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Old 22nd August 2016, 15:20   #2506
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
This looks like a classic case of air trapped inside the brake lines. The brake lines needs to be bleeded to remove the air inside them. What is the total mileage of your friends' bike? The brake fluid reservoir running dry is not good news unless there is a leak somewhere.
Thanks for your quick reply
There didn't seem to be any leakage, but then we couldn't verify that because brake fluid just stayed in its container. If I'm not wrong, vehicle has done around 25k and he first encountered the disc issue when his odo was reading around 15k.

Now when you say "The brake fluid reservoir running dry is not good news unless there is a leak somewhere." what exactly do you mean?
And, how can we remove air from the brake lines?
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Old 22nd August 2016, 16:32   #2507
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Originally Posted by LazyGunner View Post
Thanks for your quick reply
There didn't seem to be any leakage, but then we couldn't verify that because brake fluid just stayed in its container. If I'm not wrong, vehicle has done around 25k and he first encountered the disc issue when his odo was reading around 15k.

Now when you say "The brake fluid reservoir running dry is not good news unless there is a leak somewhere." what exactly do you mean?
And, how can we remove air from the brake lines?
Mate your friend needs to bleed the brake lines to get rid of the air trapped inside the same. The process to remove air from the brake lines is called brake bleeding. As for the empty brake fluid reservoir, it seldom goes empty unless there is a leak somewhere as the brake oil is recirculated. For example my 2004 RE AVL Tbird has done hundreds of thousands of kms but the brake fluid level seldom went down. It was either flushed/bleeded or topped up with fresh brake oil as per need(during regular service and maintenance) but it never went empty. If the leak isn't visible from outside then do check the brake master cylinder to see if it is holding all the brake fluid. See ArizonaJim's post mentioned on the thread below for a more detailed understanding.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...y-control.html (Royal Enfield Thunderbird 500 : Brakes Failed : No Quality Control)

Post no. 2

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Originally Posted by farhadtarapore View Post
Thanks for a detailed answer, as always. The wheel doesn't rotate for one full turn if I turn it with all my might (perhaps I need bigger arms). Is that a problem? It goes for just a quarter turn or half and then stops. It's not freely moving, but it's not jammed either.
Refer to Jim's post on this thread regarding the wheel not freely moving issue related to brakes.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...y-control.html (Royal Enfield Thunderbird 500 : Brakes Failed : No Quality Control)

post no. 7
Quote:
I tried that religiously for 6 months. Then my knees started aching considering the sheer number of kicks required to start the bike. I got the breather pipes replaced, etc. but no use. It's appalling that a company like RE still cannot get a self start right.
Mate I think I mentioned about this to you sometime back. I will however reiterate it:
1. While thumb starting the bike first time in the morning press and release the clutch lever a few times(5 to 6 times) while the bike is switched off.
2. Press the clutch lever and crank the engine using the thumb starter
3. While following step 2 you have to simultaneously give a very mild throttle to wake up the engine.

By following this technique my Tbird500 starts in first crank 8 out of 10 times.

About the kicker being too hard while kick starting, Farhad mate the newer UCE engines from RE are high compression engines compared to the Old CI engines. For that matter even the AVL engine was a high compression engine which required more effort to kick start as compared to a CI. Adding to the compression ratio is the 500cc engine displacement. The best way to kick start is to give a nice, slow and smooth full kick. Besides you can lift your left leg in the air to put your weight on the kick lever thereby taking the stress off your knee joint. Another technique is to use your left leg for kick starting, I do it considering all my other bikes are kick start and I don't want to end up with knee arthritis.

Last edited by aah78 : 23rd August 2016 at 20:52. Reason: Posts merged.
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Old 22nd August 2016, 23:17   #2508
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Hello Royal Enfield Experts,

Just got my RE Classic 350 from the dealership. I am not sure if I should be worried, but the engine block smells after heating up. To better explain, I rode it for around 5-6 KMs and after switching off the engine, I noticed a smell one gets when metal heats up or like the smell one senses when metal is welded.

I barely remember, but I sensed a similar smell when my wife's Honda Activa was new, but cannot recall.

Could this smell possibly because the engine is still new? Please advise.

Thanks very much!
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Old 23rd August 2016, 09:35   #2509
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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Originally Posted by farhadtarapore View Post
Thanks for a detailed answer, as always. The wheel doesn't rotate for one full turn if I turn it with all my might (perhaps I need bigger arms). Is that a problem? It goes for just a quarter turn or half and then stops. It's not freely moving, but it's not jammed either.
If you can't rotate the wheel a full turn with your hand, the brake needs immediate attention by a good mechanic.

To help understand what the problem most likely is, I'll try to give a brief explanation of how a disk brake works.

If you can imagine a C clamp which is shaped like the letter C, the kind used for wood working has a large screw on one leg of the C which pushes whatever it is holding against the other leg of the C.

The disk brake caliper is basically a big C clamp which uses a hydraulic piston in place of the large screw.
There are usually 2 brake pads. One is located on one leg of the C while the other is located in front of the hydraulic piston.
The brake disk rides between the two brake pads.

When a force is applied to the hand or foot lever the piston in the hydraulic cylinder is moved inward which creates pressure in the brake line.
This pressure is transferred to the caliper piston by the master cylinder so the caliper piston moves out compressing the sandwich of the two pads and the brake disk.

When the lever on the master cylinder no longer being compressed the pressure in the system drops to zero as the fluid returns to the master cylinder.

Here is one place where a problem can occur.
If there is a problem with the master cylinder which prevents the fluid from returning freely, the caliper piston will continue to apply force to the pads.
There are valves inside the master cylinder to prevent this but sometimes they can become fouled.

To fix this problem, a new (or rebuilt) master cylinder must be installed.

Now, onward to what I think is happening with your brake.

The caliper/piston/pads thing is pretty simple but for the brake to work properly, the whole caliper assembly must be free to move sideways (with respect to the disk).
There are several different designs but the caliper often slides on pins or on a machined surface.

While the caliper piston was applying force to the pad that is located at the end of the piston, it was applying an equal force to the other leg of the caliper, dragging it and its brake pad towards the disk.
While it was applying this force, the caliper had to move with respect to the disk and to the rest of the motorcycle.

When the brake lever pressure is removed, the caliper normally slides sideways to remove the pressure on its brake pad. While this is happening, the piston brake pad is pushing the piston back into its cylinder.

If the pins or surfaces that the caliper slides on are damaged or not lubricated the caliper can't move so the calipers brake pad continues to rub hard against the disk.

This can keep the wheel from turning freely and I suspect it is the problem with your brake.

As I mentioned, this really should be addressed by a good mechanic although I am the first to say, the whole system isn't very difficult for a home mechanic to take apart, examine, lubricate and reassemble.

For anyone who wants to try to fix their own brake be warned.
The grease used to lubricate the pins or surfaces which the caliper slides on MUST be the type that can take extremely high temperatures without softening. Also, at no time should any of this grease be allowed to get on the brake pads or on the brake disk.

About the people who pumped for hours without being able to get fluid to flow thru the brake system:

As I mentioned, the master cylinder has valves in it to control the flow of the brake fluid. If any of these are not working, pumping the brake lever will only result in fluid being pumped into the piston cavity and then being blown right back out into the master cylinder reservoir.

On the Royal Enfield hand brake master cylinder there is a small steel colored piece of sheet metal on the bottom of the reservoir.
It is easy to accidentally move or remove this part and if this happens the piston will not operate correctly.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 23rd August 2016 at 09:39.
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Old 23rd August 2016, 10:48   #2510
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Hi,

I had posted earlier about facing issues while kickstarting my TB500. I followed the advice given and things improved a little bit. It still takes more than 4-5 kicks before coming alive. I generally dont kick it first thing in the morning and use only the ES along with the choke. However, something unexpeted happened yesterday - i tried to start the bike using the ES initially and then the kicker but the bike refused to start. I tried starting it for about 30 mins before I gave up and took the car to work. This morning, it started as soon as I thumbed it. I want to understand why this happened and if there is something I need to watch out for.

I regularly face another issue and I believe that both the problems are related. I have done about 4-5 long distance rides (over 150 kms one way) in the last 6 months. Most of the time i maintain speeds of about 90 kmph and on a couple of occassion push the bike to around 110 kmph, but this lasts for only 10-15 kms. Each time during these rides I notice that the engine comes close to stalling when I decelerate. A couple of times the engine has switched off but I was able to get it running again as the bike was still moving. The real issue occurs when I try to start the bike after I have stopped for a break (generally take one every 60 mins) or try to start it the next morning - does not happen during the first few tries. The problem automatically resolves itself in a couple of days and its almost like there was no issue at all.

What do you think the problem could be? Fuel pump, spark plug or something else?

Parikshith
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Old 23rd August 2016, 17:02   #2511
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Hi #Navin and #ArizonaJim,

I did change the Slider , the pickup has improved slightly.
Off late i have noticed a particular single beat "Tub" like a misfired beat when i dis-engage the acceleration while driving.
Moreover when i start the vehicle in the morning the idling wont even last 3 seconds, at times the engine dies at signal stopover :(
I am really worried about my bike. It has never been the same ever since accident (was kept in garage for a month for repairs).
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Old 23rd August 2016, 17:28   #2512
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Originally Posted by Rugged View Post
Hi #Navin and #ArizonaJim,

I did change the Slider , the pickup has improved slightly.
Off late i have noticed a particular single beat "Tub" like a misfired beat when i dis-engage the acceleration while driving.
Moreover when i start the vehicle in the morning the idling wont even last 3 seconds, at times the engine dies at signal stopover :(
I hope no water has entered your fuel tank which is making the carb run erratically, if not then get your carb tuned and also check your spark plugs.
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Old 23rd August 2016, 22:57   #2513
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Speaking of spark plugs, parik_ind's problem sounds like a problem with it/them in his motorcycle.

The first thing I would advise him to do is to replace the spark plug and see if that doesn't solve the starting/running problem.

Also while the spark plug(s) are being replaced, special attention to the high tension wire(s) and their connection with the spark plug cap/cover should be given.

Occasionally, the connection between the wire(s) and cap will become loose.
If that happens, the intensity of the spark, even with new spark plugs will be greatly reduced.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 23rd August 2016 at 23:00.
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Old 24th August 2016, 09:56   #2514
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post

The first thing I would advise him to do is to replace the spark plug and see if that doesn't solve the starting/running problem.
Thanks Jim. Will change the plugs over the weekend and also get the wires checked. Hopefully this solves the issue.

Parikshith
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Old 24th August 2016, 18:54   #2515
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A quick update on my bike,I would have posted it sooner but I just couldn't get my hands on the laptop.
The weird sound while cranking the engine was traced to the exhaust valve not closing properly,the reason so as to why that happened is still sketchy but the most probable scenario as stated by my mechanic was that the engine might have sucked in some debris while I had removed the plugs.The said debris prevented the exhaust valve from closing completely and it was fouling with the piston.

The result was that the exhaust valve and valve guide needed to be replaced as there was too much side to side play in them.So,I got that sorted out and to fix the original issue ,as per Arizonajim's suggestion,I swapped the plugs for a set of bosch plugs with a heat rating of 8,replaced the air filter,added an injector cleaning additive to the fuel and replaced the engine oil and filter too for good measure.
Thankfully it didn't cost a bomb to fix and all of this was done for about 5K.

Royal Enfield Queries-re-fix1.jpg
The encircled part is where the valve supposedly fouled with the piston.

Royal Enfield Queries-re-fix2.jpg

I've ridden the bike for about 400Km(mostly highways) since the fix and it has been flawless,until I discovered that the throttle return cable has rusted and ceased in its casing,due to standing still for a few days in this humid weather I guess.
Anyway,for now I have disconnected the throttle return cable as the other one is fine and the throttle closes with the help of the return spring on the throttle body,I have got the replacement part and plan on replacing it myself this weekend.

Cheers,
Abhishek

Last edited by Abhishek3001 : 24th August 2016 at 18:57. Reason: spelling error
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Old 25th August 2016, 00:16   #2516
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Throttle cables and clutch cables seem to be the things most often forgotten.

They all need to be oiled occasionally to ease their movement and to protect them from rust. (They almost always are made from spring carbon steel which can rust.)

Lubing the throttle cables involves getting an pump type oil can with a nozzle or a aerosol can of light weight oil with a long plastic tube (comes with most of these), so the oil can be directed into small areas.

Remove the two screws on the bottom of the right hand twist grip housing and gently pry the upper half away from the lower half.

You will see the two cables going into holes in the lower half of the housing.

Spray or squirt some oil into both of these and count to 5. Then, repeat the spraying. a few more times, giving each dose a chance to drain down into the cables.

When you have applied enough oil you will notice some of it is dripping out of the cables at the lower end. (If you motorcycle has a carburetor, you won't see this but give the cables at least 4 shots of oil).

After oiling the cables, wipe the excess oil out of the grip housing and off of the various parts where some has dripped, reassemble the two halves of the grip housing and replace the two screws.

I've already described how to lube the clutch cable but it is just about as easy to do.
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Old 25th August 2016, 09:28   #2517
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Recently during a long drive I noticed the following.
There was a howling sound when i shut the throttle while the bike was at 4th gear and touching 75-80kmph. Is that normal?
This was also observed during the deceleration from 60kmph in the third gear. So basically when i decelerate from the max rpm for a gear ratio. Has anyone experienced this?
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Old 25th August 2016, 11:09   #2518
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuelInjector View Post
Recently during a long drive I noticed the following.
There was a howling sound when i shut the throttle while the bike was at 4th gear and touching 75-80kmph. Is that normal?
This was also observed during the deceleration from 60kmph in the third gear. So basically when i decelerate from the max rpm for a gear ratio. Has anyone experienced this?
Have you noticed it when the stock exhaust was present?
Sounds like the sound is present only when decelerating at a certain rpm which mostly is the sound from the exhaust.
One way to check is by swapping back the stock muffler.

That will also help in observing any unwanted noise from the engine.
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Old 26th August 2016, 00:15   #2519
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The sound may also be due to the drive chain being out of adjustment.

If the chain is too loose, the upper leg of the chain will sag and drag on the rear fork cross-tube during deceleration.

Normally, there is a small rubber blockor pad on the cross-tube for the chain to bump against.
This usually silences the noise but it is possible the block/pad has become dislodged or lost.

In any event, the first thing I would check is the chain tension.

With the motorcycle resting on the center stand (and the engine off), the rear chain should move up/down a total of 25-30mm with light pressure applied in the middle of the chain span.

If it moves more (or less) than this amount, it should be adjusted to meet the Owners Manual requirements.

After checking this chain looseness, rotate the wheel a bit to move a new section of the chain and repeat the test. Do this several times so that all of the chain is inspected.

The reason for this multiple check is, chains in poor condition will often have a "stiff" area that doesn't want to bend or flex even with a substantial amount of pressure being applied.
If the chain demonstrates this condition, it will need to be replaced.
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Old 29th August 2016, 01:19   #2520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
Mate your friend needs to bleed the brake lines to get rid of the air trapped inside the same. ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
If you can't rotate the wheel a full turn with your hand, the brake needs immediate attention by a good mechanic.

..
Many thanks to both of you. After bleeding the brake lines and parking the TB350 overnight on a clean floor, we found that brake fluid was leaking from below the bike. Swapped the master cylinder assembly for a new one and the problem is solved. As of last evening, the vehicle did close to 50km and the rear brake worked well the whole time. At the end of the day, we had a happy bulleteer whose rear brake started working as it should after a long time.

Last edited by theMAG : 29th August 2016 at 02:18. Reason: Please do not quote entire posts, in the best interests of readability. Thanks.
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