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Old 25th June 2005, 15:49   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84
No the 2-strokes are not more powerful than four strokes. In technical terms it is more toruey in nature .And in laymans terms Torque is what we consider as power. And anyways a 1000cc 2-stroke will be too weak at the pistons.

A 12bhp yamaha will be only as powerful as a 12 bhp fiero if their torque figure and cc are same but a two stroke will have a higher low range while a four stroke will have higher high range power.

Hope that helps
Same cc my friend. Same cc. How can you compare a 12bhp Yamaha 2 stroke (135cc) with a 12 bhp Fiero (150cc) ?
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Old 26th June 2005, 12:28   #92
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Though valves and ports are not the same they help in power .

Hence
The yamaha in comparision here is with 7 port torque induction

while fiero is only running on 2 valves.

Plus the torque specs are also high on the Yamaha and yet it gets beaten by the fiero.Overdrive has also covered this fact in one of its issues.

i MYSELF WOULD LOVE to own a 2-stroke and Infact I am a rd350 fan but a fact is a fact.

And getting technical and completing the facts .While the two stroke doesnt have four strokes mechanism it is an inefficient engine and also leaves out residues after not burning the oil properly. Hence both are equally powerful.

The only reason for Honda to discontinue the NSR500 from the moto gp was not the emission norms but the inabilty of 2 strokes against four strokes .The new Honda beat the NSR up and down.

Last edited by devarshi84 : 26th June 2005 at 12:31.
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Old 26th June 2005, 14:54   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84
.....
Plus the torque specs are also high on the Yamaha and yet it gets beaten by the fiero.Overdrive has also covered this fact in one of its issues.
.....
The only reason for Honda to discontinue the NSR500 from the moto gp was not the emission norms but the inabilty of 2 strokes against four strokes .The new Honda beat the NSR up and down.
Regarding the first bit, do you say that a 14bhp Yamaha is going to get beaten by a 12 bhp Fiero? The 135cc 4 speed Yamah developed just 12 bhp. That it got beaten by a Fiero I an digest. But the same motor tuned for 14 bhp on the 5-speed would easily smoke the Fiero. I have done it.

Regarding the second bit, the new Honda RC211V is a near-1000cc beast. Saying that it beats the NSR500 is true, but the comparison is unfair!
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Old 26th June 2005, 22:49   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typeOnegative
Regarding the first bit, do you say that a 14bhp Yamaha is going to get beaten by a 12 bhp Fiero? The 135cc 4 speed Yamah developed just 12 bhp. That it got beaten by a Fiero I an digest. But the same motor tuned for 14 bhp on the 5-speed would easily smoke the Fiero. I have done it.

Regarding the second bit, the new Honda RC211V is a near-1000cc beast. Saying that it beats the NSR500 is true, but the comparison is unfair!

I didnt say two strokes are not powerful.I said both 2strokes and 4 strokes go and in hand. a 14 bhp rx-z should not be compared to a fiero but pulsar 180. but that comparision though closest would not be fair. WHile the fiero 12bhp yamaha is fair.

About the nsr500 case I agree the rc211v is 1000cc but the inefficiency of two strokes is what honda has stated in their press release.
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Old 27th June 2005, 10:03   #95
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Guys don't pull Fiero into this...u r stepping on some thing which I hold dear.
For every ounce of petrol, the performance extracted by 4S is far superior to 2S.
For a given CC, a 2S is far more torque and powerful that 4S, tuned or otherwise.
For a given time span/lifespan, 4S tend to last more than the 2S (maybe i am wrong on this).

Now the perception we have that 2S are more superior to 4S is due to the phenomenon
called "Hero Honda".
Even now we are yet to see a serious 4S m/c.
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Old 27th June 2005, 10:59   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan
Guys don't pull Fiero into this...u r stepping on some thing which I hold dear.
For every ounce of petrol, the performance extracted by 4S is far superior to 2S.
For a given CC, a 2S is far more torque and powerful that 4S, tuned or otherwise.
For a given time span/lifespan, 4S tend to last more than the 2S (maybe i am wrong on this).
Well said. I agree on all points except the last. I am not too sure about that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan
Now the perception we have that 2S are more superior to 4S is due to the phenomenon
called "Hero Honda".
Even now we are yet to see a serious 4S m/c.
This I agree with too. If manufacturers were going full steam ahead on the power front, they might have as well invested in developing a four stroke that is powerful and fuel efficent too. But then we have to look at the 'aam janta' too. Hmmmmm ... I blame the Indian public for the lack of some serious motorcycling fun.
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Old 27th June 2005, 11:30   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typeOnegative
Hmmmmm ... I blame the Indian public for the lack of some serious motorcycling fun.
very true .. but the flip side is that without the 'aam janata' the bike companies would not have even setup shop here ! and we would not have even what little we have now ..

I guess we have no choice but to let evolution take its course ..
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Old 27th June 2005, 12:15   #98
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Well our Aam janta make this market one of the most demanding in the world.
Where else will u find bikes with... fuel efficiency...performance...
ability to run on Indian roads...and cheap to buy/maintain...
Its one tough nut to crack. And to top it all, profit margins are waffer thin.
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Old 27th June 2005, 12:16   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typeOnegative
Hee Hee. If only there was a 180 cc 2st production bike in India. The Pulsar guys would have been crying. And yeah the two stroke guy too. On seeing the fuel bill. Damn!

Then we wouldn't be riding the Pulsars
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Old 27th June 2005, 12:27   #100
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@steer, I didn't mean Silver Plus was first geared moped, I meant it was the first geared moped I have driven. And I completely agree with Hero Puch. It was deceptively quick for its size. I still remember bewildered those look on many faces (including my friends) when it used to just zip past. And if I remember correctly, it developed 4.5 bhp.

@conan, 4S engines last more than 2S because they provide better lubrication to vital engine parts. However, they are difficult to maintain, since they involve more moving parts such as valves, camshafts etc. and the mechanism is more complicated that 2S.
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Old 27th June 2005, 19:47   #101
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Aaah I remember the Puch. A friend of mine had the turbosport. 1st gear launch was explosive.......always first off the lights. But shift to second even after revving hard and it would bog down like crazy.
1st was tooo short and second gear was spaced simply too far away. I used to think a 4 speed Puch with foot shift would be a killer. They did launch the 3G puch later but I never tried it.
There was also a 50 cc puch in TN.

Puch was designed by Porsche Design, an engg & design consultancy like IDEA/IAD and a subsidary of Porsche.
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Old 27th June 2005, 20:52   #102
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off topic, but i've been following this thread to make some decisions too, and congrats to the thread (!!) on 100 posts, and becoming 2nd most replied to thread!

i'm jobless! someone give me an rd!
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Old 27th June 2005, 21:46   #103
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the new pulsar is gonna be 18hp. Even the new tvs coming is having 22hp.

But this is not yet official. lets see what comes.
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Old 27th June 2005, 23:02   #104
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sorey to bring the fiero thing in betwn, but i just had a point to make....
many ppl here disagree that the fiero can beat the rx..but yeah the rx is power when its beyond its stock form and i myself can vouch for it..but lets talk about stock rx and a fiero....try to drag a fiero (preferebly the old one as its more peppy) wid the rx and then lets write our stories..
also pls read this if u have some time, http://overdrive.co.in/Art_dtls.asp?...=Tests&code=86
i dont even remember how many times i have smoked them! but now the story has changed as its no longer a 150cc fiero...
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Old 27th June 2005, 23:12   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
1st gear launch was explosive.......always first off the lights. But shift to second even after revving hard and it would bog down like crazy.
Shift to 2nd after 30kmph. It revvs like crazy but the engine is built for it. However, most of the time the trouble was with keeping the front wheel on the ground and not with wondering when to shift.

Somebody build a go kart with that engine........please!
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