4.5 turns. since, I don't have a tachometer, therefore,I wish to know if 4.5 turns setting is okay or too high vis -a- vis the recommended idle speed of 1050+ (-)200rpm.

I reside at an altitude of 7000ft. where temperature fluctuates between 15 C - 30 C during summers. Kindly,guide me in adjusting the right idle speed with the help of Brass screw.( number of turns).

Also, regardless of the temperature, I invariably use choke for almost half a minute. Is this a good practice? Should not it harm a cold engine as the rpm rises while the choke is on.??
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Old 17th June 2015, 15:30   #1727
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I own a Thunderbird 500 which is coming up on its 9 month anniversary. For the past two months I've been facing a problem starting the bike.

At first it refused to auto-start unless it was first warmed-up for at least 3-5 minutes (after that it would start fine unless the engine is left off for more than 4-6 hours). It was also difficult to kick-start the bike to get it warmed up in the first place even leading me to push start the bike on several occasions. Since the bike was under warranty I took it to Kings Auto (Baner, Pune) where to no surprise it started up on the first attempt using auto-start (since the bike was warmed up on the ride there). They kept the bike for a couple of hours and returned it saying that the problem was due to the battery charge being low - not a surprise to me since I had tried to auto-start it multiple times that morning before trying to kick-start it and finally push-start it. They charged the battery and the bike did auto-start and kick-start fine.

Within the week, the original problem re-occurred and I took the bike back to Kings Auto where I insisted that they keep the bike overnight and try to start it in the morning. This time they said that "Yes. It is difficult to start it when cold, but all RE 500cc models have this issue". After I insisted they troubleshoot it further, they replaced the spark plugs (~ Rs. 650) and the problem did seem to get resolved.

After about 3 weeks, the problem began starting up again, though not as severely as before. I was fed up with the runaround given to me by Kings auto and took the bike to the other A.S.S. convenient to me - Brahma Motors (Wakdewadi, Pune). After keeping the bike the whole day, the engineer (who seemed to be more customer-friendly than the previous guy) said that they couldn't find anything wrong other than the battery charge being low and the connections to the battery terminals being slightly loose. As usual, the problem did seem to get resolved.

It's now about another 3 weeks and the issue has cropped up again (admittedly just once since the last visit to the A.S.S.) and I'm getting very irritated about the matter and am looking to get a fix - either from the A.S.S. or from a FNG.

My questions here are -
  1. Does anybody have any idea about the cause of the issue?
  2. Shouldn't the kick start work even if the battery is completely drained? The service engineer at the A.S.S. claimed otherwise.
  3. When starting from a completely cold state (e.g. in the morning), the bike idles at 900-1000 rpm. However, after a 20 minute ride the idling sometimes can go as high as 1500 rpm. Is this normal?

For what it's worth, here are some of my riding habits that might help diagnose the issue
  • If the bike has been off for more than 2 hours, I warm up the engine for a minimum of 2 minutes
  • I don't lug the engine (revs are always kept above 1500 rpm except while idling)
  • My daily commute is about 9km each way
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Old 17th June 2015, 17:42   #1728
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivtho View Post
Shouldn't the kick start work even if the battery is completely drained?
My Thunderbird 500 used to hibernate for more than a month every now and then. After I reunite with my bird, when I try the self-starter, it won't work with the battery icon flashing on the instrument panel, indicating weak battery. At that time, I resort to kick-starting. My bird used to start in the very first kick-starting without any issue. Of course, after riding for a few km, the battery will get charged and I used to self-start after that. After a coupla days, the flashing of battery icon will also stop. I have faced this situation many times, but I can't help it as I would be out of station frequently with my bird going into hibernation.

Quote:
When starting from a completely cold state (e.g. in the morning), the bike idles at 900-1000 rpm. However, after a 20 minute ride the idling sometimes can go as high as 1500 rpm. Is this normal?
No, it is not normal. It should always be in the range of 900 - 1,000 rpm range. After cold-starting, it should rev more, and then, settle at 900 rpm.

Last edited by J.Ravi : 17th June 2015 at 17:46.
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Old 17th June 2015, 23:46   #1729
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

All of the fuel injected motorcycles (not just Royal Enfield) require at least some charge in the battery to start.

For the fuel injector to work properly, the fuel pump must receive enough electrical power to pressurize the system to it's working pressure which is about 294 Kpa (42.6 psi, 2.94 bar).
This may make it impossible to kick start the engine if the battery power is too low to run the fuel pump.

A large number of people have found the OEM twin electrode spark plug may make starting difficult.
Changing it to a single electrode, standard type spark plug like a NGK BPR6ES, Autolite 63, DENSO W20EPR-U, Champion RN9YC, or Bosch WR7D may vastly improve starting and running on these engines.

When selecting a replacement spark plug it is important to inspect the electrical connector at the top of the ceramic insulator. The metal cap MUST BE REMOVABLE if it is to be used with the existing spark plug wire and cap.
To be removable, the cap is screwed onto a threaded stud.

The Royal Enfield spark plug cap requires the maiting spark plug to have the small threaded stud. It will not work properly with the large metal cap that are on most spark plugs. If you buy one of these other spark plugs, be sure to unscrew the cap before installing the plug in the engine. This can easily be done with a pair of pliers.

I'm sure you all are using the Bi-Start lever on the left handlebar when your starting your cold engine. If you are not, move the lever fully to its stop before attempting to start the bike.

IMO, allowing the engine to idle at speeds of 900-1000 rpm, with the headlight on, will run your battery down.

The Royal Enfield alternator only produces enough electrical power to actually charge the battery if the engine speed is above 2000 rpm.
Because of this, I am not a big fan of letting the engine idle for long periods of time after it first starts unless the temperature is below 7.2 C.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 17th June 2015 at 23:48.
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Old 18th June 2015, 18:39   #1730
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Guys,

Question about the shocks. I own a 98 Machismo 350 which use to come with normal shocks. I have few questions.

1. Are gas filled shocks straight fit on older bikes?
2. What are the best hydraulic shocks for RE?

-Ijeet
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Old 18th June 2015, 19:32   #1731
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijeet View Post
Guys,

Question about the shocks. I own a 98 Machismo 350 which use to come with normal shocks. I have few questions.

1. Are gas filled shocks straight fit on older bikes?
2. What are the best hydraulic shocks for RE?

-Ijeet
1. Yes, the gas filled are a direct fit, but they would raise the distance between rear mud guard and tyre. Just make sure you get the chain readjusted accordingly
2. As for the best hydraulic shocks for RE, just stick to the Endurance OEM, they do a fine job.
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Old 18th June 2015, 22:32   #1732
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Since my previous query remains unanswered, I'm going to rephrase it.

How many turns should Idle rpm screw (Brass screw) have to attain the recommended rpm of 1050 +_ 200 rpm.

I have a classic 350 and, currently, I have set the Idle screw at 4.5 turns. Is it fine.?
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Old 18th June 2015, 23:46   #1733
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

There is no fixed number of turns on the brass screw which is "best" or will set the idle rpm to a known speed for your motorcycle. It may be 3, 4, 5 or some other value.

I can say, a idle speed of 1050 is NOT the slow speed many Indian people like to hear as their motorcycle sits there going THUMP, THUMP, THUMP. It is noticeably faster than that.

As you know, there are actually two screws that need to be adjusted to properly set up the idle speed.
There is the throttle stop screw that directly controls the speed and there is the pilot air screw which controls the air/fuel mixture ratio.

A change on either one of these screws will change the idle speed so they need to be adjusted, one after the other to obtain the best idle and the best starting.

The procedure to follow is to first warm up the engine. You cannot adjust the idle settings properly if the engine is cold.

Adjust the pilot air adjustment screw in, just until you feel it stop. Do NOT force it.
Now, unscrew the pilot air adjustment screw out 1 1/2 turns.

Now, start the engine.

Turn the brass throttle stop screw so that the engine is running slightly faster than the desired idle speed. This is about 1300 rpm but don't worry about the exact speed.

With the engine idling at this faster speed, unscrew the pilot air adjustment screw to obtain the fastest idle speed possible. If you go too far, the engine will begin to slow down. If this happens, turn the screw back to obtain the fastest idle speed.

Now, unscrew the throttle stop screw to return the engine to the desired idle speed.

Now, once again, adjust the pilot air adjustment screw to again increase the engine speed to the fastest idle possible.

Then, adjust the throttle stop screw by unscrewing it to obtain the final idle speed. Without a tachometer this speed must be "played by ear".

The final speed won't be a THUMP, THUMP, THUMP, but it also will not sound like the engine is running really fast.

With both screws set at their optimum positions your motorcycle should start easily.

It is not unusual for the engine, while running with the choke applied to speed up a bit after it starts.

I hope this helps to answer your questions.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 18th June 2015 at 23:48.
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Old 19th June 2015, 11:17   #1734
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Hello folks, just wanted a quick check on this. I am looking for a cast iron 500 cc and came across this bike that is up for sale having a five speed gear box (similar to the 5s that was in the Electra). Just wanted to know if RE did actually release the 500 CI with a five speed box? Thanks and Regards, Rajesh
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Old 19th June 2015, 13:44   #1735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj981 View Post
Hello folks, just wanted a quick check on this. I am looking for a cast iron 500 cc and came across this bike that is up for sale having a five speed gear box (similar to the 5s that was in the Electra). Just wanted to know if RE did actually release the 500 CI with a five speed box? Thanks and Regards, Rajesh
They did not. It was only the Machismo 500 that had the 5sp gearbox and now the UCE.

The 5sp gearbox on the 500 will be a good change from the 4sp though, if the operation was done well.

Last edited by tharian : 19th June 2015 at 13:46.
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Old 19th June 2015, 22:41   #1736
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I hope this helps to answer your questions.
Yes it does. Thanks a lot. Informative as always.

Spare some time for another query. Why the owner's manual advises to use electric start in cold condition of the engine or for initial start.
Will kick starting a cold engine or during initial start harm the motorcycle in any way.?? Afterall there are motorcycles which are only kickstart.
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Old 20th June 2015, 01:10   #1737
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

IMO, the electric starter will have less of a chance of "kick back" if it is used to start a cold engine.

While "kick back" won't harm a motorcycle that does not have an electric starter on it, it can damage the sprag clutch on a motorcycle that does have an electric starter.

Of course, this all is said with the understanding that the battery is in good condition and fully charged.
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Old 25th June 2015, 10:46   #1738
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Hello everyone. I need some advice.
I'm planning to pick up a second hand Enfield which I intend to keep for about an year. Now, I've heard a lot about the maintenance issues with regards to the Enfields and would like to know which one I should look for (it's need to have a disc brake and electric start). Budget is around a Lakh.
Thanks.
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Old 25th June 2015, 11:07   #1739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidVenugopal View Post
I'm planning to pick up a second hand Enfield which I intend to keep for about an year. Now, I've heard a lot about the maintenance issues with regards to the Enfields and would like to know which one I should look for (it's need to have a disc brake and electric start). Budget is around a Lakh.
Thanks.
Any Enfield you pick will need periodic maintenance. One just needs to take it to the mechanic to get it resolved. At times it can't be driven to the mechanic and the mechanic needs to be driven to the bullet. And some repairs can't be carried out outside the workshop, and in such cases, Enfield needs to be towed to the workshop.

These are not the Japanese fill it, shut it, forget it motorcycles. Your query on maintenance is not very clear to me.

Regarding your requirements of disc brake and electric start, apart from the standard bullet, all others come with these creature comforts, at least since last 6-7 years. Your budget is enough to find you one, and get it repaired too.

Also unclear to me is the purpose of your purchase, since you mention you only need it for a year.

You are a newbie and should be very careful in the resale market. An abused Enfield, even if run for 15k kms, can give you lot of troubles.

Last edited by vinit.merchant : 25th June 2015 at 11:13.
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Old 25th June 2015, 11:21   #1740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidVenugopal View Post
I'm planning to pick up a second hand Enfield which I intend to keep for about an year.
If you intend to ride it only for a year, then I would recommend you to lease one. It would work out a lot cheaper than INR100k for the full year.
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