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Old 22nd April 2010, 18:36   #46
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No I understand your feelings, I just wanted to tell that this is not a revolutionary technology & has been intriduced in India before. Yes the Street wasnt a looker & for that matter the step thrus didnt work in India accept for the M80.

I still have doubts on Auto Clutch bikes in India irrespective of who offers it. For one we dont know how the target audience reacts to it after the intial euphoria, also we need to see the possible technical issues that owners might face.

Some people are comparing it with Automatics well there is big difference, this one has all the gears it just the clutch which is missing.

Last edited by Technocrat : 22nd April 2010 at 18:37.
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Old 22nd April 2010, 22:14   #47
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No doubt its a very convenient bike for city use. But the maintenance of the bike and technical issues if any will only be revealed after people own it for quite a while. Who would take the risk of being the first few is quite another question altogether

The main suspect here seems to be the move in any gear concept. If its using a centrifugal clutch, have TVS really made it robust enough to handle the abuse the rider would throw at it knowingly or unknowingly? if yes, then they might have a winner in their hands!!
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Old 23rd April 2010, 00:50   #48
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I did not find the torque anything impressive. It was okay at best. Is it possible that your pillion's weight might be causing the phenomenon?

I don't know how great the clutch will deal with obvious clutch riding in Indian conditions.

Lets hope not too many people end up with fried plates.

I don't quite understand its USP. Do we not already have the gearless scooters for this convenience?
The Jive is not even remotely macho that someone goes in for it purely due to the looks.

Is it confirmed as having a 15 ltr tank?
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Old 23rd April 2010, 00:52   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nairrk View Post
@Motokris
Thanks yours with valid information.
I referred the websites becoz have seen others claiming that she do not have such fuel tank capacity. Anyway this is not a big issue as even 10litre tank would be sufficient (atleast 600kms before next fill!).

btw, have you seen the underseat storage area - is it really useful (company claim that one bottle and a small umbrella can be kept in this space?)
Fiero F2/FX has 13 Ltr tank capacity.. With Star city TVS introduced 16 Ltr big tank in bikes. Now Star City and Apache 150/RTR 160/RTR 160Fi/RTR 180 has got 16 ltr capacity. But flame has got only 8ltr tank capcity due to storage space inside tank. Now with Jive they have reduced the tank capcity to 15 ltr from 16 ltr of starcity/Apache. I used to ride starcity and apache. I used to fill 16lts for long rides. Which is very useful in long rides.
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Old 23rd April 2010, 01:04   #50
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@John

Thanks a lot for that info. I really did not know about these bikes coming with such high capacity tanks.

Though not a potential tourers, if it delivers even 50 kms to a liter, one can fill it and forget it for a month!
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Old 23rd April 2010, 10:10   #51
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Now what we need is a report from some one who bought a JIVE and such report will give more authentic information about the bike.
Looks like none of our members bought one yet?

Infact I wanted go for it (in exchange of Kinetic 4 Stroke gearless scooter), but prefer to wait till get more details or atleast some ownership review from our members!
Or am I going to buy it first and give the ownership report? (I prefer to wait !)
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Old 23rd April 2010, 10:18   #52
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Guys, why blame HH. All of us appreciate Honda for their products - quality & reliability. In a JV (Read Hero + Honda), one supplied technology (Honda) and the other supplies service (Hero) to make a business run successfully. HH has delivered by far the most reliable sets of two wheels in the country. How does a lack of R&D with Hero group specifically for HH JV hinder that fact?

BTW, there are bad experiences everywhere. We just have to see how much by percentage they are and how that percentage compares with other manufacturers'. HH is still the best and the most trusted in this business.

About the Jive, the under seat storage is a good fit for a medium sized umbrella and a 1 litre pet bottle + some free space for some small oddities. Useful I must say but not great.

Coming to the reason for failure of the HH Street, the most important reason is that it is a step thru - in the days of cheap Bajaj M80 where the StepThru is considered a glorified luggage carrier and just a notch above the scooters - in fact many preferred the scooter over this hybrid. And then, it was priced above the Splendor - with a huge gap between the M80, the scooters and the Street.

At least, with the Jive, both those confusions don't exist. Jive is a proper motorcycle and is priced well - Rs 40.5K OTR Hyderabad - on par with other 100cc offerings. This one pulls well, is practical and offers good mileage. If I have to buy a 100/110 cc bike today I would no doubt buy the Jive. I wish this sells well - just as an encouragement for TVS guys for their innovative effort.


For other specifications and how the technology in this bike works, please refer to the website - TVS Jive - The No Tension Bike.

TVS Jive - The No Tension Bike

For specifications - including fuel tank capacity - TVS Jive - The No Tension Bike

See the under-seat storage & gear indicator thing here - TVS Jive - The No Tension Bike

Last edited by MotoKris : 23rd April 2010 at 10:29.
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Old 23rd April 2010, 11:14   #53
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How does the OTR price of the Jive compare to its sibling, the Star City ?
If its slightly cheaper than the Jive, wont it make sense to go for that instead, if the advantages include (possible) higher reliability due to the traditional setup, a higher FE because chances of people lugging the engine in the Jive and a lower entry cost.

I know its a good effort by TVS, but I am just trying to understand the target market. One advantage of the earlier Street was that it was a stepthrough, and which meant it had a wider audience including a goodish amount of female users.

Me thinks they should have launched the step through (Neo) here too. And at the same price point.
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Old 23rd April 2010, 11:34   #54
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StepThru's don't have enough market in India to satisfy the effort involved in launching them by the manufacturers.

The OTR of Star City 110 and Jive (110) is almost the same. Rs 500 difference. Don't remember which one was higher. This is in the same range as Yamaha's 100/110 cc bikes. Lower than even the Splendor and there-by all other HH's and even the Discover 100. The 100cc TVS Sport is about 5K cheaper (competes with Platina, CD100, Crux, etc)

Now, mileage is not the only point here. Though that is the biggest point, if it were the only point that interests a sale then nothing other than Bajaj Discover 100 should sell as they claim the highest mileage (but practically, the star city 110 fares better than the Disco in comfort, pickup and smoothness with same mileage, with one gear less). As such, the mileage the Jive would give is not very low. It is very acceptable. Just that the modern bikes of similar capacity give 70-75 KMPL easily and this one is stuck at 60-65 KMPL. For the convenience it offers, it is worth it. If TVS markets it well and manages to penetrate in to the market (added with their forth coming Max 4R with same Jive's engine for rural market), they have a huge niche to carve out for them - part from convenient bike market and part from the scooter market.
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Old 23rd April 2010, 12:20   #55
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I all I want to emphasise is that a company despite offering the advanced technology & scoring high on reliability & so called quality, cannot survive in competitive environment, till the time it has its own R&D setup. Let it will need to rush to a foreign manufacturer for new technology or product paying exorbitant royalty/license fee for every unit it produces. This will only increase the cost of the product. To put it more clearly, HH bikes are priced at a premium over the competitors which outclass in every department except the people's perception due to which they still have the majority share in Indian market.

Their own internal forecasts indicate that they will loose more than 5% market share in near future. They need to have internal R&D to fight back Bajaj & TVS rather than just Honda technology to remain on top of the world.

Sorry that was all OFF TOPIC discussion.

Coming back to the Jive, I believe that it can do good in Indian market, because it looks like a proper bike (unlike step-thrus earlier launched) & is reasonably powered as other 100-125 cc bikes & hopefully the reliability will also be good as in case of other TVS bikes.
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Old 23rd April 2010, 12:30   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP
To put it more clearly, HH bikes are priced at a premium over the competitors which outclass in every department except the people's perception due to which they still have the majority share in Indian market.
You would be surprised to notice that most(not all) of HH bikes are actually priced lower than competition. Look at the 150cc segment bikes, The Hunk is the cheapest, the RTR is more expensive than the CBZ Xtreme. I know they lack the bells & whistles of competition but what they offer is reliable & competitive engines.
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Old 23rd April 2010, 18:21   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoKris View Post
Jive is a proper motorcycle and is priced well - Rs 40.5K OTR Hyderabad - on par with other 100cc offerings.
I assume that is a typo. The Jive is 49.5 on-road, (about 42K ex-showroom). I was looking for a good city bike for our office use and had almost decided on the Suzuki Zeus, but the sales-guy started playing tricks at the last minute saying that the version I wanted (XU) is suddenly out of stock and was pushing me towards the fully-loaded version (XED) that was 8K more.

Anyway I walked out of there and went to the TVS showroom near my office. Tested both Star City & Jive. I am not very familiar with modern bikes (I have only owned a Jawa and a Yezdi before I graduated to 4-wheelers, still have the Yezdi for pleasure rides) but this is what I observed:

- The auto-clutch on the Jive is not as smooth as one would expect. You notice a jerk when you change the gear. This jerk is very pronounced when shifting from neutral to first. The sales guy said it can be adjusted, but then why was it set like that on their test-drive bike?

- The rotary gearing (go directly from 4th to neutral without the need for down-shifting) should be a blessing at traffic stops, but again didn't work as well as I'd like. Had to try a couple of times to coax the gear to go from the 4th to neutral.

Other than that, the fit, build-quality etc are all same as Star City. I expect the fuel efficiency would be a little less because of the auto-clutch, but not by much. Basically, the only difference between the Star and Jive is the gearbox, rest of the bike is almost identical.

I ended up buying the Star City (48K on-road - and this is with 14% life tax as it is bought on my company's name). Two main reasons for deciding against the Jive:

1. Not sure about Jive's gearbox. Didn't want to experiment with new technology. I needed a reliable work horse that would be used by different people at the office.

2. The main driver (my assistant) for the bike was not at all comfortable with the Jive's auto-clutch. Despite several reminders, his left hand fingers kept grasping at the empty air for the clutch-lever every time he changed the gear..... an accident waiting to happen.

Had the Star City for a week now and all concerned are happy with it (except for one guy who feels that the Bajaj Discover would have been a better buy.... ah well, you can't satisfy everyone).

Cheers.
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Old 23rd April 2010, 18:32   #58
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As some one already suggested that JIVE will be ideal for those who have used
(or using) gearless scooters, as their left hand finger will never search for a clutch?!
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Old 23rd April 2010, 21:38   #59
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Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
I all I want to emphasise is that a company despite offering the advanced technology & scoring high on reliability & so called quality, cannot survive in competitive environment, till the time it has its own R&D setup.
Right. But for Hero Honda JV, Honda is the R&D. It would be ugly on our part to say Honda doesn't have R&D.

Next, for local R&D, Hero Motors does have it. Hero Honda cannot do anything without Honda's part in it. Also, unlike the popular perception, HH does have an R&D apart from the graphics department But, they seem to do only the testing part of it. Fair deal - considering Honda develops stuff and HH tests them for our conditions. I hope you get the point about the JV's. I really don't want to elaborate it much further here.

Add to this, Honda generally doesn't advertise changes to the engine and stuff like Bajaj. How many of you know the number of changes the Splendour's engine has gone through since its inception in 1994 (am I right here?)? And how many know the difference between the then CD 100 and Splendour engines? Well, how many know that the Unicorn has had a silent engine change (whole bore kit and a few more parts) in between?

Want a confirmation? Please get hold of an informed spare parts guy and he'll tell you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
You would be surprised to notice that most(not all) of HH bikes are actually priced lower than competition. Look at the 150cc segment bikes, The Hunk is the cheapest, the RTR is more expensive than the CBZ Xtreme. I know they lack the bells & whistles of competition but what they offer is reliable & competitive engines.
You are right about the higher end models.

Let us see the 100cc segment. Splendors (+, NXG) and Passions (+, Pro) of the world are the most expensive in their segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H3LIOS View Post
I assume that is a typo. The Jive is 49.5 on-road, (about 42K ex-showroom).
Thanks for the correction mate... It was indeed a typo. Shall correct it now.

Somehow I feel that you made a correct choice. If it would be ridden by many people, a regular bike is better.

The "trying to grab clutch lever" action goes away pretty soon with the Jive. We'll just be horrified at eh first instant. It is like writing the previous year number in the date for the first few days in January every year

Quote:
Originally Posted by nairrk View Post
As some one already suggested that JIVE will be ideal for those who have used
(or using) gearless scooters, as their left hand finger will never search for a clutch?!
It can be a problem if their leg too doesn't search for the gear! (sorry, smiley quote over)
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Old 29th April 2010, 14:07   #60
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I just visited the TVS showroom here and seen the Jive.

The on road price is Rs.48000/-
Waiting period 15 days from booking date (booking amount Rs.2000/)

The bike looks very nice. It is identical to Star.

Only thing is that the clutch hand lever is missing and you feel a gap there i.e
one hand you have a lever but on the left side, only the handle!

They didt have a test vehicle hence unable do TD.

Now, I am trying to sell off the 2.5 year old Kinetic -4S scooter (seems less takers as the model is stopped by kinetic/mahindra) and then book the JIVE!
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