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Old 22nd July 2009, 14:27   #16
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Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
I know what you have posted above.

I am confused by this statement of yours



If one is engine braking why would there be no drive to rear wheels?
I think it as matter of semantics. By drive I meant where the engine is trying to make the rear wheel turn, as opposed to acting as a drag on it, as it does when the fuel supply is denied to it. Drive as I have used does not just mean connection.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 14:36   #17
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hmm this is interesting, when am I entering a turn I am not revving but that doesnt mean that engine is not trying to move the wheel.

Also even if we say that its not, one would have to stop revving while entering a turn & then accelerate i.e. engage the wheel, while exiting

What you have mentioned is possible only for a long sweeping turn where in you can accelerate even while entering the turn.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 14:37   #18
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Experience is a great teacher if you live long enough! The thing about turns is that you should have finished with your braking before you lean over, and then accelerate through and out of the turn. The bike is stable in a turn only when the rear wheel has drive.
Exactly! The fastest way around a corner is to enter it slower and feed the throttle as you go along. As long as there is drive to the rear wheels and some tread left of your rear tyre, you will stay on two wheels. On top of it, its lotta fun!

Entering a corner quick and braking at the middle of the turn is riskier. And slower.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 14:39   #19
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What you see, is what you ride on.

The bike follows your vision, always use it.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 14:45   #20
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hmm this is interesting, when am I entering a turn I am not revving but that doesnt mean that engine is not trying to move the wheel.
Sorry, you are wrong there. If in not revving the throttle is shut, the engine is not trying to move the wheel, the wheel is moving the engine. The engine cannot do any work when there is no fuel air mix getting into the combustion chamber, and is only a drag on the connected moving wheel. That is how it brakes the bike.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 14:48   #21
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Oh ok I get what you are trying to say & yes what you say is right. I was still thinking that you are equating Clutch pressed to Not revving which is not the case & hence teh statement

Btw just for the sake of argument If I am not revving, the engine is still getting air & fuel for combustion

Last edited by Technocrat : 22nd July 2009 at 14:50.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 14:53   #22
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Exactly! The fastest way around a corner is to enter it slower and feed the throttle as you go along. On top of it, its lotta fun!
Well said, and doing this well is what gives bikers the greatest of kicks! No pleasure like a well executed turn - no matter where or how brief. And a lot safer than the top speed pursuits. That is why the twisties are such a high!
PS: reread my post, Techno - I said "if in not revving the throttle is shut" - where is your cylinder getting the mix from in that situation????!!!

Last edited by Sawyer : 22nd July 2009 at 14:56. Reason: PS
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Old 22nd July 2009, 15:00   #23
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PS: reread my post, Techno - I said "if in not revving the throttle is shut" - where is your cylinder getting the mix from in that situation????!!!
Unless the revs drop to zero the carb would still feed fuel to the engine right

e.g when you start the bike & not rev, the engine is still is on. Anyways that was just to give another perspective.

I totally agree with what you said

Last edited by Technocrat : 22nd July 2009 at 15:12.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 15:06   #24
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Ok, you got me on this one in an academic sense, and a fair point made! I had left out the idle circuit from the thinking. That was fun.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 15:16   #25
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Hehe Gotcha

Btw I love riding on twisties, you may like This from my trip to Lavasa
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Old 22nd July 2009, 15:32   #26
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Nice...btw, I found myself running out of road on the twisties from Temghar up to Lavasa. The road cambers are all wrong and gave me a hell of a fright on my first ride up. I think the tarmac has been laid without profiling the surfaces first.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 15:56   #27
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Yes the camber is wrong at many places. One of the reason why my body posture is slightly wrong in pic 2
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Old 22nd July 2009, 16:17   #28
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I tend to ride mostly by instinct and don't think of too many technicalities before negotiating a corner- but one practice has never let me down even in the most challenging situations.

Try using the lowest possible cog in your gearbox possible before putting the bike down in a corner. This ensures that the drive to the wheels is at its maximum at any given time for a given amount of throttle input. Smacking the throttle shut at any point of time can be hazardous.

When the upper ranges of the powerband are in use, there is much more throttle control as opposed to lower down in the rev range and mid-corner adjustments (weight transfer) can be made far easily just by the throttle w/o the need of touching the brakes (which is a last resort when you have really overcooked it)

An example- If I'm doing 80kmph in 4th gear on my Zma @6000rpm approaching a corner which can be cleared at the same speed, I would rev-match and shift to third, doing the same speed in 3rd gear at around 7000rpm, continue accelerating and then tip the bike over.

The throttle response would be much better, and I would have more roadholding (as a result of the increased drive to the wheels as the throttle is whacked open) in the upper reaches of the rev-band as opposed to coasting lazily into the corner at 5800-6000rpm (with slower progress out of the corner to boot) warranting a mid-corner downshift and possibly making things unstable.

This system is now hardwired into my brain so I don't even have to think to execute it, happens automatically when I see a corner. So far it has never led to a moment mid-way into a corner.

The same works on cars but is much less critical in day to day situation as they have better traction levels to work with in the first place.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 16:32   #29
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Quote:
Try using the lowest possible cog in your gearbox possible before putting the bike down in a corner. This ensures that the drive to the wheels is at its maximum at any given time for a given amount of throttle input. Smacking the throttle shut at any point of time can be hazardous.
Quote:
An example- If I'm doing 80kmph in 4th gear on my Zma @6000rpm approaching a corner which can be cleared at the same speed, I would rev-match and shift to third, doing the same speed in 3rd gear at around 7000rpm, continue accelerating and then tip the bike over.
Hmm the text in bold is contradicting, as per first quote you should always go down to first gear?

Besides how you enter a turn depends a lot on how the turn is you cant use same technique for all turns/ curves.

Last edited by Technocrat : 22nd July 2009 at 16:48.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 16:36   #30
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and one thing we forget is, what if there a many many turns.

If the road is very twisty and the roads are good with a good view all around, I simply ride in the middle and don't bother too much about the gears and braking and all that.
simply choose an avg speed that matches the short straight distance and the turns.

OK maybe I am a little slower than otherwise, but I don't tire myself out.
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