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Old 9th November 2009, 09:51   #16
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Hmmmm As another "To be a Bike Hunter Soon", I would say that the following can be distilled from all replies.

1. R15 only if you want a "weekend fun on the track" bike. Does not seem suitable to daily traffic in most Indian cities and roads.

2. Choice boils down to P220 or ZMR. P220 certainly seems to be well endorsed by enough experienced riders. As for ZMR, I personally am not fond of the overdecorated fairings. Bound to rattle sooner than later.

3. Apache 180 is to be considered only if sub 200 cc bikes are a consideration.

The overall result of all discussions till now seems to be tilting heavily to P220!!
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Old 9th November 2009, 10:41   #17
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@Ashpillai
Do Agree 180 RTR is less cc than Karizma and Pulser but it has best in gear accelaration and best 0 to 100 Figures,only thing is top speed is not as good as 220 Pulser but 125km/hr is good speed for our conditions.
And the best part of this bike breaking.Just test ride it to belive it.
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Old 9th November 2009, 13:54   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parimal_g View Post
Do Agree 180 RTR is less cc than Karizma and Pulser but it has best in gear accelaration and best 0 to 100 Figures,only thing is top speed is not as good as 220 Pulser but 125km/hr is good speed for our conditions.
And the best part of this bike breaking.Just test ride it to belive it.
Parimal, you seem pretty impressed by RTR. That is why I have in my summary of our dicussions stated that it "can" be considered, if bikes less than 200cc are "being" considered. If 180 cc is also a part of the consideration set, you definitely should look at the RTR.

As for the top whack of a P220 or RTR, I honestly have never thought of that number as very useful. As adventurous as you might be, you have to be either incredibly brave or extremely foolhardy to do a 125 on an Indian road.

I am not saying, it is not doable. I have had regular "almost spiritual" experience on an RD350 and have myself pushed the envelope on one of those old time P180s that I used to ride. Yes it can be done, but if you are above 100 on an Indian road, you are pushing it my friend.

Most of the odos are not reliable anyhow!! I used to get great ego boosts seeing the needle cross 120, even though never could have ridden beyond 105 or so...

As for buying a bike, I guess you just pick the one "you" love. All else will feel ok then. The niggles, the backaches, fairings coming loose etc..... Just look at the cult following Bullet has and refer to any thread to feel that near manic obsession it tends to become despite having so many issues. (I know I am committing sacrilege!!)
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Old 9th November 2009, 15:52   #19
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I am personally not a fan of HH Bikes, although they make good driveable bikes. Since you gotta do a lot of driving, ZMR would be a good choice as far as ride comfort(ride position is better suited for long drives)

I personally rode 180RTR and did not find it that exciting. i have never been impressed by the quality of work in apaches(all models), once you revv the engine, the whole front of the bike starts vibrating and makes a lot of noise(tried that on a test drive bike and also on my friend's). also it might be a little uncomfortable for taller guys.

Have never ridden an R15 so will choose not to comment on it

P220 has come a long way since the circular headlight model of 150 and 180. although these bikes were much more fun, they lacked good ride quality. However, over the years Pulsars have become much more driveable and sadly less fun(although not that much)

My final suggestion, test drive all the machines, and then decide!!!!!!!!
and do post pics.
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Old 9th November 2009, 16:11   #20
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I had the same question 1.5 months back and I decided on the P220. The following are purely my views (after TD'ing the R15, P220 and the old KariZMa) and not intended to offend anyone.

1. R15 was too expensive for a 150 cc bike and the position makes it a not so comfortable ride in the city. And the looks don't seem to appeal much to me.

2. Karizma ZMR wasn't launched at that time but the initial pictures made me decide against it for the good

3. Not a fan of TVS bikes, so no Apache for me... don't like the looks of the Apache.

I have been riding the P220 for almost 45 days now at very low speeds (due to running in) and am really happy with the bike. The only concern is the front fairing vibrates a bit in lower gears. I thinks that the same with KZM too. Rest, I love the headlamps on this bike. Its the most powerful on any Indian bike, I believe.

Rather than asking this question on the forum and getting even more confused, do a TD of all the bikes you shortlisted and maybe add more bikes to that list (a TD never hurts right) and then decide on the bike your heart goes out for.

Hope it helps.

Last edited by MurtazaGhiya : 9th November 2009 at 16:13.
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Old 9th November 2009, 20:30   #21
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TD is not everything guys. Just doing a TD can anyone guess how long the engine will stand good?

Engine Reliability -> ZMR
JUST SHOW OFF, no VFM -> R15
Initial Pickup + hell lottsa vibrations -> RTR 180
VFM, Top Speed, Sheer power -> P220
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Old 9th November 2009, 21:36   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
JUST SHOW OFF, no VFM -> R15
I would NOT agree to the above statement!!

Before you start throwing brickbats at me, let me clear the air, i am a P220 DTSi owner myself and have owned it for the last 2 months.

R15 has had a lot of race technology put it into the bike. Its a different thing that they chose to do it on a 150 cc 17PS mill. But still the sheer technology and engineering that has gone into the bike deserves the brownie points. And its not just show off either. For a single rider, on a straight it can hold its own against a P220 for sometime atleast!! That is an achievement in itself from a 150 cc mill.

Its a draw back that the motor needs to be kept in high revs to develop the power which is not always possible in the city limits. But to write off a bike as just a show off is not right IMHO.
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Old 9th November 2009, 21:53   #23
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The bikes are good in their own respect. Test drive and pick the one that suits you the most.

ZMA R - Reliable, comfortable and refined tourer. Parts are of good quality but expensive.
P220 - Performance, great value for money, but bajaj bikes are not very long lasting and reliable.
RTR - Rev friendly, performance is good but vibration at high speeds is an issue, good handling and nimble for city use, not comfortable for a tall guy.
R15 - Rev friendly, performance is good at higher rpm, great handling, technologically advanced bike, sports oriented riding position and poor low end torque make it not very comfortable for city use.
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Old 9th November 2009, 22:55   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
TD is not everything guys. Just doing a TD can anyone guess how long the engine will stand good?

Engine Reliability -> ZMR
JUST SHOW OFF, no VFM -> R15
Dude, you are entitled to your opinion but that's going overboard! If you see my posts earlier, I have been quite candid about the +ves and -ves of all the bikes, and I have recommended P220.

That's doesn't mean R15 is no VFM - It depends on what you feel is VFM.

To tell the -ves of the Pulsar,
1. It is DAMN Ubiquitous - No body will even give a second look at the bike - I feel that's not good for a bike that used to sell almost 95K in Bangy
2. Many of the people who bought Pulsars earlier SWEAR that they'll never buy a Pulsar again

There are more, but I don't want to get into a cat fight

There is more to bike than just the engine! R15's chassis is superbly balanced, and the cornering abilities are awesome.

Please think twice before you call any bike as just show off!
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Old 10th November 2009, 00:00   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashpillai View Post
Parimal, you seem pretty impressed by RTR.
Yes very much impressed with the RTR 180.Its totally up to us what we want from a bike.The reason i like Apache is.
1> Its designed by TVS Racing team so am sure it has ingredients of a racer bike as this team has a racing experience of more than 15 years in Indian conditions.Which helps in bringing a tougher bike like

a> Good breaking performance and optimization.
b> Handling and high speed stability.Most important is not to loose composure under hard breaking.
c> quality clutch plates as those are designed to perform in such tough racing environment.

2>The throttle response is just amazing bike is just ready to go.
3> Quality of rubbers used right from foot peg to handle bar.
4> Also small touches like spring action for your front foot pegs,easy to put on stand.Even the presence of kick lever
5> Better head light for night driving.Even in other lighting department its very good.
6>Vibrations are there but no worrying as its a nature of over square engine.
7> the wielding quality of chassis,how the silence is attached to body frame.
8>And the last thing am from dombivli where roads are pathetic and am using my Victor GLX since more than 4 years and done close to 50,000km and not a single rattle,and i know know what has happened to my friends 1 year old Unicorn ,4 your old karizma and pulsers.

And the problem with TVS is one even considers TVS as a good brand when it comes buying a bike and i will tell you the TVS bikes are one of the best bikes made in India.

Last edited by parimal_g : 10th November 2009 at 00:03.
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Old 10th November 2009, 10:27   #26
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Default R15 Dismissed?

Guys, come one! Dont dismiss the R15 so soon. Its a niche bike, and for what its made for, it rocks! Ppl might call it a non-VFM, but fail to see the quality of parts, suspension bits used by Yamaha. Is the Ninja VFM at 3lakhs? I'll argue, that after the RTR180 at 70k, the R15 has gotta be the sportiest bike around. Owners rave about the high speed handling of the R15, and thats the prime reason for its existence! All sport bikes are bit pondersome to ride in traffic, but once the road opens up, its a dream to ride. It hits near 140 kph crouched, and is absolutely safe at that speed.

Question is what road conditions do you see yourself riding in most of the time, and are you willing to sacrifice some comfort for the Ultimate Riding Experience? Its definately not a bike for everyone.

Personal opinion: Pulsars and Apaches are awesome fun(I ride a classic P180, and love the torque wave at every twist of the throttle,and sharp turn-in, but crave for a superior suspension), however Honda and Yamaha are better bikes in the longer run, when you take in quality of parts,ride comfort and smoother engine/gearbox into consideration.
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Old 10th November 2009, 20:55   #27
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a doubt about the race kit of r15
any idea how much increase in output will the race ecu + high lift cams alone will produce(without exhausts)?
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Old 11th November 2009, 13:11   #28
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I hope you know that the racekit is not street legal
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Old 14th November 2009, 17:45   #29
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Guys I am in the same dilemma. I am looking at a touring bike and these are my options:

1. ZMR (Too pricy)
2. FAZER (Again too pricy for 150 cc class and almost identical in terms of specs with fz 16/FZS.
3. Pulsar 220 (This looks VFM to me. Power and cheaper than Fazer)

@ sam sant2005: i have been following your review closely and finally i have come down to pulsar. Hope my experience is the same as yours.

P.S.: Can someone tell me which sadllebag would fit pulsar 220 .
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Old 14th November 2009, 18:06   #30
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For a touring bike look no further than P220 DTSi or the ZMA. I would tilt towards the Bajaj simply because its more powerful, comes with a rear disc brake, oil cooler and has the best headlamp yet on any bike in this country.
For your informtion the P220 does 100 kph @ around 6300-6500 rpm which is as relaxed as it can be. Doing 100 kph all day wont be a problem at all with the bike.
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