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Old 31st January 2012, 02:34   #391
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Default Re: All about Two stroke (2T) oils

I'll call and check tomorrow and get back on this.
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Old 31st January 2012, 10:59   #392
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Ok final post on this thread.. since we are discussing the best oil here for your 2 strokes please use nothing another than Fully Synth. 510 and all are fine for street rides that dont rev to the moon . Lots of shops here in Blore have got full stock of Motul 800 . Cost 700 bucks a litre . Agip Full Synth costs 500 bucks old stock donno if its still available. For the rest u can use good ol' bunk oil - use a little more like say 60ml a litre . And i recomend using premix all the way. no lub failure . no tension.

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Old 31st January 2012, 17:05   #393
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^^^Fully synth is obviously the way to go, but its just too expensive! Motul 510 I feel is the perfect balance between the two, both in terms of price and performance. Whats more, Motul 800 can't be used with autolube. :( And I'm a proponent of oil injection for reasons discussed in earlier posts.

Bunk oil is no good for anything, IMHO. Nor is stuff like MAK. In the very least, one should use something like Shell. But why not pay li'l more and try 510 it will just blow everything far away, except of course Motul 800 (if using pre-mix).

I'v not seen Agip anywhere here. Any leads on where one could source it in Poona? How does it compare to say Motul 800?

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Old 31st January 2012, 19:44   #394
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Raccoon this thread has been going on for ever & seems to me like its going no where. There is no compromise on lubrication . If ur going to compromise - it means your saying ok to wear and tear on a high revving motor everytime you peak it- and if ur going to compromise on engine life - i dont see anything wrong with bunk oil - call it extreme but to a drag motor - u putting in something like shell or 510 semi synth is no different than putting in bunk oil. Putting in Fully Synthetic Lub on the other hand- something like Motul 800 or Agip fully synth makes a world of a difference - and definately helps ur motor last. Here is my experience : At the last drag in CBE - we used fully synth Agip for our first 2 runs after which we ran of oil and used " Shell " - our engine, promptly grenaded itself 10 meters before the 400 meter mark. Also just fyi - you are not supposed to run in a fresh top end on Fully Synth oil like Motul 800 bcas the lubrication is so effective is do not let the rings seal. Shell on the other hand is crap - tried it for a few months - now i dont even use it for my street rides. I use bunk oil and top it up with some fully synth , a ratio of about 70% bunk oil ( mak/racer 2t ) & 30% synth (Agip) - i can do this becas I run premix. And w.r.t your love for oil injection all I can say is that you are wrong - but experience speaks for itself , just make sure your oil pump never, ever fails

I find Agip as good as Motul 800 - it does not smell as good as motul though the oil is thick and translucent amber unlike the thicker and red coloured motul. Look up for Agip dealerships in Poona . If ur lucky u might hit up some old stock.

ps: btw mak2t is semi-synth

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Old 31st January 2012, 22:10   #395
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^^^I quite understand that your needs are different. I don't do drag racing. My need is for an unmodified bike which sees moderate kinda revving on streets and highways (90 - 100 kmph when on highway). My need is that the engine should last as long as possible with minimum carbon accumulation. A smooth engine is a bonus. All this seems to be very well afforded by Motul 510 at a saner price. Nowhere have I mentioned that fully synth is not better, but I'm not ready to pay 800 bucks for a bottle of oil; now that Jet X has been discontinued. Thats all I'v said.

As for Shell, there are 2 variants. You are probably talking about the low end variant that comes in a white bottles? I can't recall the names. All I'v said is that it (the higher end variant) might be the best choice amongst the lower priced oils.

I'm not for mixing oils. Wouldn't be confident about the resulting witche's brew. Good if it works for you.

As for MAK being semi-synth, all FC oils are semi-synth. Guess I'd elaborated on this in some post sometime ago.
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Old 31st January 2012, 23:58   #396
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Its called Shell Advance VSX. It comes in a green bottle. And it is crap. I can vouch for that. Semi - Synth is always gonna be semi synth - call it any name or brand u want and u can go on discussing this to the death. The witches brew has been working for a lot of people I know for a very long time. And yea most of them on modded motors that see alot of revvs and abuse and others on more saner rides who just like to play safe and see a motor last.

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Old 1st February 2012, 10:50   #397
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haha just thought about this thread in the morning . so it turns out that my bike feels better on speed 97 into which i just mixed in little bit of my Agip that i keep in Motul 510 can cas of the side measurement :P anyway heres a great linky for u . About Two Stroke Oils and Premix
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Old 1st February 2012, 16:48   #398
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^^^Thanks for the link... went thru it very fast - I'v been thru most of all that quite sometime ago.

Thats right, its VSX. When you say its crap, what are you comparing it with? If you comparing with Motul 800, you can say pretty much everything else is crap. As I'd mentioned, since Jet X is no longer available, whats the next best option in that price range?

One mistake - I mentioned API FC above. It should be API TC. Sorry for the mixup... been away from this subject for quite sometime, so... :(

How much does Speed 97 cost now? Technically, I know it should not make any difference, but in real many have reported better performance with it, even in cars. Hmm...

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Old 1st February 2012, 18:04   #399
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i think you should spend a little more time reading it - especially the part where he discusses oil injection and its drawbacks on a more serious note everytime I read something like this after putting in some hard running street time it gives me a new perspective. I am running a high compression piped motor for street use ( yes i am mad ) - so ive been advised by the motor builder to use high octane gas and nothing other than motul 800 . i didnt really feel much of a difference with 97 - the vibes dropped but then i felt a drop in torque - motor revs freeer . actually too early to say as there was normal petrol too mixed in the tank and i just did this today - should be able to tell more over the next few kilometers of hard riding .

with regards to shell - the oil is really thin - has not been able to prevent wear and tear on a much more stockish motor - by wear n tear i mean clearance sounds seemed to increase and the oil did nothing to prevent it - i switched to mak and the synth mix after that ( what you call the witches brew infact most of the time ive used only mak @ a mix of 60 ml to 1.2 lires of petrol) and im not complaining. no increase in clearance - no seizures , barely much of a carbon build up. but yea as you know nothing beats fully synth. i figure if u can afford something like 510 anyway ( which is around 500 bucks ) why cry about an extra 200 bucks for the best oil in the world you can get your hands on. makes sense no ?
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Old 2nd February 2012, 17:08   #400
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Nope,, still lookin!!
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Old 3rd March 2012, 02:43   #401
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Originally Posted by 2StrokeJunkie View Post
i think you should spend a little more time reading it - especially the part where he discusses oil injection and its drawbacks on a more serious note everytime I read something like this after putting in some hard running street time it gives me a new perspective. I am running a high compression piped motor for street use ( yes i am mad ) - so ive been advised by the motor builder to use high octane gas and nothing other than motul 800 . i didnt really feel much of a difference with 97 - the vibes dropped but then i felt a drop in torque - motor revs freeer . actually too early to say as there was normal petrol too mixed in the tank and i just did this today - should be able to tell more over the next few kilometers of hard riding .

with regards to shell - the oil is really thin - has not been able to prevent wear and tear on a much more stockish motor - by wear n tear i mean clearance sounds seemed to increase and the oil did nothing to prevent it - i switched to mak and the synth mix after that ( what you call the witches brew infact most of the time ive used only mak @ a mix of 60 ml to 1.2 lires of petrol) and im not complaining. no increase in clearance - no seizures , barely much of a carbon build up. but yea as you know nothing beats fully synth. i figure if u can afford something like 510 anyway ( which is around 500 bucks ) why cry about an extra 200 bucks for the best oil in the world you can get your hands on. makes sense no ?
Sorry for the late reply. Been too caught up. Just catching up with older posts.

Like everything else, premix and auto lube have their pros and cons. Everything like that isn't it? Though we often go overboard and think only one way is the right way. Actually in this case auto lube is superior in ALL except one count - reliability. The dreaded fear of the pump failing! Well, actually even pre mix can "fail". How? Well, in my case my gun is infrequently used. And petroil mixture is known to separate with time. This in itself may lead to lube failure! This part of it may of course not be applicable to you since you may be using your bike frequently/extensively.

Further, I dunno about others here, but I don't feel good by being the cause of increased pollution. And there is no denying that you would be polluting a LOT more with your petroil than I'll be with my autolube.

Given the pros and cons, I'v put my money on the pump. And so far so good.

Even in the days when 2 strokers were in, how many pump failures have you noted?

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Nope,, still lookin!!
If you need help or pointers, lemme know where you are stuck.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 09:14   #402
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Ok raccon i get ur point that u just love the pump . I have disconnected and reconnected the Oil Pump on my RX which is my pet project x all the time and it has never given me any issues, rite now im running it on premix due to the fact that i have to run synthetic in the interest of prolonging the engine life and hence my enjoyment. On my 350 i never played with the oil pump and it always worked perfectly until one day on a ride to the out-skirts with a bunch of other 350 riders my oil cable snapped... and the rest is history. Thankfully on that day there was a good samaritan who happened to be a premixer armed with motul 800 who came to my rescue. ever since then i have lost complete faith in the oil pump - my experience and the experience of others helped me come to this conclusion. A complete engine meltdown due to oil pump failure is just not worth it when you know there is a simple way around it by just premixing. Also with regards to oil and gas separating in the tank - all u need to do is shake the bike from side to side before u start it. That is my habit before i take out my bikes in the morning everyday. Cannot say much on the pollution factor - my RD350 raises up a smoke screen behind her in a minute of idling. But i love the bike so to me vintage 2 strokes and fighting pollution do not make sense. They arnt politically correct and that is precisely why i love them. Any luck in zeroing down on your preferred oil ?

And which regards to your query on Speed 97 - yes i feel alot of difference. The bike sounds completely different - very crisp and eager to rev - runs cool and no knocking/ deto. So yes that a very good thing. And engine performance is better. However for a stock motor i dont think it makes much sense running 97 octane.

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Old 3rd March 2012, 17:18   #403
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In my experience with 2stroke jap bikes what I have observed is that between SuZuki's and Yamaha's, the oil pump failure is more common in the Yam's. The Suzuki engines area more tolerant for running without 2t oil.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 20:01   #404
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Ok raccon i get ur point that u just love the pump . I have disconnected and reconnected the Oil Pump on my RX which is my pet project x all the time and it has never given me any issues, rite now im running it on premix due to the fact that i have to run synthetic in the interest of prolonging the engine life and hence my enjoyment. On my 350 i never played with the oil pump and it always worked perfectly until one day on a ride to the out-skirts with a bunch of other 350 riders my oil cable snapped... and the rest is history. Thankfully on that day there was a good samaritan who happened to be a premixer armed with motul 800 who came to my rescue. ever since then i have lost complete faith in the oil pump - my experience and the experience of others helped me come to this conclusion. A complete engine meltdown due to oil pump failure is just not worth it when you know there is a simple way around it by just premixing. Also with regards to oil and gas separating in the tank - all u need to do is shake the bike from side to side before u start it. That is my habit before i take out my bikes in the morning everyday. Cannot say much on the pollution factor - my RD350 raises up a smoke screen behind her in a minute of idling. But i love the bike so to me vintage 2 strokes and fighting pollution do not make sense. They arnt politically correct and that is precisely why i love them. Any luck in zeroing down on your preferred oil ?

And which regards to your query on Speed 97 - yes i feel alot of difference. The bike sounds completely different - very crisp and eager to rev - runs cool and no knocking/ deto. So yes that a very good thing. And engine performance is better. However for a stock motor i dont think it makes much sense running 97 octane.
You are scaring me now. Maybe I should get the cable changed as a precaution... since its quite old now? It has never been changed till date.

Are you sure that just a shake will make it a mixture again?? I fear it will seperate again, in minutes. Volatile fractions of gasolene evaporate and even the oil may change its properties. I seriously doubt you can reverse the changes just but shaking it.

Technically as I said Speed 97 should make no difference on a stock engine. However, we have to consider issues like adulteration and all to figure in. I suspect that may often be the case of 97 performing better where it shouldn't/cant.

Any luck with my preffered oil? Didn't get that? Currently using Motul 510 (mixed with the remaining Castrol Jet X that was in the tank) and bike feels really awesome. Feels like 510 is the best thing that happened to my bike.

Btw whats the correct way to disconnect the pump without harming it? Just running it dry I'm sure would lead to damage...?

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In my experience with 2stroke jap bikes what I have observed is that between SuZuki's and Yamaha's, the oil pump failure is more common in the Yam's. The Suzuki engines area more tolerant for running without 2t oil.
Which models of Suzuki and Yamaha are you talking about?
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Old 4th March 2012, 23:01   #405
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Which models of Suzuki and Yamaha are you talking about?

Rx 100 v Ax 100 and Rx 135 v Shaolin.
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