Bullet 350 Std VS Electra 5S

[Ravveendrra]

Great post @ Gordon.

If I were to buy a Bullet today, I would probably buy an UCE or any one with the brake pedal on the right (so I do not forget at a critical moment - my right foot has over the years of driving cars become the 'brake foot'.)

But if someone (like the OP) is looking to buy a Bullet only for the "THUMP" he might be disappointed with the newer aluminium block variants so it would be better he plonked for the CI block.

Cheers,

[Rennjit]

^^ what argument? egg - chicken wala? To me its the Biryani (Ride) which matters.
Any RE, be it CI,AVL,Uce offers an assuring ride makes you feel light for the machine & goes long way.
For a change lets discuss Bullet's Powerband

EDIT:

Originally Posted by EssYouWe

... desire to convince people that our choice is the right choice is just a display of insecurity about our decision...

Ouch !! sad but true

[EssYouWe]

And that is why he is a d-bhpian.

To each his own. Every vehicle has a certain feel to it.

I still love the Maruti 800, because somewhere in my head I associate it with something great.

But do I go around telling people to buy it? No!

Our desire to convince people that our choice is the right choice is just a display of insecurity about our decision.

@CI lovers

Better hurry up with the buying. Time is running out.

@others

How great a resale value do you see the Std 350 (CI) holding in 5 years. Looks like a great bet from that angle.

[Beast_of_Burden]

Getting back on topic. Having owned a 350 CI for a reasonable length of time(this was from 95 to 00), I haven't exactly developed a fetish for it. I wished back then for a bike that could withstand the rigors of hard riding better. Mind you, it never did breakdown entirely under any circumstances, just a severe degradation in performance. Multiple engine rebuilds followed by the hassle of long run-in periods. No, I dont want the trouble, just want to ride - that is just where I am right now with this thing.

I will continue looking for that elusive 500 CI, meanwhile the UCE 500 is something I am definitely looking forward to. I might end up with 2 bikes, a good thing. We have already had an advance preview of sorts of the UCE in the TBTS. Can anyone post their riding impressions at speed, not during run-in?

BTW, the tone of OD magazine's review of the TBTS is rather critical, but then most of them are either patronizing or downright derisive.

[Shashank.A]

well, I just called my dealer, and he said that 80% chances are that I will get the bike tomorrow or on Thursday in any case. Still keeping my fingers crossed, as I do not have much trust in these guys.

So now that there has been an amazing display of knowledge on this thread, I have come up with my own set of questions.

1. Shall run-in the bike same as specified in the manual ? i.e. no hard revving and riding in 45-55kmph band ? Any special care ? additives ?

2. If I go for a conical filter, and upjet the carb (I guess the standard is 85), what impact does it have on the bike ? (better pickup or mileage or top speed)

3. If I change the front sprocket to say 19 tooth one, it is essentially going to increase my top speed, while reducing the pickup or low end torque. But does it have any impact on the engine ?

[desideep]

Just for information sake. That tank you see on the above bike itself costs around 35-40k (whereas your whole bike costs just twice of it). Its an exquisitely made Aluminium alloy tank made in England.

no offence gordon. yes i would go ahead and say that this is not a real bullet because the real bullet came with a CI engine... i may also say this is a improved bullet cause this has a better engine for sure. but yes for sure this is not a real bullet and i dont need any attitude check.

regarding the qoute above. lack of cheap labour makes things this high priced in england. i can get a same tank made in india for a lot less in the prices above that you have qouted from the first one you may like to remove the 5 and from the second the 0 and you have the price for what this would be fabricated in india i am talking aluminnium... for a alloy i am not sure but i am sure it would not be as high as that.

people like KRP get the kits made for very less and sell them for 90K each abroad. but

[Gordon]

Desi, you'd call that clubman "not a real bullet", but you'd call the Standard 350 a real Bullet even though that too is by no means what it was when the Bullet was launched?

The real bullet came with:
- an inclined cast iron engine
- a rigid frame
- a single center shock front suspension
- a gearbox without the neutral finder

By what means does the Standard 350 fit this criteria?! The Standard Bullet 350 for fifty years continued production probably because of these reasons:
- Monopoly.
- There was no/very less competition back then. Enfield were in a class of their own.
- When you don't have competition, you tend to stick to what is selling.
- Poor management probably led to poor quality parts.
- When the company was bought by Eicher, the changes and improvements were made.

[EssYouWe]

A repetition this thread has become.

Lets ride horses 'coz that is how real men traveled 300 years ago.

There is no real Bullet. To each his own. It is just your own personal choice. Why does one have to preach?

Buy whatever you want and enjoy it.

[Shashank.A]

well, for comfort of everyone, lets say this.

Standard 350 offers the best Old World biking experience. If you want to buy a bullet because your dad or uncle had one when you were a kid or because you were in awe of someone who rode it, and you want the same experience, the old world charm, then Standard is the one for you (but with the charm, comes whatever hassles it may have compared to newer generation bikes )

[shan2129]

what is about this real & unreal bullets btw ? I too own that STD 350 ( is a crime to own one ? )

gordon : I respect you, but you make it sound like CI are the worst bullets in town ? why ?

I love the 500LB, dont like TBTS , liked lighting, never liked the mach 350 in older days ( so its my personal opinion , is it a rule for everyone ? no it isnt )

No offense to anyone as i am a peace loving guy, but this thread has lost its course.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by shan2129

but you make it sound like CI are the worst bullets in town ? why ?

Read again. His argument is whether its "real" or not. Nothing to do with worst, best, or whatever you may assume.

[Gordon]

I never said the Standard 350 is a bad bike. I love the Standard 350, but to me its just a name. If you compare the Enfield CI range, all the bikes share the same chassis, same engine, same gearbox, almost 90% of the parts. Newer CIs came with added accessories such as disc brake, electric start, etc.

What I do not like however is the attitude of a Standard 350 owner, and the unnecessary and baseless hype created around it, the association of it being the "true" Bullet and others being "non-Bullets".

I've been riding the Electra 4s RHS cast iron Bullet and I do love it. But I've also been riding the AVL350 LHS cafe and it gives me a great experience too.

[Ravveendrra]

Originally Posted by Gordon

....
What I do not like however is the attitude of a Standard 350 owner, and the unnecessary and baseless hype created around it, the association of it being the "true" Bullet and others being "non-Bullets".

.......

Unfortunate but true, not only in respect of Bullets and their owners but of many other vehicles and their owners, go through the site and you will see several instances of the same .......que sera sera..... that is the way the world is.

Cheers,

[shan2129]

Originally Posted by Gordon

I never said the Standard 350 is a bad bike. I love the Standard 350, but to me its just a name. If you compare the Enfield CI range, all the bikes share the same chassis, same engine, same gearbox, almost 90% of the parts. Newer CIs came with added accessories such as disc brake, electric start, etc.

What I do not like however is the attitude of a Standard 350 owner, and the unnecessary and baseless hype created around it, the association of it being the "true" Bullet and others being "non-Bullets".

I've been riding the Electra 4s RHS cast iron Bullet and I do love it. But I've also been riding the AVL350 LHS cafe and it gives me a great experience too.

The Attitude is nowhere like you think it is ! I never say that i have a true bullet, i bought a standard just to feel what was there in the 40's or 50's !
SO to do that STD 350 is the closest relative.

This is my opinion & i dont think its wrong. Though wheny ou talk about the attitude, Don't you think that you are also taking this too far in terms of STD 350 wala attitude ? In this world everything sould be justified, thats what i beleive. I do agree though that STD 350 is the closest relative to the 1940's or 1950's bike, whatever significant change it might have gone through.
On the other hand i love the power and stability a LB500 gives. So the Tag line should be not real but closest to a vintage.

& I don't have that bad attitude you were talking about, & many of the STD 350 wala guys too. So all five fingers are never the same. No one had the right to take that for granted & accuse The group for anything.

Please take my post & understand what i want to say, Words cannot express the true feelings behind, but i wanted to make it as close as it can get.

[ashokrajagopal]

dont throw stones at me; I am not trying to reignite a fire here.
Also, I am a firm believer of 'To each his own'. Just describing 'my own' and the attitude problem of the 'real bullet' lovers.

@ Gordon, I love your bike. It indeed is a bullet, a Bullet Clubman.
Grew up in India, never seen a thing like that on the roads. It makes me want to own one like that, but not as much as I like to own another std 350.
Reason is simple, std 350 sold for too much time around, so people have got used to that too much.
I am not a bike techie, nor am I super experienced in all the bikes in India. But to everybody in India, who has been on the roads, they identify the bullet with a few things.

1. The trademark tank ( having logo or not doesnt matter).
2. The bulging tool boxes and foot pegs -- just like muscles.
3. The big imposing crank case.
4. The thump.
And the RHS shifting for the riders.
There might be other characters too. ( Oil leak ? I will leave that for critics. I dont care about the oil leak)

Disc brakes make a real big difference to the rider, but do they make an imposing change -- No.

Ignition changed to TCI or EFI -- do they make an imposing change -- No.

Electric start added -- No.

Nor do other things from 90s like Indicators added, wirings changed, battery upgrades etc.
Kick start removed -- This is a big change.

Brakes shifted to Right side -- Big change for the riders. You lose the uniqueness that Bullet had. The only one bike in the world designed that way today, loses it.

UCE -- Yes a big change, you gain power, you gain efficiency, all that. You lose the thump, you lose the structure it had.

So next year, if Std 350 is going off the showrooms and Classic 350 'replaces' it, what does it replace ?

There is no bad attitude coming in here for the so called 'Real Bullet' lovers. RE changed the bike and they are still calling it a Bullet, and that is not the Bullet as we have seen it, heard it, felt it. The common man says, that is not a bullet. Why ? It doesnt sound like one.

New technology comes in everyday. But certain things of the past are real classics and would remain forever. I always fail to understand why Std 350 ever has to be taken off from showroom sales. At least they could have kept it available to order( like Gypsy).
I am not justifying the quality issues from RE on the std 350, or the old niggling issues of std 350. Quality of the parts is not a problem of the bike -- its a problem with the company.
I heard somebody say classic 500 EFI feels like a Jap bike. I dont have anythiing for the countries ( UK vs Jap), but I am sure that is not how the long array of bullet riders in India had felt on std 350s. Good or bad, its different. And it is not the 'real Bullet' to the 'Real desi'.

Read this somewhere -- There are different kinds of cigarette lighters. With liquid fuel, without it, with different kinds of gases, with electric sparks etc etc. You get it with multiple accessories, everyday a new kind comes out.
But people buy and use Zippo lighters every other day. Every smoker out there wants to own one. Those who have it wanna preserve and pass it on to their children. Is it for the technology ? It uses tech from Kerosene lamp era.
Would you call a lighter that looks like Zippo, but uses an electric spark as a Zippo lighter ?

** Cigarette smoking is injurious to health.