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Old 14th September 2015, 09:52   #1936
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
And there is the difference in philosophy: Someone else might say '20,000 ft! That reading cannot be right. Discard it', and go to an alternate mode of operation.

If one has got enough processing power, it is good practice to see that all input reading pass a 'sanity test'.

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Sutripta
Looking for next nearest KPA value is the alternate mode of operation! Is it not?
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Old 14th September 2015, 20:45   #1937
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Default Re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan"

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Originally Posted by dustom_99 View Post
Looking for next nearest KPA value is the alternate mode of operation! Is it not?
Not necessarily. It's an exception, and how you handle it is once again a matter of philosophy.

The reading from a sensor has gone beyond accepted bounds. If one thinks that the sensor is essentially OK, just degraded slightly and gone off calibration, clamping the value at one of its limits, and working with it makes sense.

However if one thinks that that reading should not be there at all, and most probably indicative of a bust sensor, then the approach might be to substitute a 'mean/ expected/ ballpark' figure, and try and continue without damaging anything.

Similarly for other options. It is an exception handler. The rule normally in these cases is be graceful, do no harm. And in litigious environments, remember safety of the 3 Ps take precedence.

I think we have gone beyond the original question of why sensor values are capped/ clamped.

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Old 14th September 2015, 21:45   #1938
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Default Re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan"

Well sorry for my interruption in the ongoing issue and discussion about the FI in RE. As far as I know they don't have the O2 sensor due to which people spend money on their new RE to be converted into carb. Well that was not my question... My question was that I heard that they are going to launch the bike in November? Has anyone has any information about it?
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Old 15th September 2015, 14:47   #1939
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Default Re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan"

Gentlemen I got this information(from the service manual) about the Export model RE EFi 500 that are fitted with an O2 sensor. It is written and I quote,

Specifications
Lambda (HEGO O2 sensor). Operating Voltage: Upto 16V Max, Operating Temperature: 600 degree C to 950 degree C(TIP).

Functions
"The Lambda Sensor detects the presense of oxygen in the exhaust and produces a variable voltage according to the amount of oxygen detected. The sensor provides feedback to the ECU which in turn will meter the air/fuel ratio in order to achieve a near stoichiometric air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1 during closed loop operation. (The ideal mixture is the amount of fuel needed to make an engine perform as commanded by the the ECU). The Lambda sensor is located on the LH side of the exhaust pipe near the cylinder head. The Lambda sensor is temperature sensitive and hence takes approximately 90 seconds to get activated whenever the engine is started. Till the time the Lambda sensor is activated the ECU gives a preset air fuel mixture."

I have a Tbird500 which has an EFi unit but is not fitted with an O2 sensor per se like all other EFi powered RE's in India. Is it true that the EFi unit on Indian RE's have some manual adjustment for tuning and adjusting the RPM for idling?
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Old 15th September 2015, 19:13   #1940
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Default Re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan"

Apart from altitudes etc a carb is easier to take apart and clean especially after water fording compared to an ecu. IMO it makes sense to leave a carb in an adventure bike which is expected to regularly water ford..
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Old 16th September 2015, 03:21   #1941
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Default Re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan"

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post

I have a Tbird500 which has an EFi unit but is not fitted with an O2 sensor per se like all other EFi powered RE's in India. Is it true that the EFi unit on Indian RE's have some manual adjustment for tuning and adjusting the RPM for idling?
The EFi unit on the UCE, RE's is programmable but not without the special computer and interfaces possessed only by Royal Enfield and a very few service centers. (It is grossly expensive. So much so that I believe the only one in the USA is owned by the company that imports the motorcycle.)

The idle speed on the other hand is easily changed by turning a very large, brass screw.

This screw is located down in the bottom of a hole in the top of the throttle body and the screw has a straight cut slot for use with a very large straight blade screw driver.

Getting access to this screw from the top of the throttle body is relatively easy on my G5 (Electra) motorcycle but it does require loosening the clamp slightly and rotating the throttle body clockwise (aft looking forward) slightly.

I've been told that on some models such as the Continental GT, the fuel tank must be partially removed to gain access to the screw.

That may be the case with your motorcycle as well. I don't have access to one to see what is happening in that area.

If you do find the idle speed adjustment screw, it is an air bypass screw so, turning it clockwise (in) will DECREASE the engine speed. Turning it counterclockwise (out) will INCREASE the engine speed.
Turning it about 1/4 of a full turn will reduce or increase the idle speed about 200 RPM.

Under NO circumstances should you change the screws on the outside of the throttle body which are located near the throttle cable bellcrank.

Although they look like they might adjust the idle speed, they are actually there to adjust the calibration of the unit. They are NOT idle adjustment screws.
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Old 16th September 2015, 13:03   #1942
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Default Re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan"

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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
The EFi unit on the UCE, RE's is programmable but not without the special computer and interfaces possessed only by Royal Enfield and a very few service centers. The idle speed on the other hand is easily changed by turning a very large, brass screw.
Jim mate as usual a detailed explanation by you on the RE EFi unit. I read this same explanation by you on some other thread as well. To be honest I have never tried to fiddle/tinker with the EFi settings on my Tbird500 like I do on my CI Bullets which run on CB points. I have however spotted some screws near to the fuel injector manifold which look similar to the air/fuel adjustment screws on the carburettor. I have never touched it as I am not sure what effect it would have on the factory settings. Reading some of the above posts of some of our TeamBhpian's I feel RE should have offered an O2 sensor at least as an option for riders like me who don't mind spending additional amount for such useful stuff. However I haven't faced any issues on my EFi Tbird500 till date and hope it remains so. I have seen numerous riders throwing off their EFi units in favour of the good old carb once the 1 year warranty period is over.

Coming back to the core topic the Himalayan sporting a carb doesn't come as a surprise to me given that RE sells the Bullet500 with carb only, although both of these motorcycles belong to a completely different category.
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Old 16th September 2015, 17:21   #1943
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Hi Team,

The mirrors on my Bullet 500 (UCE) are not long enough and I have to move my hands to see what's behind me I read that lots of riders have used the Bajaj avenger mirrors to tackle this issue, but I like the round RE mirrors & I don't want to fit bar end mirrors too.

Any idea if mirrors with longer shafts are available in the market? If not, how do I resolve this issue?

TIA!
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Old 16th September 2015, 17:31   #1944
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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Originally Posted by Siddy View Post
The mirrors on my Bullet 500 (UCE) are not long enough and I have to move my hands to see what's behind me I read that lots of riders have used the Bajaj avenger mirrors to tackle this issue, but I like the round RE mirrors & I don't want to fit bar end mirrors too.

Any idea if mirrors with longer shafts are available in the market? If not, how do I resolve this issue?

TIA!
this is a very well known problem in REs. my friend here has fixed something called "jalebi-type" mirrors. they have characteristic bends that can be moved along the Y-axis upto 3 inches. Dont have a snap but try googling this. you might get a hit. it costed him 450 rupees for a pair.
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Old 16th September 2015, 18:06   #1945
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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Originally Posted by FuelInjector View Post
my friend here has fixed something called "jalebi-type" mirrors.
I found them online, the design is pretty quirky. I think, I need to get long ones fabricated or the only other option is a wider handlebar.
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Old 16th September 2015, 18:16   #1946
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Originally Posted by Siddy View Post
I found them online, the design is pretty quirky. I think, I need to get long ones fabricated or the only other option is a wider handlebar.
Mate I am using the rectangular rear view mirrors(from Bajaj Avenger) on one of my Standard Bullet since 2010. The results are much better than the RE stock round mirrors(chrome type). In fact the round mirrors(all black type) that comes on the Standard Bullet model is a tad better and also has a wider adjustment compared to the chrome type. I am using the all black round mirror on my other Standard Bullet and am satisfied with it. But still it does not match the visibility of the rectangular(avenger) mirrors. If you want more options then do check out the round and rectangular with rounded edges mirrors from Vespa. Although I have never fitted them and am not aware of their behaviour. But its worth trying.
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Old 16th September 2015, 18:51   #1947
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Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
Mate I am using the rectangular rear view mirrors(from Bajaj Avenger) on one of my Standard Bullet since 2010.
Thanks for the Vespa idea navin_v8, i'll try that for sure. I'm going to check the avenger mirrors too if the visibility is that great, the only thing that I'm concerned about is aesthetics. If you don't mind can you please post a picture of your ride with the mirrors.

TIA!

Last edited by Siddy : 16th September 2015 at 18:53.
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Old 16th September 2015, 19:16   #1948
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Default Re: Royal Enfield trademarks the name "Himalayan"

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Originally Posted by dustom_99 View Post
I just wanted to let you know that altitude correction is primarily MAP sensors job.O2 sensor corrects the AFR ( for whatever reason they might be away from intended values) But if AFR is was off due to some reason - like sudden change in barometer, Stock narrow band O2 can't do.much about it.

I am sure if you shout it out loud , you can find lot if people here on forum itself who would say they had no trouble with there engines in leh or other high altitude places along with near sea level places. And then ask them if there bike has an o2 sensor.
On the first point, I guess we're fully agreed now. On the second, I also agree that "a lot of people" would have had no trouble. On the other hand, as mentioned, I've met many here locally who do Manali-Leh regularly (tour companies) who HAVE had trouble, and it seems to be a problem RE is aware of, hence the new adjustable injector.

So to me, that only underscores the importance of the O2 sensor; ALL RE UCE 500's would ship with and ECU with absolutely identical curves programmed into it. And yet, there are manufacturing variations to deal with - one has slightly higher compression; one has slightly more cam advance; one's crank sensor is mounted a degree retarded compared to the actual spec... Etc. Throw in other uncontrolled / inconsistent variables (maybe even slight variations in outputs between "identical" MAP sensors at any given pressure), and you've potentially wandered far enough from strict "blueprint" specs that your curves aren't going to work quite as right as they theoretically should. If you've got an O2 sensor, you've got the ability to correct for all that to some degree; if not, the bike's going to act up, just as many less fortunate owners have experienced.

That's my take... but will leave it here.

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 16th September 2015, 19:43   #1949
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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Originally Posted by Siddy View Post
Thanks for the Vespa idea navin_v8, i'll try that for sure. I'm going to check the avenger mirrors too if the visibility is that great, the only thing that I'm concerned about is aesthetics. If you don't mind can you please post a picture of your ride with the mirrors.
Sure mate you can find my rides (Standard 1996 with Avenger mirror and Standard 1969 with OEM All black mirror) with their mirrors on the below mentioned links.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...bullet-17.html (Why Enfield Bullet?)
Post no. 254

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...ird-500-a.html (Undying hunger, my 5th Royal Enfield - The Thunderbird 500)
Post no.14

My suggestion to you based on my experience would be to use the avenger mirrors as they are the best I found in terms of visibility and are also prone to less vibrations.
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Old 16th September 2015, 21:29   #1950
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Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
Sure mate you can find my rides (Standard 1996 with Avenger mirror and Standard 1969 with OEM All black mirror) with their mirrors on the below mentioned links.
Thanks a lot navin_v8. Your collection is amazing, I actually forgot about the mirrors while going through your 1969 B1 Bullet Standard 350 post Simply superb! I found the black mirrors pretty wide, gonna try both and then decide. Thanks again.
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