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Old 28th November 2009, 15:32   #31
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Originally Posted by Abbas View Post
This is in regards to the ZMR(FI) Vs. P220 (carb) debate (which is a better technology).
==========
So, my conclusion on these bike manufacturers is that on one hand you have a maker with past experience with FI and one who doesn`t. Now you make a choice who would you go with.

I have already gone up and booked my P220 Dts-i, & i didnot even liked to thought about ZM-R due to its underpowered and overpriced nature.
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Old 30th November 2009, 12:19   #32
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So, my conclusion on these bike manufacturers is that on one hand you have a maker with past experience with FI and one who doesn`t. Now you make a choice who would you go with.
Well thats not a correct comparison. HH has Honda technology, Honda has been successfully using FI in their bikes from a long time while it was BAL's first attempt. And Honda being Honda you can be assured that their FI would not be have as many problems as it was with BAL.
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Old 30th November 2009, 16:41   #33
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Guys after reading loads of reviews and comparing ZMR/RTR/P220. I have brought the plasma blue P220 yesterday. Clocked in 100 kms yesterday only and had a great time. I don`t feel a need to write a review here since much has been written by abhinav. My expi is the same as his.

Loving everybit of it guys.

Abbas.

P.S. sorry abhinav for taking over your thread for a short update.
No probs & Congrats on the plasma blue 220 mate! Enjoy your riding!! The riding pleasure is just too good that you would just munch miles on this beast!!

Just finished a 150 kms ride over the weekend. Cruising at 90-95kmph is a
breeze on the bike which I discovered on the ride this weekend!!!
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Old 30th November 2009, 19:39   #34
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And Honda being Honda you can be assured that their FI would not be have as many problems as it was with BAL.
So you expect they might have some glitches but not as much as BAL.
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Old 30th November 2009, 20:02   #35
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Well its a new bike so some or the other issues could be there, even ZMA had/has few issues just that they are not that serious.
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Old 30th November 2009, 20:41   #36
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Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Well thats not a correct comparison. HH has Honda technology, Honda has been successfully using FI in their bikes from a long time while it was BAL's first attempt. And Honda being Honda you can be assured that their FI would not be have as many problems as it was with BAL.
Honda's FI is also branded as PGM-FI, the M stands for Mapped I think. I read a long time ago in CW mag that mapped FI uses less sensors, the amount of fuel injected is based on a predefined map, which is worked out on a dyno. Theoretically only a few variables such as engine speed, throttle position, etc are required for this type of FI system to work.

I do not claim to be a technical person, far from it. I am curious as to Honda's reliability of their FI system, so would like to understand PGM-FI a little better, thats all.
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Old 1st December 2009, 14:12   #37
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totally unbiased review, liked it,
don't know why guys put down their hard earner money on a product and if there are any short comings hate to admit it.
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Old 1st December 2009, 16:26   #38
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totally unbiased review, liked it,
don't know why guys put down their hard earner money on a product and if there are any short comings hate to admit it.
Thanks for the compliments on the review Sheel!

Everyone wants to feel justified of their investment and would not want people bad mouthing the product they have bought. I am also like that but am a little practical and would not argue that though there are short comings, my product is the best. I would rather say that for my requirement the product is serving me well and yes there are a few short comings for it.
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Old 1st December 2009, 21:36   #39
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@abhinav.s:

I too understand your feeling when you say you dont wanna get bad mouthed after spending so much on a bike, on a good bike. But see Iam another owner of the very same bike and I have run double the kms you have covered. I have been riding bikes since 1995, (Im not too old ok, Iam just 26!) And all these years it has been always BAJAJ vehicles starting from Kawasaki Bajaj 4S Champion to Bajaj Sunny to Bajaj Pulsar 150 to Bajaj Pulsar 150 DTSi and now to Bajaj Pulsar 220 DTSi.

BUT the point here is not just to feel pleased by ones own decision. We have a greater role to play in a forum as big as TEAM-BHP.com. Here people make SERIOUS DECISIONS based on reviews posted here, because we have more pro's than amateurs here writing reviews just like you and me! So we need to convey the right thing to the people who dont know as much as we do about a product. (TO PEOPLE AROUND, I NEVER SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT P220 , but to TEAM-BHP I cant lie)


@All:
As a whole Iam more than happy with my bike. Even today I did a wheelie on my 220 and found it tough to do the same on my friends RTR! This thing has sheer power no doubt. Theres nothing which can match this one on the highway other then the BMW's or the Skoda's etc. Upto 10 lacs I think no car can catch a P220 assuming we dont have many roads capable of 140+ kmph speeds! Goodies offered also great. Great stability due to heaviness and as someone quoted, its the best one to cruise at around 100-110 kmph for hours since the engine is still not over strained at that point just around 6.5k rpm. Mileage a cool 35kmpl at 100kmph speeds! (And to know about my riding style, I used to get 51kmpl consistently on my P150 DTSi with similar riding style. ) Though the point to be noted is that the feel of 75kmph for P150 is 95kmph for 220!


The 220 gear shifting problem which I said is not while driving normally, it happens when she is ripped. Abhinav you might not have experienced bcoz you are in runin period and you drive reasonably soft. When u RIPP from 2 to 3rd,AT TIMES the gear does fall in place and lunges the bike forward, but when u again press clutch and press down for the 4th gear in a split second, you find the bike has just fallen to 3rd gear 'CORRECTLY' NOW! Theres some sort of a double slotting happening. Quite funny, but this has happened to me with my old Pulsars AS WELL. So to me its nothing new and so I feel this is Bajaj for you! And for others knowledge, P220 has a Clutch tech same as that used in Honda bikes, but the gear box is not the same as Honda!

Then about my overall suggestion for ZMR, I have reasons applenty.
1) The term 'ZMR' is as GOOD as using the term 'ZMA' :- Reason bcoz its HH. Reason bcoz its the same old Honda engine used in ZMA itself in ZMR which as proved for more than 6 years now. Just a few bit of goodies wont change the reliability of the bike. And FI, as Techno pointed out is not something new to HH or Honda. They have it even in Glamor and Stunner! And the risk you take with a HH will be much lesser than a risk you take with a newly launched Bajaj bike. Its the fact, accept it.

2) DONT UNDER-RATE the 17.7 PS power of ZMR. People who have riden both 220 and ZMA will know why. Theres something called TORQUE. Look at the torque ratings and you will get to know yourself. So just by seeing the 21bhp on paper for 220 dont conclude that ZMR cant be anywhere near a 220. What R15 lacks is also torque.

3) HH bikes do last MORE THAN Bajaj bikes. No matter what Bajaj does, it simply cant be the other way round. So this is a crucial thing when one goes to buy a bike. I have seen even HH bikes like Passion/Ambition etc which have run 1 lakh kms still without a glitch.

4) Maintenance, yep it depends, some people who used Pulsars have good opinion and say not much maintenance. My last P150 DTSi cost me 20k in 5 years as maintenance charges, donno if its good or bad.

5) We are comparing a FI bike with Non-FI bike because they are near competitors and 220 is giving a bad time to the FI partners in ZMR and R15!

So I again say :-

=> 220. FOR - VFM, Sheer power, torquee, Top Speed. AGAINST -Reliability and long term durability.

=> ZMR. FOR - one word for reliability and 'perfect-tourer'. AGAINST - Only bcoz we have 220 at 80k's ZMR seems to be a bit more costlier and it hurts more bcoz it 'seems' to have 3 bhp lesser than 220.

=> R15 would be the name for 'glamor' and high speed stability and braking. AGAINST - Price, City riding, power only in higher rpm range.

ZMR reduce the price and we have an OVERALL CHAMPION.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 13:56   #40
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Sam, no one said one has to say only good things about the product they buy, heck I have posted both positives & negatives of my RTR in my ownership thread.

But one should not go overtly positive & negative. On one hand you say

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005
No offence intended but as a near 5 month owner of the P220 DTSi clocking over 3700kms, I really dont think this bike is 'better' than ZMR. Agree that this might be the best pulsar till date but this is not perfect.
And on the other you say this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005
Even today I did a wheelie on my 220 and found it tough to do the same on my friends RTR! This thing has sheer power no doubt. Theres nothing which can match this one on the highway other then the BMW's or the Skoda's etc.
Lets try to keep the reviews neutral, honest & realistic. The above case for example is not realistic, there are many cars below 10 lakh which which will make the P220 disappear in their rear view mirrors, why cars we even have the Ninja now which will do the same.

So lets keep it real.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 18:50   #41
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@sam sant: Mate you seem a diabolical person. At one point,you claim that your a Bajaj loyalist while your going all out to berate the P220 and to belittle it compared to the ZMA/ZMR. EIther your a HH salesman or god know what.

Also, its a perception that HH bikes last longer or age better, i have a 12 year KB Caliber which still gives a run for the money to the newer lot of 150 bikes in city riding (well, maybe im a better rider ). And have done some riding in my 12 + yrs both on my bullet & caliber.

Also, you have had the P220 for a short duration i might add, yet your commenting on its durability i dont know why???

As Abhinav has said in his review and comments, at the end of the day , the Indian bike market has always been abt VFM- the buzzword!!! And Bajaj has beaten everyones socks off by launching the 220 at the mouth watering price with the features thrown in, otherwise why would HH do an immediate long overdue upgrade of the Karizma!!

I am sorry if im being sarcastic in this forum, and yeah as u rightly said that in this forum which is one for Pros or rather exp bikers, its all abt stating the facts and not putting down certain products!! I still think though that your a HH salesman!!! (just kiddin)

Rgds,

Last edited by Technocrat : 2nd December 2009 at 20:25. Reason: Please avoid quoting an entire long post specially when its on same page, thanks
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Old 2nd December 2009, 21:16   #42
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Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
AGAINST - Price, City riding, power only in higher rpm range.

.
yet to come across a sports Motorcycle which makes power below 5k or even 6k, every sports/superbike rider or a track day regular would like his motorcycle to have power in reserve post 8000rpm and we all know how the various other motorcycles in the same ballpark as the R15 feel at those revs...
intoxicating feel between 8-10k on the R15 is simply hard for others to match...

but this being an ownership review, lets keep it at that, the reason for my this post(here) is all bikes serve different purpose,and everyone's riding temperament and liking is different, i for one don't mind shifting gears, others would and they do. i love revs so R15 suits me, to others it doesn't.simple...
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Old 2nd December 2009, 22:26   #43
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Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Sam, no one said one has to say only good things about the product they buy, heck I have posted both positives & negatives of my RTR in my ownership thread.

But one should not go overtly positive & negative. On one hand you say



And on the other you say this.



Lets try to keep the reviews neutral, honest & realistic. The above case for example is not realistic, there are many cars below 10 lakh which which will make the P220 disappear in their rear view mirrors, why cars we even have the Ninja now which will do the same.

So lets keep it real.
Ok ok admit that I went a bit too far when I said P220 can win over all cars till the 10 lac range . Forgot about Verna and may be ANHC and Fiesta 1.6 S too ! It came from sheer over confidence driving the bike for 5 months now. Are koi to aaja mujhe harane wala... kya karoon...



Guys Iam not speaking for HH, neither am I finding fault in Bajaj for no reason. The reason why I say good about P220 is bcoz I love my bike and its performance. Why I say bad, is bcoz this is a forum and I think we need to discuss demerits too. And I dont think I went too far in that, unlike what Techo felt. Just basic things which I was referring to like the gear shifts, engine sound etc.
And the talk about durability and reliability came in from my personal experience of Bajaj bikes over the last 14 yrs WHICH Iam sure not many in the forum have => 5 Bajaj vehicles namely, 4S Champ, Sunny, P150, P150 DTSi, P220 DTSi.

There may be off cases for all manufactures wherein a Calliber stands for 10 yrs and off cases for a ZMA when it has probs. But speaking in general terms the 'durability factor' definitely shifts towards HH or Honda. My only intension is to make sure no one in this thread goes and buys the P220 thinking its a mean machine without defects.

But one thing I have seen in common though for all Pulsar owners is that ,despite some minor glitches, everyone is happy about the bike! Otherwise how do you expect me to buy another Bajaj product ===>


THE FASTEST INDIAN !


PS: PULSAR DOES GIVE THE 'EDGE' over others, psycologically. DEFINITELY TRUE. It has happend when P150 was lauched to Kill the CBZ. Then 180 clicked to compete with the Zma and now P220 relaunched to Kill everything else!

Last edited by sam_sant2005 : 2nd December 2009 at 22:43. Reason: typo
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Old 2nd December 2009, 22:29   #44
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yet to come across a sports Motorcycle which makes power below 5k or even 6k, every sports/superbike rider or a track day regular would like his motorcycle to have power in reserve post 8000rpm and we all know how the various other motorcycles in the same ballpark as the R15 feel at those revs...
intoxicating feel between 8-10k on the R15 is simply hard for others to match...

but this being an ownership review, lets keep it at that, the reason for my this post(here) is all bikes serve different purpose,and everyone's riding temperament and liking is different, i for one don't mind shifting gears, others would and they do. i love revs so R15 suits me, to others it doesn't.simple...

Try the P220.@ 6200rpm its at 100kmph . right from the word go P220 packs power. You dont need to rev her too much. And if u rev her yeah MORE AND MORE power follows. THE ONLY REASON why I dropped R15 was bcoz she felt like a unicorn if NOT revved. no 'feel'. And I dont think the power in R15 is huge at the rpm u r talking about. I felt power only after 9k. AND YES, at 10k rpm, above 90kmph, R15 bcomes the Prince! Kudos! But yaar P220 was already miles ahead by then
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Old 3rd December 2009, 08:30   #45
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But yaar P220 was already miles ahead by then
i hope you have a straight road which never ends...

i already rode a P-220(FI) for 34000kms and a zma for 17000kms to comment...anyone can ride a motorcycle which makes good power on a straight road fast, no contest and i believe i never said R15 is better, its you who is saying P-220 is better.10000rpm you are talking about, keeping at a constant 7500rpm makes the fillings loose.
immense power on a P-220, hope you won't be graduating to a bigger motorcycle...

wish you a very happy(trouble free) mile munching on your P-220, best of luck,
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