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Old 16th April 2009, 06:05   #16
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Fantastic effort Rennjit. Very very neatly executed.

Like Jaggu mentioned, make changes to the exhaust. Go in for a fully calculated twin expansion chamber on the same side. If you are interested, I am happy to introduce you to my friend, Srinivas (many may know him as Bud) in Bangalore who is an ex-TVS employee. We used to consult him to design expansion chambers for our rally and drag rx-100s and shoguns around a decade ago. I am sure he will be glad to help in a project like this.

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Old 16th April 2009, 07:18   #17
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I missed adding this info in my previous post...

@Black12rr: This has been done on fourstrokes as well. Below is a link to something similar that has been done on a donor 500cc royal enfield in Australia, but different in that this is done in a 'V' configuration.

Check this out:
Welcome to CARBERRY ENFIELD
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Old 16th April 2009, 09:33   #18
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Great work, buddy the finish of the engine is really confidence inspiring. So the crank is a single piece or a split design? Has it been started with the new crank?
Your exhaust design will loose power from the engine [twin combined].
A big round of applause to you.
Now I can forward this to people who though [and told me ]this could not be done here in India.
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Old 16th April 2009, 09:47   #19
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great job!! unbelievable! you cud try two separate expansion chambers instead of a 2*1 .. you can also put a balance pipe/ boost bottle between the manifolds by putting in two supra power-up manifolds .
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Old 16th April 2009, 10:21   #20
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Grateful for all your response.
On the specification front most parts are stock but doubled / extended as required.

Engine: 200cc 2-Stroke parallel graft twin.
Crank setup: 180 degree, split crank (2 regulars mechanically connected ).
Case: Aligned on studs running RH to LH. No Welding.
Ignition: Stock coil plate & CDI with 2 HT coils (uses second waste spark for 2nd cyl).
Carburation: Twin stock carbs (vm18?), Manifold(supra) balancer tube, foam filter on carb.
Exhaust: currently 2 into 1.

Rest all stock. Intention was to have a machine which would pull ie., Torque-On with minimum throttle & clutch work, carry on like my Enfield. I'm a slow lazy kind!

Ok., I need help on these areas:-

Q1/ Is any 30-32-34 rear sprocket available. I've been told RX runs 34.

Q2/ Clutch slip. Terrible. Had the springs a bit loaded but no use. Any transplant/ upgrade options?

Q3/ Would the max engine RPM reduce when compared to a single cylinder. I feel its true.

Twin pipes looks killer -sounds too! Had the setup for first tests. Removed it being too loud & both sounded different may be because of pipe routing & bends. Didn't like looks/ unnecessary attention. I would get a proper twin exhaust made, don't know when-where.

@Sankar: pls just hint on detail you look for. I'm confused on which is useful & not.
@JayD: i'm at Thripunithura. shall try but no cab, Bullet will do?. & Are u in someway connected to a Sunbeam. Think i read so.
@Desideep: You were first to spot this, think last year though at some other forum.
@Santhosh: Would be happy to have pipes form Mr. Srinivas, may be next months.

Shall post the few WIP pictures with me sooner.
bye.,
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Old 16th April 2009, 14:00   #21
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CONGRATS.. so your dream project finally taking shape.


Note from Mods : Post edited. 2 smileys max. You must take a look at the team-BHP rules & this thread before continuing. Thanks.

Last edited by Rehaan : 16th April 2009 at 14:09. Reason: Please see the note that has been put at the end of your post by the Support Team.
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Old 16th April 2009, 23:31   #22
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Yes, I think RX was running 34 teeth, it's been to long so don't remember the sprocket sizes,but shogun also was some where in between.
As for the clutch, try adding more plates first and than load the spring, this will give the clutch more friction area.
You will need to balance the crank after doing this as this will put extra weight on one side and create imbalance.
RXG had this problem when it was launched.
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Old 17th April 2009, 01:45   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennjit View Post
Grateful for all your response.
On the specification front most parts are stock but doubled / extended as required.

Engine: 200cc 2-Stroke parallel graft twin.
Crank setup: 180 degree, split crank (2 regulars mechanically connected ).
Case: Aligned on studs running RH to LH. No Welding.
Ignition: Stock coil plate & CDI with 2 HT coils (uses second waste spark for 2nd cyl).
Carburation: Twin stock carbs (vm18?), Manifold(supra) balancer tube, foam filter on carb.
Exhaust: currently 2 into 1.

Rest all stock. Intention was to have a machine which would pull ie., Torque-On with minimum throttle & clutch work, carry on like my Enfield. I'm a slow lazy kind!

Ok., I need help on these areas:-

Q1/ Is any 30-32-34 rear sprocket available. I've been told RX runs 34.

Q2/ Clutch slip. Terrible. Had the springs a bit loaded but no use. Any transplant/ upgrade options?

bye.,
Absolutely brilliant project idea Renjit and great execution too. Congrats!

Do you have any pictures of the crank and the engine case/s before assembly.

For a clutch, try out something from the more powerful bikes like Apache, Karizma etc. You might need to make some modification to make it fit.

Last edited by Mpower : 17th April 2009 at 01:46.
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Old 17th April 2009, 12:42   #24
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Post pre assembly pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinar View Post
You will need to balance the crank after doing this as this will put extra weight on one side and create imbalance.
If Balancing is required, i'm not going for extra plates now. Dynamic balancing- could get tougher than building an engine. But would an extra plate set cause that much unbalance.

Q3/ Would the max engine RPM reduce when compared to a single cylinder?
Q4/ Does Shogun/ Shaolin run same clutch set?

Pictures, i usually take whenever i open up engine. So i have those of Case - cylinder set & not of internals.
Attached Thumbnails
The Double Barrel of Hope : AX-200 twin-30122007113.jpg  

The Double Barrel of Hope : AX-200 twin-30122007115.jpg  

The Double Barrel of Hope : AX-200 twin-30122007121.jpg  

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Old 17th April 2009, 15:07   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennjit View Post
If Balancing is required, i'm not going for extra plates now. Dynamic balancing- could get tougher than building an engine. But would an extra plate set cause that much unbalance.

Q3/ Would the max engine RPM reduce when compared to a single cylinder?
Q4/ Does Shogun/ Shaolin run same clutch set?

Pictures, i usually take whenever i open up engine. So i have those of Case - cylinder set & not of internals.

There won't much imbalance, and since you have a twin cylinder setup this won't matter much.But it's always better to know about it.
I believe the shaolin had more number of plates than the shogun the diameter is same. So ti will fit in the case.
Also as Mpower mentioned try clutch from bigger bikes, don't know if they'll fit or handle the stress of the two stroke power delivery. I always found the old strokers had better clutch than what are put on the new 4 stroke bikes. But I may be wrong.

One more thing why you kept some much of the case material? any particular reason? [the area marked with the red box] cause this thing will add on weight as well as crank length and the length of the primary drive shaft to the gear box.that equals to stresses.
Attached Thumbnails
The Double Barrel of Hope : AX-200 twin-301220071131.jpg  


Last edited by dinar : 17th April 2009 at 15:17.
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Old 17th April 2009, 15:33   #26
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what can i say bro? awesome!

get us some vids of her running if possible and get a front disc setup and maybe some R15 rubbers.

oh and i think that all suzuki bikes from ind suzuki to shogun (including samurai and shaolin) had the same clutch. i've heard even fiero has but with my low MQ maybe that's not true!

Last edited by silver_shadow : 17th April 2009 at 15:34.
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Old 18th April 2009, 01:54   #27
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Woow!!! Congrats Man Truly Great to see the passion involved & must i say that is a very neat looking engine you got done there.Also how did you connect both the cranks? Do they run alternatively like in the RD? Now Specs Specs Specs..

Cheers!!!

Last edited by Rehaan : 18th April 2009 at 15:40. Reason: gr8 = great. Please avoid SMS language on Team-BHP as per the rules.
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Old 18th April 2009, 19:06   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinar View Post
One more thing why you kept some much of the case material? any particular reason? [the area marked with the red box] cause this thing will add on weight as well as crank length and the length of the primary drive shaft to the gear box.that equals to stresses.
That portion just Cannot be removed. It supports all transmission shafts.
No much effect on weight (aluminium not even 500gms) or on crank- primary length etc & stress, all being stock.
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Old 19th April 2009, 00:24   #29
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Damn, Rennjit. Simply amazing.

Where in Cochin do you stay? I'm from Kadavanthra.....I'd like to come take a look at the bike myself!
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Old 19th April 2009, 08:57   #30
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Hi Rennjit, try to graft in a Shogun's or Shaolin's clutch and it might take care of the slippage. Which of these two engines have the clutch and transmission is it the one on the right?

Integrating multiple engines as you have done, were done in the drag bikes of olden days. They put two, three or four similar engines one behind the other and the output shafts were connected together with chain/gear and all engines together they used to drive a single transmission.

Why i'm saying this is since what you have is two different engines and two separate cranks that is connected together, i think it would be better if the output of the two engines is combined at the primary and drive a transmission off it. Instead of connecting the cranks together and driving the transmission off one crank. If it was a one piece crankshaft then such a configuration would've been right. But since both cranks are bolted toghether, the joint could be a weak link especially if the engines are out of sync and of course the dynamic balancing of the coupler and if the crank ends are not true.
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