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Old 13th February 2017, 11:05   #2716
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Hi guys,
I am asking for a friend who rides a 2015 Thunderbird 350.
The speedo meter on his bike has stopped working but the speedo needle does the full sweep on start up.As mentioned by others in this thread his fuel gauge also does not work and his clock isn't working properly.The other issues,he can live with but wants to know if the speedo can be fixed without replacing the whole console.
Also,his bike stutters sometimes while accelerating,it starts up and idles just fine but randomly stutters on acceleration.How do we fix that?

Thanks
Abhishek
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Old 13th February 2017, 12:21   #2717
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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Originally Posted by Abhishek3001 View Post
I am asking for a friend who rides a 2015 Thunderbird 350.
The speedo meter on his bike has stopped working but the speedo needle does the full sweep on start up.As mentioned by others in this thread his fuel gauge also does not work and his clock isn't working properly.The other issues,he can live with but wants to know if the speedo can be fixed without replacing the whole console.
Mate the instrument cluster of the Tbird's post 2012-13 does have a niggling problem with fuel gauge and the clock. Well you can tell your friend to ask the RE ASS guys to check the fuel float assembly inside the fuel tank which takes the reading. If its faulty they can just replace that part without touching the instrument cluster. The clock's unreliable reading is also a known issue. He doesn't need to change the entire instrument cluster for it. I believe your friends' Tbird bought in 2015 has a warranty of 2 years. You can ask him to claim his warranty against these issues.
Quote:
Also,his bike stutters sometimes while accelerating,it starts up and idles just fine but randomly stutters on acceleration.How do we fix that?
Looks like a fuelling issue to me, ask him to get his carburettor tuning checked.
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Old 13th February 2017, 18:16   #2718
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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Originally Posted by Abhishek3001 View Post
Hi guys,
I am asking for a friend who rides a 2015 Thunderbird 350.
The speedo meter on his bike has stopped working but the speedo needle does the full sweep on start up.
I'm using a 2014 Thunderbird and I have issues as posted above and was reported here in this thread too. Few months back, my speedometer stopped working just like your friend's and took it to the RE ASS. They initially suspected speedometer sensor and cable, but on further probing they found the sensor was alright. There is a plug like thing in the speedometer cable which is plugged into the instrument cluster and one of the wire there was broke. The technician was kind enough to repair that and now it's working well. For your knowledgeable, last I checked, the speedometer sensor and cable costs around 950 and the instrument cluster itself costs around 6500. If his bike is in warranty, then well, he is lucky. If not, please do consider these points before replacement.
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Old 15th February 2017, 00:07   #2719
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Hi guys,
Thank you for the swift responses regarding my friend's thunderbird,we will take it to the dealership and see how it goes.
Now,coming back to my classic 500.I was wondering,if i could fashion some sort of a catch can to trap the oil vapours coming from the crankcase breather into the intake manifold as this might help reduce air filter contamination and the build up in the throttle body and its sensors?
Can I also disconnect the EGR tube which connects to the intake manifold?Can I delete the entire EGR system?
Will these steps help reduce the jerkiness and the carbon buildup on the spark plugs caused by the C500's rich mixture?

Regards,
Abhishek

Last edited by Abhishek3001 : 15th February 2017 at 00:10. Reason: punctuation
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Old 6th March 2017, 00:08   #2720
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

Hi all,
I will start off with a prelude. I couldn't find a separate thread for different categories of issues and couldn't locate a post specific to my problem out of the hundreds of pages. So, apologies if it is a repeat question and also that it is a tad long post.

I have TBTS 2009 model which has run nearly 15k kms. Recently I changed both tyres. For front, fortunately got Ceat Secura Sport 19 inch (Although it's May 2016 made). I am having problems right since installation. The movement is not at all free. At higher speeds I felt up and down movements. I got this checked this up with my regular mechanic and he felt it's problem with beading not aligning concentrically and it's a manufacturing issue of Tyre. The Tyre shop guy says, the physical movement itself is not free and to first get it fixed by mechanic. The Tyre shop guy somehow realigned but screwed up with fixing front brake caliper. It started wobbling very heavily. The company workshop mechanic said the disc brake plate itself is bent. Then I went to another mechanic and he identified problem with broken front bearings and replaced them, along with beating near bead line of Tyre to fix the concentricity to some extent.

Now the movement of front wheel is relatively free and the vertical bounce is resolved. But it still stops abruptly after slowing down, when rotating it. This is less free than rear wheel, which, although is chained, stops gently.
Another mechanic opined that wheels with disc brakes tend to have little higher friction than rear drum brake fitted ones. And it is normal fitting.

Now I am thoroughly confused and want to get some confidence before heading into a 600kms ride.

Please provide your thoughts and suggestions.
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Old 6th March 2017, 10:00   #2721
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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Originally Posted by rich_heart View Post

Now I am thoroughly confused and want to get some confidence before heading into a 600kms ride.

Please provide your thoughts and suggestions.
Revert back to a RIB front tyre and check if the it fixed the issue.
I used to run on a 3.25 CEAT Secura Sport on my 500 which didn't help on smooth tarmac roads at all. It was jumpy, had uneven wear which got worse and had a wobble. Once I moved to a rib tyre, the issues were resolved.
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Old 6th March 2017, 10:11   #2722
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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Revert back to a RIB front tyre and check if the it fixed the issue.
I used to run on a 3.25 CEAT Secura Sport on my 500 which didn't help on smooth tarmac roads at all. It was jumpy, had uneven wear which got worse and had a wobble. Once I moved to a rib tyre, the issues were resolved.
But question is, whether the type of Tyre will have impact on free rotation of the wheel itself?
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Old 6th March 2017, 10:16   #2723
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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But question is, whether the type of Tyre will have impact on free rotation of the wheel itself?
That is to do with the discs and not the tyre. Is better to re-fit the disc brake assembly just to be on the safe side before a long ride.
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Old 6th March 2017, 18:38   #2724
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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That is to do with the discs and not the tyre. Is better to re-fit the disc brake assembly just to be on the safe side before a long ride.
Thanks Tharian.
Yes, it was refitted. It is still having minute lateral movement. I will check another Thunderbird and check the freeness of movement.
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Old 7th March 2017, 16:06   #2725
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Exclamation Re: Royal Enfield Queries

After a 300 Km round trip last weekend, when I took my bullet (1990 STD 350) to office today, I am hearing a weird knocking sound like clunk....clunk....clunk....clunk from the crank case.

The noise is perceptible when idling and it increases with engine RPM. It reaches annoying levels at speeds of about 60 Kmph. So much, so that is heard above my bullet's loud exhaust note.

Apart from the noise, there are no other symptoms. Firing is normal, idling without missing a beat, gear shifting is smooth. There is no loss of power and the bull is cruising smoothly as usual. There is some noise from the worn out chain sprocket, which was there earlier and I am planning to replace it anyway.

What could be the possible causes and consequences of the noise ? I am afraid if it has anything to do with a worn out connecting rod bigger-end bearing.

Seeking expert advice in this regard

Cheers ! LOVE AND LIVE TO DRIVE !
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Old 7th March 2017, 23:11   #2726
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

It's difficult to say what the cause of the noise is without hearing it.

If it is a "clickity,clickity, clickity..." sound it may be valve clatter which can be corrected by having the valve clearances adjusted.

If it is a "whack, whack, whack..." or a "clunk, clunk, clunk..." sound like you mention at the same speed as the engine seems to be running, it is likely the bearing on the big end.

Typically, a failing big end bearing makes more noise as the engine speed increases. Valve clatter noise is fairly constant as the engine speed varies.

Piston slap noises which fit the "whack, whack, whack" sound description can also become louder as the engine speed increases but they are usually most pronounced when the engine is cold. As the engine heats up, the piston grows in size and the reduced piston clearance to the cylinder due to this expansion reduces the noise.

The big end bearing in the old Iron Barrel engines uses a floating sleeve or ring bearing between the crankshaft journal and the inside diameter of the connecting rod.
This bearing can become worn on both the inside and outside surfaces and a good oil supply is imperative to minimize wear.

The connecting rod is made from an aluminum alloy and the inner surface of the big end runs directly against the sleeve bearing and wear is not uncommon at this location.

Replacing the big end bearing and the aluminum connecting rod requires totally disassembling the crankshaft and then reassembling it.

To do this properly, during the reassembling stage of the process, both ends of the crankshaft must be carefully checked to make sure they are exactly in line with each other. This is not the job for an amateur so be sure to find a mechanic who has done this task many times.

As this is basically major surgery, and requires a total tear down, it is a good idea to have the piston, piston rings, valves and valve seats replaced or reconditioned.

If the cylinder wall does not have scratches or is not tapered due to wear, re-boring is not usually required. If the cylinder wall is damaged it is a good idea to just have it re-bored to fit an oversize piston.

While the mechanic is in there, be sure he fully checks the oil pump drive gear and shaft.
These parts often become worn and if the wear causes a failure there will be no oil going to the bearings.

Good luck.
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Old 8th March 2017, 01:10   #2727
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
It's difficult to say what the cause of the noise is without hearing it.

If it is a "clickity,clickity, clickity..." sound it may be valve clatter which can be corrected by having the valve clearances adjusted.

If it is a "whack, whack, whack..." or a "clunk, clunk, clunk..." sound like you mention at the same speed as the engine seems to be running, it is likely the bearing on the big end.
ArizonaJim, Thanks a lot for the prompt and detailed response to my query.

It is definitely not the tappet/lifter noise like "clickity,clickity, clickity..." or the "Tik, Tik, Tik..." type.

Not "whack, whack, whack..." too, and I think it will not suit the piston slap sound as you have mentioned.

It is a metallic "clunk, clunk, clunk..." or more like "clungdung, clungdung, clungdung....."which increases in magnitude as the engine RPM increases. Funny it may sound, I think I am in for serious trouble. Like you said, I suspect it has something to do with a worn out floating sleeve bearing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
The big end bearing in the old Iron Barrel engines uses a floating sleeve or ring bearing between the crankshaft journal and the inside diameter of the connecting rod.
This bearing can become worn on both the inside and outside surfaces and a good oil supply is imperative to minimize wear.

The connecting rod is made from an aluminum alloy and the inner surface of the big end runs directly against the sleeve bearing and wear is not uncommon at this location.
In one word if I have to describe the explanation it is "Perfect"

The floating sleeve bearing has its own dis-advantages I think. Improper lubrication may be a reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
As this is basically major surgery, and requires a total tear down, it is a good idea to have the piston, piston rings, valves and valve seats replaced or reconditioned.
So got to visit a bullet surgeon, an old hand who is in to rebuilding bullet engines. First I have to confirm if the diagnosis is right. If it is the case then I would have to shell out at least INR 12K to 15K in my opinion for a thorough rebuild, coupled with re-boring, if required, as you have suggested.

Will keep the updates posted.

Thanks again mate.

Cheers ! LIVE TO DRIVE !!
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Old 10th March 2017, 20:40   #2728
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Default Re: Royal Enfield Queries

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So got to visit a bullet surgeon, an old hand who is in to rebuilding bullet engines. First I have to confirm if the diagnosis is right. If it is the case then I would have to shell out at least INR 12K to 15K in my opinion for a thorough rebuild, coupled with re-boring, if required, as you have suggested.

Will keep the updates posted.
Visited two mechanics."Bullet Mani" who exclusively repairs Royal Enfields and Mr. Shakthi who does all bikes, but comes highly recommended by RE owners that I know in my work place. I know a senior bulleter who keeps his bullet in mint condition, getting regular service done by him. He got a full restoration of his 80's bullet with him a year ago, and the results were pretty impressive.

Both of them immediately diagnosed "floating noise" after revving the engine. As ArizonaJim suggested it is going to be a major surgery then. A complete engine rebuild is going to take a good amount of time and money, involving replacement of bore, piston, piston rings, valves, valve seats etc. Also the oil pump drive gear and shaft is to be checked as advised.

Both suggested approximately18,000 to 20,000 rupees and a time frame of ten days to two weeks for a thorough rebuild. Since Mr. Shakthi's garage is close to my home and Bullet Mani is a good 125 Kms away, I am planning to handover the bike to Mr. Shakthi. It will be good to accompany him for getting the spares and watch him work on the engine. Also I will get a chance to take photographs to document it in Team-BHP

Will come up with a thread on the rebuild in a while.

Cheers ! LIVE TO DRIVE !!
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Old 12th March 2017, 17:19   #2729
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Default 2T Oil mixed with Petrol RE Std 350 CI

Hello Friends,

The topic of the thread is what I did during the last ride and it would be highly appreciated if experienced people out there can comment on this. Before getting on to the topic, it seems necessary to elaborate on the circumstances under which it was carried out.

To start with, the exhaust tappet on my 1964 Std 350 was making a lot of noise and before setting out on the last long ride I adjusted it, when hot, to such an extend that they rotate with the thumb, albeit with a force. I did this when the engine was hot. The noise from the tappet disappeared and forgot about it.

The timing seemed perfect, with proper idling, power and one kick start even on a morning without using the choke. But the plate was set in the full retard position.

I sets out with the machine, and after around a distance of 300km, I discovered that the oil levels were depleting, and the engine was heating up (Usually I place my hand over the timing cover during long runs, and if I needn't pull off my hands instantaneously owing to the heat, I suppose that to be normal. But this time, I couldn't even touch the engine with my finger). Also, it was noticed when the engine was stopped that there was oil leaking out of the timing cover screw beneath the exhaust cam wheel. While riding, I couldn't find the trail of oil going down the cover, and that's the reason to believe it happened only when the engine was stopped. There was also a loss of compression when the engine was hot, but there were no issues for it to start up on giving a proper kick, nor issues in cruising.

Upon checking the inner part of the silencer, the soot was oily. I opened up the spark plug, and the inner part was white, with no traceable deposit of oil. I loosened up the exhaust tappet, refilled the oil and traveled another 200 km's with a normal depletion in the oil level after the ride. But now the only trouble was that the engine was not idling, and as the accelerator was released engaging the clutch, it went off.

I took it to a garage en-route the next day, and the guy there adjusted the CB points and the engine was idling. The plate was set close to the middle position, favoring the retard side. But now the starting had become peculiar, for just as I went for the half kick, there was a slight compression that came in towards the end of the half kick, and in the following full kick, the engine starts up (I didn't realize then that it was an advance timing). There was no trouble in idling.

Supposing everything to be fine, sets out again, but the engine was still heating up, with not much of depletion in the oil levels initially. By this time, it was noticed that the top end of the bent pipe had turned bluish red. I kept riding as I was in the middle of nowhere, and by now it was noticed that the oil level was dangerously depleted. I refilled it and continued.

I was riding moderate and did not revolve up the engine much. As we were chugging along, the needle of the ampere meter which was until now on the positive side comes to the middle all of a sudden, as if it was refusing to move into the positive even when the engine revolutions were increased. The horn too went down which was until then working properly. And now developed the biggest trouble, loss of power going at higher revolutions. I could not reach the speed of 40kmph. Nothing was working and a panic mode engulfed. I doubted the condenser, changed it, still the same-ampere meter not moving into the positive, and a loss of power as I give the accelerator. By now it was late evening, and I had to switch on the lights only to discover that all of them were gone. Thankfully for the AC-DC wiring, the headlights were working. Rest everything were gone except for the indicators.

The next town with the possibility of a garage was still 80km away. Reached there late to find all the garages shut and the doubt was now on the rectifier. Tried with a spare I was carrying and it was still the same. When the bike was running, the ampere meter wont go into positive, and when it was stationary, an increase in engine revolution would take it to the positive side. With the battery not being charged, I did not dare to venture further in the night, and put up in that town.

Found out a garage the next morning and tried changing the rectifier and as we installed a brand new piece, it was still the same and the belly of the new rectifier heated up. It now clicked that there was a short circuit somewhere and that's when the guy checked the battery. It was dead! Apparently, the rubber packing given on top of the terminals had fallen off after the battery belt broke and the metal battery cover had short the battery. Replaced it and the ampere meter was now fine with the spare rectifier I had in place.

The advance timing previously set was brought back to normal, and everything is working perfectly fine. The gap between the points too were reduced, and the gap is very very narrow now. And the timing plate is now resting at the full retard position, like in the beginning, with no loss of power, good idling, good average, one kick start and can go around 80kmph without heating up the engine.

Also, as per the advice of the mechanic there, I put in 20ml of 2T engine oil with every 10litre of petrol. Now the engine doesn't heat up, and the oil levels are normal after another 450 km's.

Thanks for being with me this long. Just a little bit more. I felt the whole story was needed to clarify certain inferences made and question that came out of this experience.

1. The oil depletion and the over heating initially was due to the tight exhaust tappet, probably the oil leaking through the valves and leaving a residue in the exhaust pipe while not on the spark plug.

2. The bluish red bent pipe, associated over heating and the depletion in oil level is due to the advanced timing.

3. Because of the position of the plate, it seems that the distributor pinion needs to be rotated back (anti-clock wise) one teeth. Is that the case?

4. The 2T engine oil added to the petrol in that proportion, is that advisable? The mechanic told me that it would keep the valves cooler.


Any observations, clarifications, comments, add-ons will be highly appreciated.
Thank-you once again for being all along.
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Old 13th March 2017, 22:13   #2730
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Default TB 500 oil leak and burning smell.

Need your inputs in identifying the issue with my 1.5year old TB 500. Around 1.5 months back, I noticed a burning smell after my Home/Office and vice-versa rides (40km each side). I usually ride my bike twice a week and most of commute is highway where I usually ride around 90-100kmph. After noticing the smell 2-3 times, I stopped riding my bike and 3 weeks back took it to service centre for usual service along with this issue. The Service advisor (SA) mentioned that there is a leakage in engine side cover packing which would be replaced as the bike is in warranty. He showed me the engine oil deposits near the ECU. Got the work done along with my usual service and the next week took my bike for a long trip. After around 140kms, when I stopped for a break and put the bike on side stand, I noticed very light smoke coming out of the bike near the bend pipe and the same burning smell.

Worried, I called the SA and he asked me if (a) Is there a oil deposit again near the ECU which was not the case and (b) Whether the MIL light is flashing.

He mentioned that there is nothing to worry till the time MIL is not flashing. It can be an issue of engine oil getting deposited near the bend pipe during oil change which is burning now. After his re-assurance, I continued with my 900km trip and came back without any issues. But now when I am riding my bike even for short distance (12-15kms), I can again notice the smell again and also now I have noticed the oil deposit has again reappeared near the ECU.

Would like your inputs on:

1. What can be the cause of side packing leak and is the burning smell relating to the same?

2. Secondly, is it harmful for the engine If i keep riding my bike like this for another 4-5 days till the time I get a chance to visit the service centre.


Thanks in advance
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