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Old 27th June 2005, 23:25   #106
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Originally Posted by fieroid
sorey to bring the fiero thing in betwn, but i just had a point to make....
many ppl here disagree that the fiero can beat the rx..but yeah the rx is power when its beyond its stock form and i myself can vouch for it..but lets talk about stock rx and a fiero....try to drag a fiero (preferebly the old one as its more peppy) wid the rx and then lets write our stories..
also pls read this if u have some time, http://overdrive.co.in/Art_dtls.asp?...=Tests&code=86
i dont even remember how many times i have smoked them! but now the story has changed as its no longer a 150cc fiero...
Dude if you want to prove the point that 4 strokes produce more power than 2 strokes (not talking about efficiency here), then lets not talk just about Fieros and RX 100s because they are not the best representatives of each class.

Check out the best 125cc 4 strokes against the likes of the Aprilia 125 which produced 28bhp in stock form more than 10 years back. There are even better two stroke examples out there - as for the Fiero, the 1980s RD80LC in my mechanics garage produces more power than it and thats just about 80cc.

Nobody argues that 4 strokes produce more power per cc of fuel consumed, but when you talk about output per cc of engine capacity two strokes were way ahead and would've been even further ahead had research into two strokes continued till today. The reason you see 4 strokes that are beginning to produce the kind out output that two strokes of the same capacity did 2 decades back is that research on these engines have continued to this day.
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Old 28th June 2005, 00:41   #107
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Puch was designed by Porsche Design, an engg & design consultancy like IDEA/IAD and a subsidary of Porsche
what is the Puch? are you guys reffering to the Hero Puch?
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Old 28th June 2005, 03:30   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Dude if you want to prove the point that 4 strokes produce more power than 2 strokes (not talking about efficiency here), then lets not talk just about Fieros and RX 100s because they are not the best representatives of each class.

Check out the best 125cc 4 strokes against the likes of the Aprilia 125 which produced 28bhp in stock form more than 10 years back. There are even better two stroke examples out there - as for the Fiero, the 1980s RD80LC in my mechanics garage produces more power than it and thats just about 80cc.

Nobody argues that 4 strokes produce more power per cc of fuel consumed, but when you talk about output per cc of engine capacity two strokes were way ahead and would've been even further ahead had research into two strokes continued till today. The reason you see 4 strokes that are beginning to produce the kind out output that two strokes of the same capacity did 2 decades back is that research on these engines have continued to this day.

ok, there is no way that u can compare even a junk RD wid a fiero...ok in that case i will start comparing my fiero f200 wid a rx135 then!...
dude compare bikes wid similar capacity and both the rx and the fiero fall in the same premium bike segment....dude i point here is that a 4-stroke makes similar power but yes wid more cc but wid more efficency...can you disagree on that?
i myself have used 2-strokes in the past and I know better what they are.....shaolin, shogun, rx have all seen my hands on them.....but i really liked the fiero for the kinda power and sprint that it offered....initially when i rode the fiero 4yrs ago and till date, it feels like an imported 150cc suzuki as the bike feels really nice to ride and the acceleration is super crisp and trust me I have no partiality towards the fiero, but i never have found any other bike that is just the way a fiero is....i used to love the shaolin tho a lot in the past, for a matter even now!
so what i'm trying to build is not a war, but to quote that a 4-stroke can make sililar figures like a 2-stroke and trust me they can burn more efficiently any day!
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Old 28th June 2005, 08:41   #109
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not 2 strokes nor the 4 strokes are powerful.Both stand at the same place in power or efficiency.
kawasaki introduced new 2-stroke tech with good emissions. Bimota did the same (remember the v500 due?)
but 2 strokes was not the intrest of the manufacturers are 4 strokes are going fine. Lets end the topic with a simple statement that both 2 strokes and 4 strokes produce the same amount of power.

2 strokes always have a better low range to mid range pickup
4 strokes always have a better mid range to high range pickup
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Old 28th June 2005, 13:03   #110
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Originally Posted by fieroid
ok, there is no way that u can compare even a junk RD wid a fiero...ok in that case i will start comparing my fiero f200 wid a rx135 then!...
dude compare bikes wid similar capacity and both the rx and the fiero fall in the same premium bike segment....dude i point here is that a 4-stroke makes similar power but yes wid more cc but wid more efficency...
Alright fieroid, let me take another unequal example. Let's take 110cc 2stroke Shogun and 150cc 4stroke Fiero. That is unequal comparison and heavily biased towards Fiero. You think, your dear 4 stroke will win again punny little 2stroke?

p.s.:
1. You can also compare 14 bhp RX135 vs. 12 bhp Fiero, which is having 15 cc extra. If you still believe, your 4 Stroke Fiero rules the roost, I have nothing more to say.
2. I didn't get what you mean by similar power but with more cc. Oxymoron here?

Last edited by RX135 : 28th June 2005 at 13:04.
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Old 28th June 2005, 14:09   #111
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Originally Posted by RX135
p.s.:
1. You can also compare 14 bhp RX135 vs. 12 bhp Fiero, which is having 15 cc extra. If you still believe, your 4 Stroke Fiero rules the roost, I have nothing more to say.
Right on. Everyone assumes that a stock RX135 produces just 12bhp of power.
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Old 28th June 2005, 22:11   #112
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The suzuki shogun you are talkin about was meant for performance.Only cc's dont count when considering power.

shogun had 14bhp/lighter weight/more torque/proper gearing/special sports exhaust and multi ported chamber.

Fiero only has a 12cc advantage over this racing beast.

Compare this with the the pulsar 180

more cc , more torque, no extra valves, more weight,no special free flow exhaust(2 stroked benefit more from free flows) and it beats shogun.

No grudges towards the shogun(it is one of my favouraites) the only thing to be understood here is that two strokes and four stroked are just different engines with different characteristics.

A 110 cc 8 valve 14 bhp fourstroker was never produced or it would have had the same impact as a suzuki shogun
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Old 29th June 2005, 00:45   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135
Alright fieroid, let me take another unequal example. Let's take 110cc 2stroke Shogun and 150cc 4stroke Fiero. That is unequal comparison and heavily biased towards Fiero. You think, your dear 4 stroke will win again punny little 2stroke?

p.s.:
1. You can also compare 14 bhp RX135 vs. 12 bhp Fiero, which is having 15 cc extra. If you still believe, your 4 Stroke Fiero rules the roost, I have nothing more to say.
2. I didn't get what you mean by similar power but with more cc. Oxymoron here?
dude, dont compare bikes like a kid wid just the cc(cubic capacity) thats got nothing to do wid the power of the bike....
the shogun makes 14hp id 110cc as the cylinder is already ported and hence you can leave the cc untouched...but in case of the fiero, its a 4-stroke that has more running parts and banks more on the cams than the ports like the ports on the 2-strokes...
i have worked on both the 2-strokes and right now we re completing my fiero f200....
so its not the cc that can make a bike powerful or win....we have a shaolin thats 148cc and can make 23hp.....what will u say?
oxymoron, who? u?
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Old 29th June 2005, 12:12   #114
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dude, dont compare bikes like a kid wid just the cc(cubic capacity) thats got nothing to do wid the power of the bike....
What are you trying to say? You say compare similar bikes, but then similar bikes means similar cc. Bike (or for that matter, car) segments are based on cc. 100cc, 125cc, 150cc and 180cc. That whole argument was about what produces more power for given cc, 2S or 4S? It is no brainer that 2S produces more power per cc. You say, power has nothing to do with cc. Mind explaining more?

Quote:
the shogun makes 14hp id 110cc as the cylinder is already ported and hence you can leave the cc untouched...but in case of the fiero, its a 4-stroke that has more running parts and banks more on the cams than the ports like the ports on the 2-strokes...
So? How does it matter? It is well known fact that 2S work with ports and 4S works with valves.

Quote:
oxymoron, who? u?
You seem to be rather pissed off First cool down, dear friend! I am not doubting your ability to modify bikes to extract more power, but that doesn't alter fact that 2 strokes inherently produce more power per cc. In future, 4strokes will evolve so much that they would burn fuel so efficiently that it would compensate for extra power stroke in 2stroke. (provided that, 2stroke technology remains the same and does not evolve like 4stroke).
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Old 29th June 2005, 16:07   #115
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Note from Moderator: This thread is going way off-topic. Technical advantages of 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines should be discussed in a separate thread.
Thread closed.
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