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Old 30th April 2016, 06:59   #2371
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Originally Posted by kanu2k15 View Post
Great. Thanks for the information, I will go there tomorrow and check things out. Hoping cops don't stop my bike for being a DL number. I haven't got the papers yet from Delhi.
No worries. Ensure that you are there as soon as it opens, I think around 10 AM. Today being Saturday, expect a decent amount of crowd there.
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Old 30th April 2016, 12:11   #2372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_MNC_SK View Post
(The AVL has a cat con on head upper part)
It is not cat con, it is Pulse Air Valve for BS 2 pollution compliance. All AVLs and CIs are having this after 2004 onwards and in UCEs 500cc engines have it. It steels fresh air just before carburettor and hamper the tuning every now and then.

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Originally Posted by Dr_MNC_SK View Post
By the way,the following mods are done in between- the AVL Tappets and guides are removed and new lathe cutting for guides of standard are done and STD guided and tappet valves are installed- this caused me to lose the Decompression mechanism as in STD the decompression is through the cylinder head and not through Tappet. Both the cam heads and cam spindles are changed, and also the oil pump gear is changed.

I took the bike to a local mechanic here , he hears my query , removes the breather pipe from the primary drive going to the Oil Recirculation Can and blocks it with a screw
Problem started before this or after this ‘kalkari’?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_MNC_SK View Post
I took the bike to a local mechanic here , he hears my query , removes the breather pipe from the primary drive going to the Oil Recirculation Can and blocks it with a screw
For which pipe you are talking about? Engine breather pipe is simply fitted to crank case. I am surprised that mechanic has blocked the engine breather. Please post a picture of pipe he blocked.
If your bike’s air filter was always dry, there is no chance of oil through carb to combustion chamber/ PAV to exhaust.


There may be only two cases: 1. Pump is throwing excessive oil cylinder 2. Leakage through valve seats.


Jim sir, your views please.
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Old 30th April 2016, 19:21   #2373
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Hello everyone,
Can someone tell me,where can I get parts for my bike(C5)?
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Old 30th April 2016, 19:38   #2374
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Originally Posted by Abhishek3001 View Post
Hello everyone,
Can someone tell me,where can I get parts for my bike(C5)?
All genuine parts should be available at the RE service centers.

What parts are you referring to bro ?
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Old 30th April 2016, 19:57   #2375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great View Post
All genuine parts should be available at the RE service centers.

What parts are you referring to bro ?
I need the LHS and RHS engine cover gaskets and the oil seal for the shifter.
I recently had my 9000km service done,but the the service centre did a very bad job and I am reluctant to send my bike back to them.
Hence I plan to do it myself.
Will the authorised service centre sell me the parts without any hesitation?
I feel that they will not sell me the parts easily,as all my previous requests for procuring a workshop service manual for the bike have either fallen on deaf ears or stalled by promises of a callback which never came.
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Old 30th April 2016, 23:41   #2376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek3001 View Post
I need the LHS and RHS engine cover gaskets and the oil seal for the shifter.
I recently had my 9000km service done,but the the service centre did a very bad job and I am reluctant to send my bike back to them.
Hence I plan to do it myself.
Will the authorised service centre sell me the parts without any hesitation?
I feel that they will not sell me the parts easily,as all my previous requests for procuring a workshop service manual for the bike have either fallen on deaf ears or stalled by promises of a callback which never came.
If your motorcycle is a post 2009 UCE model you will only need the shifter oil seal and possibly the gasket for the left hand engine side cover.

If you are real careful when you remove the left hand cover, you may not need that gasket at all.
If the gasket is not ripped/torn, it can be reused.

Unless you have some other good reason for opening the right hand side cover I would recommend leaving it alone.

There are several O-rings inside the right side cover which seal oil transfer ports and if these are not installed correctly, major engine damage can occur.
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Old 4th May 2016, 14:41   #2377
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Originally Posted by (Alok) View Post
Problem started before this or after this ‘kalkari’?

For which pipe you are talking about? Engine breather pipe is simply fitted to crank case. I am surprised that mechanic has blocked the engine breather. Please post a picture of pipe he blocked.
If your bike’s air filter was always dry, there is no chance of oil through carb to combustion chamber/ PAV to exhaust.
Hi Alok,


The "kalakari" as you have put it had no bearing on my problem, it was there before it and after it also. On a different note, this kalakari has made my tappets maintain their set values for far (say 10X) more duration then what the stock AVL Tappets used to. Just that I dont have decompression anymore, hence a slow kick prior to starting to set things right.

The pipe is a pipe coming from the left hand primary drive chain containing box. Its smaller than the engine breather pipe.

My airfilter was mostly dry throughout but the air filter box (in avl engine of TB air filter fox is an airtight box with connection to that oil drain can) usually had some oil residues. It still does have but less than before and it doesnt smoke at all now.

Thank you.
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Old 4th May 2016, 22:34   #2378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
If your motorcycle is a post 2009 UCE model you will only need the shifter oil seal and possibly the gasket for the left hand engine side cover.
Mine is a 2015 UCE 500 EFI

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
Unless you have some other good reason for opening the right hand side cover I would recommend leaving it alone.

There are several O-rings inside the right side cover which seal oil transfer ports and if these are not installed correctly, major engine damage can occur.
Well,on checking it out again in the day light,it seems that the LHS cover is not leaking at all but the oil appears to be leaking out of the starter motor housing or perhaps the the oil which has leaked out from the RHS cover has made its way over to the LHS.
The leak on the RHS cover seems pretty substantial to me and the engine has lost most of its oil and after a ride I could smell the engine oil burning.
I am attaching pictures of the LHS and RHS of the engine,perhaps you could tell me what should be done?
Thank you,
Abhishek


PS:I have been trying to upload the pictures since sunday but for some reason they just won't upload,so here are the links to the photos-
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1U4...6Yh4A1uYFQvcCg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jJ...M5Z_Jjn8iHP6TQ
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Old 4th May 2016, 23:45   #2379
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

After looking at the photos I can see no signs of any leak that would need anything replaced.

The very light oil wetting you are seeing is typical of that caused by the bolts that hold the covers in place being slightly loose.

By "loose" I don't mean something you could "turn with your fingers" loose. Rather, I mean they are not torqued to the proper value.

If you have a torque wrench and a socket that fits the bolt heads you could retighten them yourself.

This process is not just a matter of putting the socket on the bolt head and cranking it up tighter.
It is done by going, one at a time to each bolt and loosening it. Then, carefully tightening it until the proper torque value is reached. In the case of these side cover bolts, that torque value is 10 NM (7.4 lb/ft).
Do not attempt to tighten the bolts to a torque higher than 10 NM. They are small and easily broken if too much torque is applied.

There are times when bringing the torque value up to the right value won't be enough to stop a leak like this.
In that case, the covers must be removed and a oil resistant gasket sealer should be applied.
This is not a job for a person without mechanical experience.
There are several very important oil passages that must remain open after the parts are reassembled and a small amount of the sealer in the wrong place can damage the engine.
Also, as I mentioned earlier, there are several O-rings that must be properly installed (although replacement of them is not needed unless they are damaged).

Another thing you can do without any special tools at all is to thoroughly clean off all of the oil and dust from the area of the joint where the side covers (and electric starter gear cover) meet their mating parts.

A very slight leak will gather dust and the dust will help to "wick" the tiny amount of oil that has leaked so it covers large areas like your photos show.

As for the burning oil smell you noticed, I don't see any signs of enough oil to cause such a problem. The oil would have had to drip down onto the exhaust pipe to find enough heat to cause a burning smell.

If you don't feel up to retorqueing the bolts, take the motorcycle to a GOOD mechanic and tell him what your problem is and what I said.
He should be able to retorque the bolts in 10-15 minutes and have you on your way.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 5th May 2016 at 00:05.
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Old 5th May 2016, 10:03   #2380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_MNC_SK View Post
I have a query on a RE TB niggle that I had a couple of years since , now rectified the Jugaad way but i wanted someone to throw some light into it. I have a TB 350 AVL 2007 model. White fumes used to come out from the exhaust at times, totally unpredictable. Took the usual way out, rebored the block put new pistons and rings and it worked fine. (Thought Oil was getting into the Combustion chamber through the failed piston rings ) It was around 60K + that time on odo.

But no, it started again, head opened again, piston rings changed, problem apparently sorted but again the same thing started to happen. AVL Piston & Rings Genuine was difficult to find so I took the plunge and on a trip to Mysore got a new block cylinder piston kit and changed it. Apparently the problem seemed to be rectified. Then 5-6K on the new block and all of a sudden the smoke starts again. Air filter and all other source of oil reaching the combustion chamber including cat con (The AVL has a cat con on head upper part) were checked to be fine.
Mate yours is the classic case of what is called piston rings failing coupled with excess oil pressure. I too have an AVL Tbird but have never experienced this phenomenon. The issue is caused due to worn out piston rings. The white smoke from your exhaust are also a result of this wherein the oil(due to over pressure) is entering the engine block and not getting burned thereby resulting in your exhaust emitting white smoke. The increase in pressure within a motorcycle's engine due to worn out piston rings, throws the oil up into the breather tube attached to the crankcase. Due to this you might also notice a marginal dip in power.
Quote:
I took the bike to a local mechanic here , he hears my query , removes the breather pipe from the primary drive going to the Oil Recirculation Can and blocks it with a screw and connects it back and asks me to see. I have been driving like that for the last 8000 Kms and not a single incident of fume has reoccured, niether is there any loss of Oil or excessive Heating or any problem I can appreciate at present. A 5 rupees screw did the trick. Can anybody understand and explain me what actually was happenning? Thank you
As rightly mentioned by you the mechanic did a jugaad fix. What he did was he simply plugged the breather pipe and redirected into the air filter. By doing this the oil fumes coming out from the crankcase are recirculated back into the engine and burnt. While a motorcycle is running the ignited air and fuel mixture bypass the damaged piston rings, increasing the crankcase pressure resulting in excess pressure. The added pressure displaces the engine oil in the only direction of escape, Yes the breather tube. Your mech ingeniously plugged the breather tube to the air filter to overcome this issue. But end of the day it is Jugaad and will not hold up for long.

Ideally well maintained engines will create a steady internal pressure while running, transmitting the extra pressure out through the breather tube without problem. But a rise in pressure caused in the crankcase breather tube can result in too much engine oil or piston ring failure. The piston rings although small and look unintimidating helps to isolate the engine cylinder's combustion chamber from the crankcase.

The reason you are seeing the same issue even after changing to new cylinder block piston is due to the continuing cycle of excess pressure of oil circulation which eventually damages the new piston rings as well. What happens is an oil soaked air filter does not allow as much air to enter the engine, reducing the engine's performance. As the oil in the air box is pulled back into the engine, the oil droplets coat the combustion chamber walls. This oil is heated by the ignited air and fuel mixture to form carbon build up that creates havoc with the piston rings. And so it continues until the rings disintegrate altogether.

My suggestion to you would be to maintain correct oil levels, excess oil than the suggested max limit can result in this issue. Hope this helps.

Last edited by navin_v8 : 5th May 2016 at 10:08.
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Old 10th May 2016, 03:54   #2381
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Just wondering if 72W LED Cree Light bar would be an easy install for a Classic 350?
Link to the Light Bar
A for a similar Chinese light bar. Looks good? What do you guys suggest?
This one or 2X 18W 6LED or 2X 27W 9LED auxiliary lamp?

Last edited by kanu2k15 : 10th May 2016 at 03:54. Reason: Link for review
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Old 10th May 2016, 08:52   #2382
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Originally Posted by Dr_MNC_SK View Post
A 5 rupees screw did the trick. Thank you
I would suggest removing the screw and directing the pipe onto the chain. In this way, not only is the chain being lubricated partly, you can also notice if the engine is throwing out a lot of excess oil .

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
As the oil in the air box is pulled back into the engine, the oil droplets coat the combustion chamber walls.
Won't the spark plug stop sparking before the rings give up, if at all it does?
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Old 10th May 2016, 09:44   #2383
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I would suggest removing the screw and directing the pipe onto the chain.
The matter is not clear. As the Dr said that it is not the breather pipe but “The pipe is a pipe coming from the left hand primary drive chain containing box. It’s smaller than the engine breather pipe”.

A mechanic shouldn’t be fool to block the breather pipe, it may cause insufficient oil supply to cylinder wall and rocker both as the pump input will be affected.

I do not have any Thunderbird (AVL with PAV) nearby to checkout personally. I got the attached image from Google.
We can see only one pipe (marked with blue arrow), which is the engine breather pipe. The other one (shown with red arrow) is not the pipe but wiring from magneto to TCI system.

Dr's T Bird is one of last model of 3 box AVL engine (2007) and in same year TBTS was launched.

We need to know that exactly which pipe the mechanic has got blocked.
Attached Thumbnails
Royal Enfield Queries-t-bird-2005.jpg  


Last edited by (Alok) : 10th May 2016 at 09:49.
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Old 10th May 2016, 10:00   #2384
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Originally Posted by (Alok) View Post
The matter is not clear. As the Dr said that it is not the breather pipe but “The pipe is a pipe coming from the left hand primary drive chain containing box. It’s smaller than the engine breather pipe”.
There were multiple breather pipes on the later 3 box Enfields. There was one even from the timing chest and from the valve cover as well, but I don't remember one from the clutch case.
A picture by the OP would sort out the assumptions.

Last edited by GTO : 11th May 2016 at 10:23. Reason: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers. Thanks!
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Old 10th May 2016, 10:38   #2385
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Won't the spark plug stop sparking before the rings give up, if at all it does?
Mate if you are saying the spark plugs will stop due to oil residue leaking into cylinder wall and making it to the spark plug then it wont stop sparking all of a sudden. The engine will misfire giving out symptoms of a sparkplug fouled with oil residue. I had a terrible wet sumping problem on one of my Standard CI 350's. It was so terrible that the oil used to ooze out of the spark plug hole, yet the engine kept running without any issues. I got it rectified and the problem got solved. The piston ring failure is also gradual and gives out some symptoms like I mentioned in my previous post. As long as the electrical insulation surrounding the spark plug is intact, the oil residue on the spark plug will only make the engine misfire. If the oil residue is high enough that it blocks the tip only then will spark plug will stop sparking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Alok) View Post
The matter is not clear. As the Dr said that it is not the breather pipe but “The pipe is a pipe coming from the left hand primary drive chain containing box. It’s smaller than the engine breather pipe”.
Mate here are a couple of pics of my Tbird AVL 350 2004 CDI model. I believe the breather pipe is the one circled in red and the bottom blue circled one is the oil breather pipe that goes to the drive chain.

Quote:
A mechanic shouldn’t be fool to block the breather pipe, it may cause insufficient oil supply to cylinder wall and rocker both as the pump input will be affected.
Classic Indian Jugaad at work here mate.
Quote:
I do not have any Thunderbird (AVL with PAV) nearby to checkout personally. I got the attached image from Google.
We can see only one pipe (marked with blue arrow), which is the engine breather pipe. The other one (shown with red arrow) is not the pipe but wiring from magneto to TCI system.

We need to know that exactly which pipe the mechanic has got blocked.
I believe the pics of my Tbird AVL 2004 model that I have attached with the red circled pipe is the one that Dr_MNC_SK is referring to.
Attached Thumbnails
Royal Enfield Queries-avl-tbird-20041.jpg  

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