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Old 1st April 2009, 14:28   #16
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Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
its true I havent ridden around much on bikes with front discs, but I have ridden around a lot on my Splendor. when you drive a lot on a type of mahine, you develop a feel for it. I remember a rash of accidents among friends when the CBZ arrived. they were almost always caused by folks driving fast [relatively] and mashing the front brake lever as hard as they would had it been a drum.

all Im saying is that by default and using common sense, the disc would be better suited to the wheel which is powered.

UVs with RWD come with front discs but also factor in brake bias and the massive weight + tire contact area.
i beg to differ here. it is all well known in braking conditions the weight of the vehicle whether a two wheeler or a four wheeler shifts on the front tyre/s. the braking power is more necessary on the front wheel. rear brake power is needed only to modulate the wheel speed . even if you apply full brake on rear - the vehicle is going in to fishtailing (extent depends on the kind of vehicle too).

earlier even i used to think front disks/larger drums are waste when power is delivered to the rear. but now sometimes i use only front brakes to control speed/stop. it inspires lot of confidence. if somebody has crashed using front disks i would feel it is better than a head on collision.

its not just disk - in general more importance is given to front tyre braking (larger drums/disks/larger disks/double disks etc) even the supercars/performance oriented cars will sport larger discs upfront.
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Old 1st April 2009, 15:00   #17
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>> or if manufacturers wanted to cut costs, they should have put the disc behind, not up front.

* where do you get this kind of stuff from???

about dogs: i've had the (dis)pleasure of running over a few dogs on various bikes, a puppy and a fully grown dog on a shaolin in mumbai and a fully grown dog that ran across the street when i was doing 80 on a KB100 in blore. all 3 times i was on the bike and didn't crash! the KB100 incident happened with a pillion on as well. the bikes just went over the dogs.
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Old 1st April 2009, 16:21   #18
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Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
Try hard braking on a Splendor( i am talking of one's without Disc brakes)
and then on a Pulsie or a Zma you would know.
and I guess you own a shogun too,try on that,I had one until last year and it had awful brakes until i upgraded to a Disc set up for it.

Regarding the scooters most of them have decent braking if they arent ridden at speeds above 60,and forget Bajaj scoots,they used to spin like crazy under braking because of engine weight.
Well, the brakes on my Shogun are certainly not awful. The front of course is not a disc, so you have to pull it much harder. There is of course room for improvement, but the current set up is not bad. Yes, for speeds above 90 - 100, the need for a disc brake is acutely felt... for emergencies.

On the other hand the rear drum brake of my new CBZ-Xtreme leaves a lot to be desired. It is most unfortunate that manufacturers give low priority to such critical things. Disc brakes are not standard, drum brakes often leave a lot to be desired, most Indian tyres are made with tyre life as a priority instead of rider's life as priority, etc., etc...

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Originally Posted by silver_shadow View Post
>> or if manufacturers wanted to cut costs, they should have put the disc behind, not up front.

* where do you get this kind of stuff from???

about dogs: i've had the (dis)pleasure of running over a few dogs on various bikes, a puppy and a fully grown dog on a shaolin in mumbai and a fully grown dog that ran across the street when i was doing 80 on a KB100 in blore. all 3 times i was on the bike and didn't crash! the KB100 incident happened with a pillion on as well. the bikes just went over the dogs.
It won't always happen that way. I'v seen very bad cases where running over dogs have caused bikers to topple and end up with serious injuries. Depeneds on a lot of things like the size of the dog, road conditions, speed of bike, etc., etc.Anyway, I have no idea how people end up colliding with dogs. Has not happened once with me, on any vehicle. I'd not be able to live with myself, if it happened.

Last edited by Raccoon : 1st April 2009 at 16:22.
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Old 1st April 2009, 16:39   #19
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Hi Archish

There are tourers, there are commuters and there are "local heroes". The third kind is very dangerous. Keep distance. Nothing will change them - neither front disc brake nor rear

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Originally Posted by Archish View Post

I remember 2 happenings recently. Both on the same Chennai Bangalore highway. One was a group of bikers all in their leathers, helmets and backpacks traveling at 100+ kmph and overtaking me on my Qualis. All of them where driving modified bullets and harleys. I felt every safe seeing them. These ppl knew what they were doing. Their bikes and tyres where equipped for this. Another was a lone dude on his karsima or modified yamaha (was too rattled look at bike model) was doing 100+ with a pencil thin tyre. This bike was just flying around on the road. He was wearing nothing but sunglasses. What if a dogs runs across? or there is sand on the road? And in a country like ours, there is always a possiblity of someone walking out of the blue and crossing the road.

These highspeed two wheelers on the highways are always a risk.
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Old 1st April 2009, 16:52   #20
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Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
whoops! totally lost track of this thread.
anyway, here's what I mean about tfront disc brakes. Im not saying theyre bad. Im saying that that the twin discs that are now coming as 'premium fixtures' should have been made standard. or if manufacturers wanted to cut costs, they should have put the disc behind, not up front.
Guys, most of the braking in a two wheeler is done by the front brakes and that is why disc brakes are fitted on to them first. Most of the stopping power is provide by the front brakes, the rear brake only does enough braking to stabilise the bike so that it does not slip out from under, correct me if I am wrong !

Last edited by kannan666 : 1st April 2009 at 16:53.
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Old 1st April 2009, 17:00   #21
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In the hands of a poorly trained rider even a cycle can be fatal.

Practise, Practise and then practise a little more.

I generally do high speed braking tests once every 6 months or so.
In spite of riding on an almost day to day basis.

motorcyclecruiser.com has an excellent selection of articles under Riding Tips.
I read them all over again once in a while.

Once it so happened that the very next day of a high speed braking test, I encountered a situation that put it all to test.
Riding under a flyover, I find this IDIOT with his bike perpendicular to the road.
He is cutting across lanes after getting off the flyover.

I braked hard, and left some rubber on the road as well.
But maintained a straight line.
Scared the hell out of that moron.

Then scared him a little more when I made him say thank you to my front disc brake.
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Old 1st April 2009, 17:02   #22
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I don't know if anyone knows a Pulsar mechanic by the name of 'Ayub' near BTM. I have seen Pulsars modified to touring bikes in his garage, that come for the odd servicing. Talk about bikes on highways!
About bikes not allowed on certain highways, I can only think of the Mumbai - Pune expressway which does not allow bikes and 3 wheelers on it. But there are a few villagers who take the expressway for a short distance. How safe is that?
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Old 1st April 2009, 17:22   #23
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Although I've taken to riding late in life, I've done enough highway trips on 3 separate states I've had to live in in the last 5 years - West Bengal, Goa & Gujarat. My 2 cents on the discussion:

On Front Brakes of motorcycles: Some members have said that they feel unsure using the front brake on a motorcycle, as they had accidents as kids while using bicycles. Please note that the factor that makes front brakes on bicycles unsafe is the same reason that makes front brakes on motorcycles safe - weight!!

On a bicycle, your weight is much more than the vehicle. When you brake suddenly, the sudden shifting of weight forward throws the heavier body (which is on top of the lighter body) off and forward.

But on a motorcycle, the heavier body (bike) is under the lighter body (you). When you brake hard, the shifting of weight digs the heavier body into the ground, and you (being on top of it) come to a secure stop.

Wanna test this theory? Carry 2 big, fully loaded suitcases on top of your head, run for a while, then come to a sudden stop. Now repeat the same run and stop exercise, this time carrying the suitcases beside your body. In the first case the suitcases will be thrown off your head. In the second the same will bring you to a secure stop.

On highway driving by 2 wheelers: I dont believe having 2 wheelers on the highway is that much an issue. In India, the majority of 2 wheeler riders are uneducated people who have no formal knowledge of lane manners/rider discipline etc. The reason they ride like the wind is because they're enjoying the thrills of biking, and no one has educated them of the consequences if something goes wrong.

These people will ride like the nerds they are, whether its city or highway. They are an accident waiting for a place to happen!

However, that does not mean that motorcycling should be banned from highways. This is an extremely myopic approach to the issue. In my Xbhp days, when we use to do highway trips in groups, there would always be nerds who would think there's some circus going on. They would try to race us or intimidate us into racing with him. However, thankfully we stuck to proper riding etiquette and speeds, giving these fools a wide berth.

What needs to be done: The only solution to this problem is proper rider education. When anyone purchases a bike, he must compulsorily go through a rider training programme (on safety as well as riding technique) before he is allowed to take delivery of the motorcycle. Such programmes may be initiated by the government (haha, I laugh at myself) or as a Corporate Social Responsibility measure by one of the bike manufacturers.

Awaiting comments of the other bikers on the forum.
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Old 1st April 2009, 17:28   #24
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sorry folks I forgot to consider front wheel loading under braking. maybe one day when I have the time and the enthusiasm, Ill experiment with brake configurations on a bike. until then, I accept what the more experienced folks have said about braking.
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Old 1st April 2009, 19:57   #25
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Whether at speed or not, Indian highways are simply NOT safe enough for two-wheelers. I've had my share of close shaves; close shaves where I escaped an accident only due to my cars braking ability, size (deterrent) and handling. I have lost a very dear friend - who was the best rider I knew - on an Indian highway and am of the firm opinion that it's best for motorbikes to stay within city limits only. We have simply too many untrained / sleepy / overworked / drunk drivers behind the steering wheel on our national highways. The exposure to risk is too high! Plus, your two wheeler - being smaller - is low on visibility to the other guy (if he has a rear view mirror at all) and I've seen one too many bikes being bullied in overtaking moves. Do you know that a majority of deaths on Indian highways were on two wheels / feet (pedestrians)?

May I request all you riders out there to refrain (as much as realistically possible) from riding on our highways? It's a crazy dangerous world out there. You can be the safest ride, but the fact is, you do not have an airbag, crumple zones and sheer metal to protect you on all sides.

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Old 1st April 2009, 20:24   #26
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i forgot to mention this in my earlier post.

this thread smacks of a cager guy who never rode a bike in his life (or very little at best) sitting on his high horse and blaming all the ills of highway travel in india on 2 wheelers.

folks have you noticed that in india it doesn't matter whether someone is on 2 wheels, 4 wheels, 6 or more wheels or even on 2 legs - people are still callous about how to use roads to ensure safety to themselves and others using it. pointing out at one particular type is just plain unfair. i need not point out all the numerous examples of rash driving from all of the above mentioned classes of road users. you know it!
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Old 2nd April 2009, 07:42   #27
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
It's a crazy dangerous world out there. You can be the safest ride, but the fact is, you do not have an airbag, crumple zones and sheer metal to protect you on all sides.
When you picks your bike to head out for a long trip, you knows that Its an understood risk, and you play that much safer. The feel of the wind in your face is not what you get inside a car. Or seeing, hearing, feeling more around you. Its not about speeds, but being "out there" rather than experiencing it from behind a windscreen. Some of the best memories I have of places, trips, etc are on two wheels. And a big bonus - when you stop and dismount a bike, way more people "connect" and open up for conversation than if you get out of a car. To me thats a huge part of "travel" - the folks you meet and the stories you hear.

In a decade plus of riding, have had one mishap on the highways (and the riding gear took real good care of me), and the number of close shaves inside town vs the highway is way higher. I feel safer on the highways, really.

Oh, and its a crazy, dangerous world anyway!
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Old 2nd April 2009, 08:48   #28
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When you picks your bike to head out for a long trip, you knows that Its an understood risk, and you play that much safer. The feel of the wind in your face is not what you get inside a car. Or seeing, hearing, feeling more around you. Its not about speeds, but being "out there" rather than experiencing it from behind a windscreen. Some of the best memories I have of places, trips, etc are on two wheels. And a big bonus - when you stop and dismount a bike, way more people "connect" and open up for conversation than if you get out of a car. To me thats a huge part of "travel" - the folks you meet and the stories you hear.

In a decade plus of riding, have had one mishap on the highways (and the riding gear took real good care of me), and the number of close shaves inside town vs the highway is way higher. I feel safer on the highways, really.

Oh, and its a crazy, dangerous world anyway!
I agree with you tottaly
I have been riding since 9 years now,and have had 3 crashes(minor),all of them within the city.
I feel much safe on highways,rather than commuting within the city.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 10:38   #29
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Originally Posted by silver_shadow View Post
i forgot to mention this in my earlier post.

this thread smacks of a cager guy who never rode a bike in his life (or very little at best) sitting on his high horse and blaming all the ills of highway travel in india on 2 wheelers.
I totally agree with this sentiment. As long as you havent been biking on the highway yourself, you'll always be too biased to give a neutral view on this thread.

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Originally Posted by zenx View Post
When you picks your bike to head out for a long trip, you knows that Its an understood risk, and you play that much safer. The feel of the wind in your face is not what you get inside a car. Or seeing, hearing, feeling more around you. Its not about speeds, but being "out there" rather than experiencing it from behind a windscreen. Some of the best memories I have of places, trips, etc are on two wheels. And a big bonus - when you stop and dismount a bike, way more people "connect" and open up for conversation than if you get out of a car. To me thats a huge part of "travel" - the folks you meet and the stories you hear.

In a decade plus of riding, have had one mishap on the highways (and the riding gear took real good care of me), and the number of close shaves inside town vs the highway is way higher. I feel safer on the highways, really.

Oh, and its a crazy, dangerous world anyway!
Very, very well put. My best memories of highway riding are on 2 wheelers, where I felt much more connected to what I was seeing around me. On a 2 wheeler, the journey itself is the destination!

Agreed, its much more dangerous (and much more strenuous) than driving a car. But when you just want to leave it all behind and head out, a bike is your best friend.

Hey cagers, I got hope for you. If you dont want to bike on the highway yourself, get a copy of Robert Pirsig's "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainence" or Che Guevara's "Motorcycle Diaries". Even if you dont start riding yourself, atleast you'll get a taste of what drives us bikers out on the open road.
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Old 5th December 2009, 23:51   #30
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I do ride my '96 Suzuki Samurai on highways. Though I can touch 95 Kmph, I prefer to ride at 70 - 80 Kmph. It's always advisable to ride at 10 - 20 Kmph below your top end. Also I keep to the extreme left and never ride late at night. Though I prefer driving at night. And yes I do rip in the city when the traffic is less.
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