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Old 3rd April 2009, 10:54   #31
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powertwin - that is a super looking bike
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Old 3rd April 2009, 10:54   #32
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I was eyeing a Fury in Hyderabad,but didnot find a decent mechanic to fix it..hence i abandoned the idea.
But in the end,it was a powerful bike with alloys and disc brake in the by gone era.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 13:21   #33
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Hi

Thank you very much for the welcome.

Here is a link to a german E-Bay shop that sells the brake pads:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Bremsbelaege-vorne-Brembo-ZUNDAPP-KS-175-NEU_W0QQitemZ260373385024QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorr ad_Kraftradteile?hash=item260373385024&_trksid=p32 86.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A 1|240%3A1318

These are the Brembo-Variant, if the Fury uses the older "Grimeca" brake (like the KS 175 Mk. I) here's a link to those:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Bremsbelaege-vorne-Brembo-ZUNDAPP-KS-175-NEU_W0QQitemZ260373385010QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorr ad_Kraftradteile?hash=item260373385010&_trksid=p32 86.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A 1|240%3A1318

Those pads are made by Brembo as well! The shop accepts PayPal for payment so shouldn't be a problem to buy these from India.

The following links is a quick listing for KS 175 (Fury) small parts on the German E-Bay alone, and there are plenty of dealers who are NOT on E-Bay.

eBay: KS 175, Auto Motorrad Teile, Bücher, Sammeln Seltenes

I offer my assistance in translating/forwarding questions (if the dealer does not speak English) and sourcing other parts if required.

@Yamdoot
What exactly is the "speedo worm", you mean the cable, the inner drive (on the hub) or the outer drive (where the cable goes into)? If you have a picture of said item, please send it to me boythanh@gmail.com and i'll ask in the Zundapp forum if there is someone willing to sell one (in case it's not available via regular online shops/E-Bay).

As to the discussion i've read before concerning the Fury's gear box, usually the Zundapp (and hence Enfield's) push-rod gear boxes are virtually unbreakable. Specially the Fury's which is based on the identical KS 125 and the older KS 100 gear box, these are over-dimensioned and i have never seen one fail, apart from bearrings (usually the ones for the crank shaft) or clutch plates. The German-spec KS 175 has torque like a tractor which can wear the clutch quickly, depending on riding style - however those parts are still available aplenty and not too expensive. The push rod itself is literally indestructable, but the steel balls can and do occassionally break, but to get there you need to ride without oil for some time.

Speaking of oil, i don't know about the Fury's recommendations but the KS 175 is to be driven with ATF instead of the Zundapp-typical SAE 80 gear oil. It is the only manually geared Zundapp that needs this type of oil, even the near-identical KS 175 requires standard SAE 80.

Another way of obtaining engine parts is to look at Laverda's LZ 125 which has a Zundapp engine. It's the one from the KS 125, but water cooled (the KS 125 has been build water-cooled as well but only for export). Apart from the crank shaft/con rod those engines are identical. In the Netherlands these are used en masse to build custom bikes based on Zundapp type 517 (moped!) 50cc frames where these engines slot right in (yes, you can also put the Fury's engine in an Explorer!)

Sadly i don't speak dutch but in the Netherlands most parts are even easier to obtain than in Germany, specially when it comes to these engines due to their immense popularity.

I will now leave for the weekend but will be back on coming Monday.

Kind regards.....

Thanh
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Old 3rd April 2009, 13:32   #34
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hey powertwin.
my jaw just dropped to the floor!!!wow , great looking fury ,like i said , the dx is a much cleaner , better looking bike . i hope i can get my bike atleast close to yours man. you have got to help me man pls .

I WANT DX PANELS AND MUDGUARD!!!!

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Old 3rd April 2009, 13:47   #35
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thanx a lot thanh for the info , initially i was feeling that trying to restore this bike might end up becoming a wild goose chase, now things are looking slightly more brighter with all the inputs coming from everybody.

Last edited by siddartha : 3rd April 2009 at 13:54.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 15:59   #36
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thanh: awesome info. in case anyone was wondering, i came across this thread and sent it to thanh who i got in touch with through a thai biking forum.

one question: when you talk about the KS125 - is the 175 a bored out 125 barrel? or is it entirely different? and i suppose the other question would be - is it possible to transplant a 125 to a 175 (i'm guessing the entire crankcase would need to be transplanted) and then bore it out? and to what extent can it be bored out - pistons probably need not be zundapp pistons. what about finding a workable solution with say wiseco? i'm curious to know all this.

of course if it can be done - many guys who are into collecting bikes *may* not want to go down this route because of the fact that keeping it stock as far as possible is probably of high priority.

@ powertwin: your bike looks beautiful. tell us more about how she runs.

Last edited by silver_shadow : 3rd April 2009 at 16:01.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 16:17   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver_shadow View Post
thanh: awesome info. in case anyone was wondering, i came across this thread and sent it to thanh who i got in touch with through a thai biking forum.

one question: when you talk about the KS125 - is the 175 a bored out 125 barrel? or is it entirely different? and i suppose the other question would be - is it possible to transplant a 125 to a 175 (i'm guessing the entire crankcase would need to be transplanted) and then bore it out? and to what extent can it be bored out - pistons probably need not be zundapp pistons. what about finding a workable solution with say wiseco? i'm curious to know all this.

of course if it can be done - many guys who are into collecting bikes *may* not want to go down this route because of the fact that keeping it stock as far as possible is probably of high priority.

@ powertwin: your bike looks beautiful. tell us more about how she runs.
silver shawdow , thanks for pointing frank to this thread .

i dont think you can bore a 125 cc to 163 cc , thats 38 cc ,> 30 % increase.

and frank whats "kardon" in kardon sport?
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Old 3rd April 2009, 21:08   #38
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Hello

Thanks again for the replies. I noticed a typo in my last post, where i was talking about the oil, when i said ".... the near identical KS 175" i actually meant to write "KS 125". Please forgive me, i was at work and in a bit of a hurry.

Regarding the KS 125/KS 175, they are indeed using the same crank case and indeed the KS 175/Fury are literally a bored-up KS 125. Same stroke, but different timing (the KS 125 has the exact same power of 17 horse powers but has a much more narrow power band, you ride a KS 125 much more like a sports bike, i.e. always in high rpm's as there is not much torque, however the KS 175, while making 17 horses power as well, is an entirely different beats - in Germany that particular engine is nicknamed "Buffalo" for good reason, as mentioned "torque like a tractor".

So in short, yes, it is entirely possible to plant a KS 175 cylinder onto a KS 125 block, but you will need to change the crank shaft and the (Stehbolzen, what is it in English..?) long bolts that go from the crank case all the way through the cylinder to old the head with 4 nuts. However maybe YOU don't need to do that as the Fury's cylinder is air cooled like the KS 125's, while the German KS 175 is exclusively water cooled.

As to "boring up a 125", this unfortunately is not that easy. As Zundapp has never used cast-iron or similar cylinder liners, instead they used hard-chroming of the aluminium bore, which makes it difficult and extremely expensive to hone any Zundapp cylinder. However you could use a regular KS 125 cylinder and put it onto a Fury's block (again crank shaft swap required!) as you will have the same power - if you like to ride sporty it is an option. The carb is the same one as well, a 26mm Mikuni. However your Fury will then be "degraded" to be a 125. so don't tell anyone.

@silver_shadow
Sadly i didn't know your user name here, otherwise i could have entered it into the "referrer" bit while signing up, but many many thankls for bringing me here, i really appreciate it and truly hope i can be of help here.

@siddharta
"Kardan" (not "Kardon") means "drive shaft". Kardan models don't have a chain but a, well, drive shaft to drive the rear wheel. And not all the "KS" models feature a drive shaft - as the "K" can also stand for "Kastenrahmen", those are where the frame is not made from welded tubing but pressed sheet metal. This naming proved popular so later models retained "KS" even though they had neither a drive shaft nor a pressed frame, basically, all of Zundapp's higher-end bikes were named "KS" such as the KS 50, KS 80, KS 125, KS 175 and the planned (but never built in series) KS 350.

If you do a little research on Zundapp you will find all sorts of model types, all of which originate in German words, with one notable exception, coincidentally one you know locally - the Explorer. It's German name "CS 50" dates a looooong time back, to Zundapp's very first small engine - the "Combimot" that could be attached to bicycles. Zundapp's first moped, based on that engine, was then called "Combinette" and an advanced version of same was then called "Sport Combinette". S-C-50 so to speak.

Over the years there were many many different "Sport Combinette" models, and in the late 60's this was finally modernized - the C(ombinette) 50 Sport was born. C-50-S so to speak.

This was now the lower of Zundapp's 50cc mopeds with it's three speed transmission - at the same the GTS was born, a four-speed and otherwise near identical. Going through the 70's the GTS became more modern as did the C50 Sport, but in the 80's then the big change came - the "open 50cc class" was abiolished in favour of the new 80cc class, and Zundapp re-used the production lnes for the KS 50 (now no longer produced) to make the same as a moped, reduced to 3 HP (from 6.25), naming it "GTS 5-speed". Now the 3-speed C50 Sport was no longer modern, so it was ablished and an entire new model was born, using the previous GTS's four-speed-engine - the CS 50. C(ombinette) S(port) 50! Zundapp stuck to it, still!

Only for internal marketing reasons this was finally renamed to "City-Sport 50", however it was to remain the last of the line, a modernized CS 50 (using a version of the KS 80's engine, doing away with the push-rod gear box but reduced to 50 cc) was the last 50cc Zundapp produced, this was only available in 1984. Zundapp went bankrupt that same year. The production line for the K80 was sold to China and there Xunda-Tianjing continued to build the K80 and a K100 and even a K120 based on the original design, and for a short time even a model with a 90cc four-stroke from Honda (Cub-engine) still under the "Zundapp" brand name. Nowadays production is only continued on a very small scale and "to order" as that factory was taken over by Honda.

Now Zundapp is only kept alive by people like you who restore and ride the old bikes, please, don't let the legend die, every Fury back on the road strengthens the community because the Fury is, in my opinion, as much a Zundapp as one made in Munich/Germany.

With kind regards.

Thanh
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Old 3rd April 2009, 21:25   #39
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[quote=silver_shadow;1244620]

@ powertwin: your bike looks beautiful. tell us more about how she runs.
Silver_shadow: Plz see ,How I felt ,when I test rode my Fury after restoration (This I wrote in some other site a year before>>>)

Beauty of course lies in the eyes of the holder ,yes I am talking of the STYLING.
Zundapp KS 175 (its liquid cooled version of FURY DX 175) A TURN OF A DECADE DESIGN( this I mean at 80's),It gives the feeling of being solid.What is most most noticeable are the mag wheels which gives the bike a Sporty look and more enhanched by the Disc B' on the front wheel.The slope of the feul tank & side doors are conservative,The front visor looks great !!( but the thing was dropped due to vibrations,yes I can feel that ).The seats are sporty and m erges with rear cafe racer fairing (Rear end looks great with Hella tail lamps).

Now I'll come to PERFORMANCE.

When seeing the power to weight ratio it has 0.13 bhp/kg and torque of 17.5 Nm at such low RPM (5600) is fundemental aspect which makes the machine scream!!!,it has yet another feature,"the REASONATOR"(placed on the inlet manifold as in the Yamaha 135)which improves the mid range power by reducing the pulsing effect in inlet,thus improving mid range performance.

Now coming to great GEARBOX of FURY.

Fury's gearring is taller than what it should have been, the throw of the lever is more,thus resulting in time loss while changing gears and one very important aspect in this gear box is,its tendency to get into Fools Neutral",the levers sticks between gears and also gears don't mesh well.
When riding & idling, Bike vibrates considerably while idling,but once
on line the bike is smooth till it reaches the max.(at about 90kmph there is hell a lot of vibes) Though they have designed shear mounted beds to eliminate vibes to the rider, in practical this Belly dance of the engine & G box stall the bike ( I think this is due to faulty fuel dispensing of the Vibrating Carburettor{ I tried a VM28 Carb which is used in BANSEE ATV ,which rectified this stalling problem considerably} )This stalling problem makes the rider fed up in heavy traffic( Yet another aspect I suspect is the Fly wheel under weight-

-- "This would have happend while detuning from 17 to 15.2 bhp, in port mods by our Enfeild engineers.

Bike is great for high speed handling ( must for sports bike),it responds to the riders inputs positively,It does not have any throw-off feeling as in most of Indo-Jap 100cc bike at high speeds.

The suspension travel and firmness is so good( Thats Italian Paioli at front),but in

getting rid of bumps makes the bike little two wheel no contact feeling....
The 6 V electricals are great ( 6 V 11 ah battery is wanted for my bike,but it is hard to get one from outside India)

Meter pod is so ugly( I mean the quality, when compared with KS 175's instrument pod,{ I have not seen one in flesh, though!!)RPM meter is electronic (another first for India) very accurate.

This bike is just not amenable to slow town riding, as the bike keeps stalling,it demands more from the RIDER,but you ride it to the fullest then it is GREAT

ps: I have plenty of questions for our German friend,

Last edited by Jaggu : 3rd April 2009 at 22:27. Reason: Please go through announcments to understand forum etiquette, typing in BOLD. Thanks
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Old 3rd April 2009, 22:15   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanh-BKK View Post
Hi guys.

I am new here, was given a link to this particular topic by a guy whom i have been in touch with some time ago regarding the Fury.
--------------------------------------
Nowadays i am riding Yamaha RXZ (got two of those, plus a VRR) but my heart still beats for Zundapp and hence also for Enfield.

With kind regards.

your Thanh
Welcome Thanh,
You can come after this weekend (rest or celebrations)
Need some info regarding:
1) Was that Zundapp's CS 25 is that one known as Mofa in India
(No confusion......plz see my Mofa, yet to be restored though..)
2) You said CS 50's were imported( must be from India),but original KS 50's, had tremdous performance figures, if my memory serves right,CS50's Land speed record in under 50cc category is not yet touched by its arch rivals "Garelli",Puch, Moto morini & even Yamahas till todate
Can you throw some light on this peice of history?
* Think KS 125, was something close to 14 bhp ,not 17 !!!
** Iam posting few pics from my collection, related with Zundapp & Enfeild.
cheers!!!

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please avoid quoting an entire large post. It inconveniences our small screen & mobile readers.

Thanks.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 22:32   #41
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Sweet memories of my first engined 2 wheeler Mofa! Imported from Tamil Nadu

Thanks for posting the pic, mine was all black.
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Old 4th April 2009, 00:27   #42
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@ frank.. thanks so much for the reply.. so, outer drive it is.. where the speedo cable goes in .. [wheel side] ..
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Old 4th April 2009, 06:12   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanh-BKK View Post
Hi guys.

I am new here, was given a link to this particular topic by a guy whom i have been in touch with some time ago regarding the Fury.

A short intro - my name is Frank Thanh Thai, i am German, but i live in Bangkok/Thailand since December 2008.

With kind regards.

your Thanh
Welcome to T-Bhp Frank. World over, the language of motorcycles is the same, so it should be possible for the guys in need of parts to get on the forum you mentioned and get some help.

It is surprising that KS175 never had an aircooled version in Germany. DO you mean to say that this one was specially developed for other markets?
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Old 4th April 2009, 09:29   #44
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Hello

First of all @yamdoot i will ask in the Zundapp forum if someone has that part and is willing to let go of it. They might ask me which type you need, i.e. there are two different ones as the KS 175 Mk I and Mk II are different, it would be helpful if you had a picture of the device or the bike itself?

@powertwin
Yes, the CS 25 is also in germany knows as a "Mofa" which stands for "MOtor-FAhrrad", literally "motorized bicycle". In Germany, this class of bike is legally reduced to 25 km/h top speed and can be driven by 15-year-olds with a very minor driving license that requires only a theoretical test. I will attach a picture of such bike, this is an original one from Zundapp. The exact same one was also made by Enfield, long after Zundapp itself closed, i believe for Export only, i had the pleasure of selling those. They had a three-speed and the gears are shifted with a twisting grip on the left side of the steering bar. 1.5 horse power, 25 km/h.

The CS 50 (Explorer) is basically the same bike but a tw-seater (the Mofa has only one seat) which falls in Germany into the "Mokick" class, to be driven by over 16-year-olds and requiring a real driving license with theoretical and practical lessons and tests. They can also be driven on a car driving license, still to this day. These are by law reduced to 40 km/h (later 50, today 45... crazy laws there!) top speed. The Zundapp one (see picture) had four-speed with foot gears, 2.9 horse power and 40 km/h, although most of them exceed 50 km/h. The imported ones from Enfield (Explorer, but in Germany also labelled "Zundapp-Madras CS 50") had an engine identical to the Zundapp C50 Sport, i.e. THREE foot-gears, 2.9 horse power and were allowed to go 50 km/h.

The KS 50 was "The King Of 50cc" in Germany. Zundapp always was fastest in this class which was completely abolished in 1980: Unrestrcited 50cc. To be driven by over 16-year-olds as well, requiring a more complex (and expensive!) driving license, and NOT to be driven with a car driving license. Insurance costs for these were astronomical due to the fact that youngsters naturally get involved in or cause accidents more often. This class had no other restrictions than "max 50cc displacement" and due to an agreement among all manufacturers were "officially" limited to 6.25 horse power, although in later days the Zundapp's has close to 7.5 horse power and some foreign manufacturers like Puch came with 8.5 horse powers (i owned one such, a rocket!) Hercules (nowadays known as "Sachs") even continued limited production of "open 50cc's" until 1983, and their last one, the "K50 Ultra RS-WC" had close to 10 horse power, it came with twin front disc and full fairing! This class regularly exceeded speeds of 100 km/h, one of my two KS 50 did close to 120 with an (export) cylinder that made 8.5 horse power. Zundapp, to this day, holds a number of speed and endurance world records with their 50cc engines/bikes.

To the KS 125. This has been around for a long time, the first ones (straight finned cylinder) indeed made 15 horse power but the later ones (angeled fins) made 17, as did the water cooled export ones and the engines to be used by Laverda. This is based on the German insurance classifications - bike insurance in Germany is not based on engine displacement but on power, and there is no "15 hp" class. There is 10 (lowest), next is 17 (!). That's why both KS 125 and KS 175 were in the same class - as the next step is 27 (!!) which Zundapp could not reach with the KS 175, so they kept it low and rather timed that engine to deliver tremedous torque which made for very relaxed riding at top speeds of around 130 km/h, but these also with two persons and up hills!

And yes, there is no air cooled KS 175 variant, this was an own development by Enfield. Maybe because the water colled cylinders and/or cololer radiators would have made the bike too expensive? After all, the KS 175 was always the most expensive bike on both thet displacement and power classes, a Japanese 250 was way cheaper than that 175. There are, however, air-cooled production trial and offroad bikes (GS 175 and MC 175) which were never sold to the public. Zundapp became world champion in offroad and trial almost every year at that time.

Now, looking at the Indian-spec Explorer i would guess that it has the same specs as the KS 50 in Germany - as i spot a rather large carburetor and also an exhaust that looks like the one on the KS 50 (which nowadays is a very popular tuning-device for speed-restricted Mokicks in germany!) so i guess that the Indian Explorer probably has 6.25 or more horse power and five-speed gear box? Please enlighten me, i am curious.

And finally, two pictures of KS 175 Mk I and Mk II. The latter looks like the Fury "DS" but water cooled. The difference, apart from the looks, is in the front - the Mk I used a "Paioli" fork and "Grimeca" brakes, while the Mk II (which i owned) has a "Marzocchi" fork and "Brembo" brake. Those items were also reasons for that bike's extremely hhigh price, but then - even in Germany one could not buy a bike with higher quality in that class.

BMW by the way used that same front brake in a number of their, much heavier and stronger, bikes.

Oh, @powertwin again
The German KS 125/KS 175 NEVER used an intake resonator! If the Fury got it then it is an Indian development..... and the long-travel gears are typical for Zundapp, many people at the time kept complaining about it because they were too lazy to move their feet - for me (ok but i have rather large feet) it is ideal, i keep cursing the Japanese short-travel shifters - like with my RXZ's, getting into Neutral is a piece of art! Up-down-up-down and when i finally got it in Neutral inevitably the lights turn green and i have to put in first again. With the Zundapp, saving fuel on downhill stretches is so easy - from any gear a gentle tap downwards and you got one of the Neutral's (there's one between ever gear!) and can let it roll in idle. And yes, the engine jumping around in it's rubber mounts is also typical for the KS 175 but hey, do you know another two-stroke that runs rock stable at 400 (yes four hundred) rpm? And there is no such thing as a stalling problem with a KS 175.... even letting the clucth go at idle makes the bike start jumping forward instead of stalling, almost like a Diesel. Maybe Enfield has different timings than Zundapp and hence much less torque..?

With kind regards....

your Thanh
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Old 4th April 2009, 21:41   #45
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Default Thankx a lot Thanh !!!

@ Thanh:
Thanks a lot for the info furnished by you & for the wonderful pics of my fav machines.
Yes as said,When Enfeild india,owned rights to produce the four bikes of Zundapp, namely KS175 ( Fury DX175), KS50 (Explorer CS50), a step through- German version name not known (Silver Plus) & Mofa 22cc.
They opted for Air-cooled engines for KS 175 & KS50 and got the Cylinders designed and they were manufacterd outside India ( plz see the pic I have posted)
Though intially ckd kits were imported to India from Germany( particularly for Fury DX 175) for Fury, the Barrels was also imported, but not from Germany.
(The barrels had the "Enfeild' logo in the casting & piston rings from NIPPON of Japan)
The rings are "Dyker" type.
If we observe the "porting map" of Fury, we can slightly understand the way they have de-tuned the Engine from 17 to 14.2 bhp.( happen to see a KS 175's port map at a German site at the time of my Fury res project)
Till this moment, I have been arguing that Zundapp people should be given the credit for introducing the "Resonator" in 2 stroke engines,but from your statement,the credit should go to our "Enfeild Engineers" ( Japenese totally re-defined this..)
Reg your interest in "EXPLORER'S figures, sure will post tomm if possible.
@ Sid:
Will post pics & comments on my Fury's restoration project...very soon ( sure will guide you in sourcing parts.....No Barrels & pistons Iam sure)
If you are interested, I can send you the parts catalogue for GP 175, which will be useful in your restoration project
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