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Old 2nd November 2009, 00:46   #46
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Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
I agree sir. But, the tacho, an electronic one at that, still remains the most "accurate" way to measure rpms. ... The equations take me straight back to my 12th standard.
Mr. Heisenberg, if alive, would have shoot your accuracy logic and Mr Einstein would have further blurred your reason. What? Looking at the Tacho while riding? You couldn't be riding the bike and reading the tach at the same time? That is impossible!!

Do not agree? Dig your physics class notes further or did you bunk that class for a Bollywood flick down the road?

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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
We all understand the math you are using. Believe me.. even a 6th grader would.

However, the point remains that it is a commonly accepted belief that mobike speedos are inaccurate and usually too optimistic.

Also most of your relations are linear. I agree that is how they are, but failing to take into account any t-losses and existing retardants

Lets get back to 4s v/s 5s.
Sir,

It is all real. I am not referring to speedo error or t-losses etc. 100 KMPH is the max speed claimed (refer tech specs on RE website and user manual for 350 CI). That means, the engine, in practice, never revs beyond ~4000 RPM while running on road (refer gear/rpm formula). Which is perfectly fine- 80% of max power output, rest is lost as t-loss, heat, friction, etc

However, 5s will be more fuel efficient and relaxed, because, it does 100 KM/h at a 10% lesser RPM (becuase of 2 extra teeth in top gear) than 4s.

Trust it helps.
-BJ

Last edited by bj96 : 2nd November 2009 at 00:56.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 01:10   #47
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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
@BJ and Jay

Stop this futile argument. We regard you guys as experts. Insane arguing does not bode well for your images.

Me, and expert. Haha.

@BJ.

All said, your analysis has been an eye-opener. I never looked at the issue from this side.

@Jay

Relax man! No one is going to point unjustified fingers at RE.


Now please break up this argument.

Lets get back to 4s v/s 5s.
Since you've now said it, let's move on.

Ok, nothing moves it for me like the STD350.

Agreed, the UCE500 and the AVL500 is quick, but what is the whole point?
I do crazy speeds on my LB500 always focussed on the next corner or to avoid the moron trying to kill himself by sauntering across the highway. The scenery just flies by with me wishing I could ride slow to enjoy it. But, can I do 40-50 in fifth on my LB? I'd detonate my piston to smithereens.

IMHO, pure bulleting is when you can thump along in 4th at 40-50 and watch the world go by. It is about slowing down time and reveling in it. When you ride a STD350 leisurely up a hill on a misty morning, enjoying the scenery, thumping along, you will understand how it really feels. Pure magic, words can't describe it. You need to feel it for yourself. So, why the 4S instead of the STD350? TCI and disc brakes, period. Why not the 5S? No right shifter. Yes, the 5S gearbox is way slicker than the 4S but why do you need a oh-so-slick gearbox when your sole purpose is to ride S-L-O-W into the sunset? You want to win traffic light GPs and shift close to the redline in each gear, buy the Ninja250. If you are really worried about the yawning gap between the 3rd and 4th gear on the 4S, get yourself revised ratios from the U.K. or the US of A, sometime later. Also, remember, the STD350 and the 4S are the only motorcycles in the world that you can buy brand new with a right gear shifter and a neutral finder. How unique is that? Atleast, if your Bull isn't the fastest, best handling, most fuel efficient, most this and most that, it certainly is the only motorcycle in the world which has a right shifter and the privilege of being the longest continuously produced motorcycle ever. If that isn't cool, what is?


Cheers,

Jay
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Old 2nd November 2009, 09:33   #48
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Well, I started this thread some months back, I eneded up having a Machismo.

Now the Mach is gone, and I waiting for Delivery of my Standard. And I agree with Jay, Bullet is not about the fastest, sleekest or geekest bike. For the price we pay for bulls we can have all that and more.

And the reason I went for Std rather than 4S, because the TCI kit and Disc can be fitted on it, however the raw bull colour, badge, old shockers etc are only in Std. With standard I am buying 50 year old stuff.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 10:42   #49
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... waiting for Delivery of my Standard... the reason I went for Std ...
Good choice You will love it. Just pick up some hands-on bit on CB points adjustment (you may not need TCI kit at all) and get used to the brakes (Bullet is a heavy bike ~250 kgs w/ rider) and run-in the new bike well... a bullet is for lifetime

Cheers,
-BJ
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Old 2nd November 2009, 11:04   #50
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yeah..running-in is the thing. but brakes, and all I am quite used to the bulls. Electra 4S, Thunderbirl AVL, Machismo AVL now Standard.

I am quite keen on the kit offered by vendors other than RE. There are ones which can actually be adjusted for timing.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 12:12   #51
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After Reading the awesome post by Jay & others ! I wanted to share my own experience with my STD 350 ! its been merely 4 months since i bought my std., was my first bull, never knew what it was to drive a legend. The first day , first ride, i was frustrated, not able to beleive what i bought was so hard to everything, nothing like my ZMA or p220, NO . MY First ever ride was 100 kms from the stable to my home. With by-passing two-three days, it got better, i started reading about it, got this forum, understood the value & commitment your BULL wants. This machine got me & i really fell in love with it. Now calling it seems unfair to me.

I did two services & boy that were the most hard-working days for me from a long time , but with that came the charm & satisfaction of getting something like you want it to be.

Now my Bull has done accurately 2222 Kms & i have crusied at 110 kmph on her for 5 seconds. She Runs better than anything. The only thing that matters is, how much you love her, & when you love something you don't ask for anything in return for your love, MY Bull gives me the power, the thump & the royal feel whenever i ask her ! and that is all that matters. Have done long trips on her, have posted pics in the travelouge section.

So All other BULLs are awesome, but my baby is something everyone would love & care about for a long time.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 12:25   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
Guys, please don't jump the gun and start pointing accusatory fingers at RE. We are on team-bhp, a forum which is taken seriously by manufacturers. Such comments without proper proof to substantiate will show us in poor light...
Sorry dude, but pls calm down, understand a post prior pouring out. Differentiate between a query & comment. I believe TBhp is for enthusiasts at first place.

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Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
... Another reason is the lack of standardization at RE. CI machines are handbuilt at Tiruvottiyur, and this along with poor quality control is one reason why there isn't consistency in the performance of CI bulls...
any proof ?

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Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
Such comments without proper proof to substantiate will show us in poor light...
oops

Peace, Just because CI's are older designs it doesn't mean under-performance is justified no queries asked. This Rpm topic was not much discussed anywhere & had some tech views than usual old design comments. Well, now its just another addition to so called Bullet's characteristic.
Back to topic, STD remain all traditional & Electra's lean more practical ie., as daily runner be it city or freeways. I respect the Std but loves Electra.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 12:47   #53
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In another 4 months both are going belly up. So whoever is thinking of buying one, buy an UCE.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 13:25   #54
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Well, to be quite frank, buying UCE is as good as getting a ZMR or R15 or P220 for me. It will just adds a wannabe tag to me, someone who wants to ride a Bull, but is afraid of real thing.

But yes, those who are looking for modern bikes, UCE is the way to go, however those looking for Bull experience then Std or 4S is the real thing.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 14:05   #55
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Originally Posted by Shashank.A View Post
but is afraid of real thing.
Quote:
however those looking for Bull experience then Std or 4S is the real thing.
We dont want to get started on this do we?
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Old 2nd November 2009, 14:27   #56
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
We dont want to get started on this do we?
No we don't. If you will expand your quotes a bit, you will see that I am talking about myself.

The opinion in the comment above in mine, and I do not want to disrespect others opinion or choice. Its just the way I think.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 15:00   #57
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To all the Standard 350 lovers, to each his own. The problem arises when the Standard 350 owner tries to push these thoughts over to others, OR try to degrade or call other Bullets as 'non-Bullets'.

I remember when the first LHS gear shifter was introduced it was flamed. When the AVL was introduced it was flamed. When the electric start was introduced it was flamed. How?! By calling it sissy accessories or options meant for women or for people who love 'plastic' bikes.

There is no real reason to claim that the Standard 350 is the true Bullet since its not (when you consider their own logic of judgement). Originally Bullets were introduced with inclined engines, rigid frames and no neutral finders.

So when they did introduce the vertical engine, that means that they are not true Bullets since true Bullets would have inclined engines.

When they did introduce the rear shocks, what can we conclude?! That it was for women for softer ride for their buttocks?!

When they did introduce the neutral finder, what can we conclude?! That it was for sissy's who found it difficult to find neutral?!

Apart from these there have been many enhancements and changes in the Bullet. Each change brings about progress.

To one it may feel that a Bullet is meant to be ridden at 40 in fourth gear, but to another it may be one being ripped at 120 in top gear. Or to another a well styled and prepped cafe racer screaming at +150kmph in top gear.

They are all Bullets. A Bullet simply is a single cylinder, four stroke engined. The thump is variable, there is no true thump. The thump varies from owners. Some may call the 'toilet flush' type sound the thump, some may call the refined sound of the long bottle silencer the true thump or the short-bottle. A thump is simply the sound produced by any long stroke large single cylinder engine. To call a certain sound the "thump" is stupidity because even Norton's and BSA's are thumpers. To call them non-thumpers is denying the fact and make a fool out of oneself.

So speaking if the Standard 350 is a true Bullet, it strictly isn't. It too has undergone change.

Yes, if you want something that is CLOSEST to what you got fifty years back its the Standard 350. But by no means is it BETTER, or CLASSIC, or EXQUISITE than the newer Bullets. Standard 350 are Bullets, just like the others. They are as original as the Classic 500 you get today. The Classic 500 is the next step for Royal Enfield and I support it because thats what fans ought to do.

But if you want something developed, something modern, something thats more reliable then go in for the newer Bullets. Electra has the electronic CDI, the AVL has the aluminium engine with better oil pump and a much better average and performance. The new UCE is even better than the AVL in terms of quality and reliability. Now they'll soon be launching Fuel Injection. These are all enhancements and not to destroy the image of Enfield. Instead to build a newer and modern Enfield, something that will help it regain its status among the Nortons.

Last edited by Gordon : 2nd November 2009 at 15:03.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 15:16   #58
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As an example, lets put it this way.

Bullet 350 Std VS Electra 5S-2009royalenfieldclubmanefib.jpg

Can any Standard 350 owner look at this and then look at your own Standard 350 and say "My bike is a true Bullet and this Enfield Bullet Clubman is not because it does not have a cast iron engine and it has no carb and it has no neutral finder and it has a sissy electric start." If you can do that, you need an attitude check.

Just for information sake. That tank you see on the above bike itself costs around 35-40k (whereas your whole bike costs just twice of it). Its an exquisitely made Aluminium alloy tank made in England.

Quote:
But if you want something developed, something modern, something thats more reliable then go in for the newer Bullets. Electra has the electronic CDI, the AVL has the aluminium engine with better oil pump and a much better average and performance. The new UCE is even better than the AVL in terms of quality and reliability. Now they'll soon be launching Fuel Injection. These are all enhancements and not to destroy the image of Enfield. Instead to build a newer and modern Enfield, something that will help it regain its status among the Nortons.
Wanted to complete this >

But if you want something developed, something modern, something thats more reliable then go in for the newer Bullets, because at one point in time even the Standard was developed, moderninsed and made reliable compared to the "original" Bullet, which it definitely isn't considering the logic of Standard 350 owners. Electra has the electronic CDI, the AVL has the aluminium engine with better oil pump and a much better average and performance. The new UCE is even better than the AVL in terms of quality and reliability. Now they'll soon be launching Fuel Injection. These are all enhancements and not to destroy the image of Enfield. Instead to build a newer and modern Enfield, something that will help it regain its status among the Nortons.

Last edited by Gordon : 2nd November 2009 at 15:32.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 15:18   #59
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Awesome post Gordon.

To each his own. But the true Bullet thingy has got a bit long in the tooth.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 17:35   #60
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Spitfire, Leave it boss, that argument will always pop up! Peace.

Gordon, good post! Damn that Clubman looks b- eautiful!!!
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