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Old 19th April 2009, 18:09   #31
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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
, i think it would be better if the output of the two engines is combined at the primary and drive a transmission off it. Instead of connecting the cranks together and driving the transmission off one crank..
but how do you do it? The GB input gear is on the LHS You almost need the second engine to sit on top of the trans and run a chain down to the GB input.

If you put the second engine next the first you almost need to connect to the other end of GB input shaft.
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Old 19th April 2009, 19:55   #32
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Damn! Twin cylinder AX100!

Just a couple of days after I met another Ranjit who has allegedly made an RD700 sometime back, putting together 2 RD350 blocks.

Ride on, and write on!
Steer

You meant Ratheesh right?

Guys from Chennai will remember him as Rado

Regards

Ram
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Old 19th April 2009, 21:12   #33
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Fantastic effort Rennjit. Hats off to you!!!
I'm from TPN, but rarely there. Would like to meet up the next time I'm home. Will PM you when I'm ready with my travel plans

@Steer
Any further details on the 4 cylinder RD? Inline4 or V?
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Old 19th April 2009, 22:56   #34
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
but how do you do it? The GB input gear is on the LHS You almost need the second engine to sit on top of the trans and run a chain down to the GB input.

If you put the second engine next the first you almost need to connect to the other end of GB input shaft.
Yes it's hard, the engine configuration has to be changed. For this to work the engines have to be placed in tandem, that's how those bikes had it. Chassis will have to be altered, lengthened. I think running two separate engines in parallel and integrating them to work as one, what he has done now is the best. If the dynamic balancing is done and crank end runout of both cranks taken care of then it should be okay.
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Old 20th April 2009, 01:02   #35
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Thanks to many who assisted, special ones to ‘Gopiyettan & Titus’ always inspiring me to complete, share views & facts, tow the frame & what not, and above all tolerating my questions which at times even I didn’t understand.
Ever welcome boss! The assistance was basically hauling stuff, sharing views was going "hmm..hmm..." to renjits tech banter and toleration consisted of not cursing him for laying stray cranks on the apartment floor for me to trip up on!

The Ax200 is his baby and its been like I have practically seen him in labor

It was a special experience to take her for a short spin!
Very smooth, when you open the throttle there is a slight hesitation, and then she takes off like her tail is on fire and then strains like on a leash! Yes it is very much undergeared. Inspite of all this, it is a much welcome relief from the mundane riding experience of my p180!
I gather that the rx 5 speed came with 16/38 and 4 speed came with 16/34.Is this info correct? Any other sprocket less than 34t?
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Last edited by bmw_m5_titus : 20th April 2009 at 01:14. Reason: added pics.
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Old 20th April 2009, 14:36   #36
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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Why i'm saying this is since what you have is two different engines and two separate cranks that is connected together, ....

But since both cranks are bolted toghether, the joint could be a weak link especially if the engines are out of sync and of course the dynamic balancing of the coupler and if the crank ends are not true.

Hi Sankar, ^^ too much for me in a single post. Let me try one each .

Clutch & transmission is on rightside itself.

Integrating multiple engines is different. As you said, it has many seperate / independent engines powering a common transmission unit thru chain/belt/gear etc. One engine can keep on spinning on its own. Think it is correctly called Tandem engine. Rather a double engine in this case than a double cylinder. Hope i got it right.
Craziest ones of such :a 48 cyl Kawasaki & a Chainsaw powered bike. Bro' Titus pl help with some info.

The AX200 is One engine having single flywheel magneto-coil, single clutch, primary & tranny. And crank, only difference is that it is an assembly of 2 units but uses no Nut-Bolts. Fires exactly 180 degrees in sync. Seems my terminology is erratic to cause such confusion.

We had many (very) old machines running similar setup (inspirations!!). You must have seen RD's crank, it also is of 2 mains assembled.

Ofcourse the Crank joint here is the weakest link though it is made to behave self aligning. I'm just testing it now & have a few more sparks left for different setups.

explain a bit more on the need & effect of "dynamic balancing and the crank ends are not true" front. I had not given serious thoughts to it. Pls feel free to correct me, welcome always.
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Old 20th April 2009, 16:46   #37
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Looks cool man,me did a similar job on a fiero long ago but a 'V'.Why not do a similar one on the RD and run it in the open class,would be a killer
cheers
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Old 20th April 2009, 17:16   #38
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..,me did a similar job on a fiero long ago but a 'V'
cheers
Welcome sir. I was about to list Graft works done before. Here are those known to me -
1/ Fiero V-twin of Venugopal
2/ Enfield V-twin of Aniketh

3/ Twin engined (one behind the other, connected by belt over flywheel) Kinetic honda made by some students as project. read about this in some magazine years ago.
4/ RD700 mentioned by steeroid & r_nair.

First two has topic Threads here itself. Don't have further details on the rest two. Anyone pls? And yes similar Graft works known to you.
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Old 21st April 2009, 11:21   #39
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Rennjit awesome work man, you made me thinking now

Some suggestions :

1) if there is any space left why don't you add a shaolin gear box.

2) Keep your stock carb aside and plonk a Mikuni Vm-26 and uni filters and watch her take off in every gear.

3) For the clutch plates try fibre clutch plates these will defently handle more power and avoid slippage.

4) An rx-135 4 speed comes with 16-34 sprockets, 5 speed comes with 16-38 if you need anything lesser than 34 you have to get a custom made.

5) Give the bike better brakes plonk in an rtr disc set up along with a fiero or fiero f2 hub, which will hardly set you back by 4k.


I am glued to this thread
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Old 21st April 2009, 14:30   #40
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Damn, Rennjit. Simply amazing.

Where in Cochin do you stay? I'm from Kadavanthra.....I'd like to come take a look at the bike myself!
This was post #21, and now it's #29, and there are a lot of posts before this one that I'm SURE were posted after this one! Wonder how that happened.

Looks like I got my answer, anyway.

Rennjit, from the background of the pictures of your bike posted by titus, it seems you stay in the Star homes complex, is that right? Been there to check out a flat a long time ago, but don't remember the way.
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Old 21st April 2009, 17:21   #41
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Wow! Neat execution there Rennjit. Like the way the way you have not gone over the top. We were discussing this last weekend here in Dubai and I had get online and see this. Need to read through the thread in detail. Apart from clutch issues, what problems are you facing? Do fill in as much details as possible and pictures as well.

ps: Been a while since I had logged in and this thread does the needful.
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Old 21st April 2009, 19:39   #42
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Originally Posted by ev1lsyk0 View Post
This was post #21, and now it's #29, and there are a lot of posts before this one that I'm SURE were posted after this one! Wonder how that happened.

Looks like I got my answer, anyway.

Rennjit, from the background of the pictures of your bike posted by titus, it seems you stay in the Star homes complex, is that right? Been there to check out a flat a long time ago, but don't remember the way.
ev1lsyk0, Bulls eye!

Prajeep, I just rode it again after renjit changed over to the 34t rear sprocket. Bike felt damn good, and I was telling him that it badly needed a disc setup, and was suggesting the rtr s like you did. Are you sure about the cost factor? No need to change the change fork bottom?
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Old 21st April 2009, 19:43   #43
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Originally Posted by Rennjit View Post
Hi Sankar, ^^ too much for me in a single post. Let me try one each .

Clutch & transmission is on rightside itself.

Integrating multiple engines is different. As you said, it has many seperate / independent engines powering a common transmission unit thru chain/belt/gear etc. One engine can keep on spinning on its own. Think it is correctly called Tandem engine. Rather a double engine in this case than a double cylinder. Hope i got it right.
Craziest ones of such :a 48 cyl Kawasaki & a Chainsaw powered bike. Bro' Titus pl help with some info.

The AX200 is One engine having single flywheel magneto-coil, single clutch, primary & tranny. And crank, only difference is that it is an assembly of 2 units but uses no Nut-Bolts. Fires exactly 180 degrees in sync. Seems my terminology is erratic to cause such confusion.

We had many (very) old machines running similar setup (inspirations!!). You must have seen RD's crank, it also is of 2 mains assembled.

Ofcourse the Crank joint here is the weakest link though it is made to behave self aligning. I'm just testing it now & have a few more sparks left for different setups.

explain a bit more on the need & effect of "dynamic balancing and the crank ends are not true" front. I had not given serious thoughts to it. Pls feel free to correct me, welcome always.
Yes those are tandem engines, driving a common transmission. The reason why i used the 'integrated engines' while referring to your engine is because it is two engines integrated together (i wouldnt say bolted since the bolted is too simple a term to describe your awesome efforts). I say it's integrated since the engine is made out of four crankcase halves, not a simple feat by any means but still not a single engine. That's why i mentioned that while integrating two engines doing it at the primary would be better.

Dynamic balancing is similar to wheel balancing..adding and taking off weight to balance the rotating mass so as to eliminate vibrations that develop which can destroy the engines. The coupling mechanism must be balanced for best performance and reliability.

Since the crank is not a single piece and so you have connected both ends together using a coupler. Both these cranks are reset and installed into their respective crank cases. Ideally crank ends should rotate on it's axis true without a wobble. This is called zero runout and is hard to achieve but there's a safe limit for runout and it is a variable. The runouts on either cranks might be different and may not be closely matched. When such two crank ends, with different unmatched run outs, are connected together using a coupler it may negatively affect reliability. If the runouts are perfect then it's okay.

it's due to these two reasons why i said connecting both engines at the primary using a chain might have been better. These are my opinions; i do admire your creation

Btw you have mentioned self aligning crank joint. What is done and how does it self align?
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Old 21st April 2009, 20:17   #44
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Originally Posted by Rennjit View Post
... to list Graft works done before. ...
I missed mentioning INDIAN attempts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
.....Btw you have mentioned self aligning crank joint. What is done and how does it self align?
I have to learn a lot about balancing & methods which could be tried on such setup to enhance reliability & output. I do know basics but still find it hard to digest concept of balancing the system inclusive of reciprocating masses. Googaal pls help.

And by self aligning i meant the coupler is made so that it would enable assembling only if the crank axes are true. yes within a tolerance limit.
Else the cases would not get together to fit / crank wont rotate free. Coupler is supported (partial) at ends in bearings to line up with the case as well.

on reliability advantage of engines connected at primary. I choose this setup more as a test to me & machine.
Changed to 34T rear sprocket & bike now behaves civilized. Seems it could go down to rear 30T/ 14T front with no output enhancements. Shall try later.
Clutch also is Ok with some minor adjustments.
Brakes especially front is next big thing. Want Disc on same forks, its been another wish pending many years.

bye.,
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Old 22nd April 2009, 13:47   #45
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Firstly congrats on the job. It looks really neat.
A few pointers.
The shaolin and shogun clutch plates is the same as teh AX100. Your only luck is in using stiffer custom made springs. Even the Fiero shares the same clutch and I've done my share of mods and nothing lasted too long. That clutch mechanism itself is a dud.
The Shogun and samura/ax100 has a different clutch drive. The shogun is 51T and samurai is 50T.
As for the rear sproket, 34 is more than whats needed, coz the stock is 41T. Thats quite a lot of reduction.
FYI, you cannot shov a shaolin GB as a few mentioned here coz the crank case is wider inside in the shaolin to accomodate the extra cog.
The 2 into 1 exhaust is not a good idea as it will affect the scvanging process. Use 2 pipes instead. Chambers will start making the engine peaky and with a twin like this you need to be sure that the crank is dynamically well balanced before you look at revving its nutts off.
All the best.

Joel
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