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Old 27th April 2010, 22:21   #301
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@achint : I told you to go with the 350, because you were getting in on-hand. The other reason being the same engine fitted in a TBTS. The reliability of the UCE was measured with TBTS, the bike i drove ( 350 CL) was good enough for city ride in doon. i tried the speed, and got to 110 easily on a 350, so thought that it is a bit of both, a tourer and a city bike.

talking about the problems :
I was invited to the local showroom, for a chat with """ RE "" Engineer & Regioanl sales/service executive. I told them about the leakage in randhawa's bike and the problems you are facing with yours. These people were way to off with technology, they were just bragging about the ECU program reader that costs "" 3lakhs"" , according to them their Japanese EFI system is trouble free & there is no need for a lambda sensor till EURO 5 ( i dont know much about this ) . talking about the 350 classic , the answer i got was very weird. These guys told me the RE HAD TO take chances with CL350. i dont know what they meant by that.

A bit of talking about my CI 350 : I read the pete snidal about 40 times, until i got it right. i did my carb. and my point myself. now i am running a bit lean ( but its been a smooth experience from the last 3 months ) no misfire, good idling, can easily touch 100-120. I would seriously suggest you to get a UCE service manual.

As told by the service/sales manager, i will be getting a copy of RE service manual ( official ) on a disc & a thing for auto setting my point. ( the part costs 3k and will be fitted below my seat ) after that i wont need to set my point ever again ? i seriously doubt it though.

Another lolipop i got was a 2010 year calendar by RE featuring Classic photoshoot.
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Old 27th April 2010, 22:33   #302
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@Stnair- I'll say, still go for it but if you can get the C5 then even better. There are few changes lined up in Classic and much talked about bad handling which according to RE has been resolved and in testing stages to be implemented in couple of months time. I will be writing a major update in few weeks as I have crossed 9k and soon it will be 10k. I have gone through enough to write about each and every thing including the little bits like scuffing of the sleeves and scuffing of the front mudguard with the sleeves with an easy solution. Keep an eye on my thread for an update.

@Achint- Yarr, seriously all you need is a good tuning of the carb and then I'll see if you don't grin for an hr. Let me make a trip to your hood and I'll make you smile for ever. If you still want to turn your bull into a horse over night then go for 300v. Rode 100km just today after switching over to 300v and I did not wanted to stop riding tonight, made few people test ride my bike and they all wanted to know what modification I have done and thats from C5 owners.

@Shan- you will have to wait for the official manual for few more months. I have few nice pictures of the damaged crank, piston and barrel, wait till I post them on here for your pleasure.

Last edited by Randhawa : 27th April 2010 at 22:39.
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Old 27th April 2010, 23:04   #303
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Originally Posted by shan2129 View Post
@achint : I told you to go with the 350, because you were getting in on-hand. The other reason being the same engine fitted in a TBTS. The reliability of the UCE was measured with TBTS, the bike i drove ( 350 CL) was good enough for city ride in doon. i tried the speed, and got to 110 easily on a 350, so thought that it is a bit of both, a tourer and a city bike.

talking about the problems :
I was invited to the local showroom, for a chat with """ RE "" Engineer & Regioanl sales/service executive. I told them about the leakage in randhawa's bike and the problems you are facing with yours. These people were way to off with technology, they were just bragging about the ECU program reader that costs "" 3lakhs"" , according to them their Japanese EFI system is trouble free & there is no need for a lambda sensor till EURO 5 ( i dont know much about this ) . talking about the 350 classic , the answer i got was very weird. These guys told me the RE HAD TO take chances with CL350. i dont know what they meant by that.

A bit of talking about my CI 350 : I read the pete snidal about 40 times, until i got it right. i did my carb. and my point myself. now i am running a bit lean ( but its been a smooth experience from the last 3 months ) no misfire, good idling, can easily touch 100-120. I would seriously suggest you to get a UCE service manual.

As told by the service/sales manager, i will be getting a copy of RE service manual ( official ) on a disc & a thing for auto setting my point. ( the part costs 3k and will be fitted below my seat ) after that i wont need to set my point ever again ? i seriously doubt it though.

Another lolipop i got was a 2010 year calendar by RE featuring Classic photoshoot.
Yaar tuning isn't a problem. I'll spend a couple of hours and get it right again. Even when tuned almost alright (brown plug) it just does not have any rhythm.

I can feel the vibrations, but I can't feel the piston beating.

Even that is a problem while accelerating, at stable speeds... it sounds like an auto rickshaw.

I never had a problem with less sound or something... you know that full well. But a fatt-fatt sound is absolutely unacceptable.

Coupled with the way the morons at RE treat the bike, it just leaves a very very bad taste in the mouth.

I have been riding in the afternoon heat for a few days, do you think it might impact the engine's performance to such a level?

110-120? I haven't even tried touching that. With the amount of vibrations I get at 100, it feels like the whole thing is gonna fall apart.
It just does not feel at home at those speeds.

I have run it in with almost scientific precision. Have done everything the way it was to be done. Not even a single lapse from the routine in the first 1700 kms. And still I end up with a bike that feels oddly put together. Its just a tad bit irritating.

OT: I was in Doon last week, tried calling you... your phone was unreachable. Drove to Mussoorie and back in 2 hours in the Scorpio.


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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post

@Achint- Yarr, seriously all you need is a good tuning of the carb and then I'll see if you don't grin for an hr. Let me make a trip to your hood and I'll make you smile for ever. If you still want to turn your bull into a horse over night then go for 300v. Rode 100km just today after switching over to 300v and I did not wanted to stop riding tonight, made few people test ride my bike and they all wanted to know what modification I have done and thats from C5 owners.
Sirji aap toh aate hi nahi!

I just changed the oil. Will change to 300v after another 1000 kms. Whatsay?


Please someone guide me to a good mech for the UCE engines!
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Old 27th April 2010, 23:57   #304
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It will be hard pressed to find a good UCE mechanics as most of the outside mechanics would not bother to get their hands on it due to non availability of the parts in the market.

I feel you are babying the engine way to much, start pushing over 100-110 for short burst and the vibrations will come down a lot. Secondly there is another way of reducing it which I have tried with positive results, I'll tell you later.

Go for 300v with eyes closed, you will thank me later.

Try making a trip down here man, I'll personally get your bike sorted by my trusted RE mechanic.

Last edited by Randhawa : 28th April 2010 at 00:00.
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Old 28th April 2010, 00:16   #305
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I got my UCE Electra on 22nd March. Have done 1800 kms on odo.

Essyouwee, i completely agree with you that riding the bull at 70 kmph is the most comfortable speed. It's a breeze. One just wants to keep on riding. My seat is very comfy enough to nestle my big behind. As JAY and you said that UCE is definitely much better than CIs maintainence-wise. No marking territories till now. Riding the bike in DELHI and NOIDA traffic in this summer is a problem. The engine does breathe fire after about 30-40 mins in jams. But i guess such a big engine does get heat up in this summer. The thump lacks seriously bit that was not the reason to buy it. Many CIs pass me with their loud thump but that don't bother me. As far as pick up is concerned my bike is usually the quickest leaving the pulsars behind who intentionally try to race with me but alas...lol... I feel that the pick up is decent enough to even carry the load of me(94 kgs) and either of my brothers on pillon(100 kgs each), i don't have to rev too hard and the bike just takes off easily.I will go on to say that the UCE is a 'quick' bike. Although my gripe is that the rear tyre should have been 18' like CL and the stock pillon seat should also have been much wider.
I am completely satisfied with my decision to buy this bike. I echo your sentiment in saying that that the bond with this machine is one of a kind. And yes the RE service guys are a piece of work although i'd suggest that you 'set' up a mech at the centre only. I hope you catch my drift. Regarding UCE MECHS outside service centre i dunno.

Just like you i'm enjoying it so much that sometimes i feel like just taking it out on the roads late at night like the RING ROAD etc. for the sheer pleasure of cruising it at 70 kmph without the fear of stalling and breaking down..lol..

HAPPY THUMPING(or maybe not)

BIG SARAN
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Old 28th April 2010, 00:34   #306
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@randhawa : might get an early preview according to the RE guys lets see.

@essyouwee : i think you should try and get in touch with an RE engineer ( mechanics wont do ), UCE mechanics are specially trained at the RE facility. Rest out in open market just do R & D on your bike , only trust a trusted fella, like randhawa says. Even gte your bike here in doon and we will sort something out.
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Old 28th April 2010, 00:42   #307
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I am not babying it! I just don't like the feel over 90. I do touch 80-90 almost every time I ride. 100 is touched rarely due to lack of traffic free roads.

I am running super low on the cash. How much would the 300v put me back by? Is it recommended what with the gearbox using the same oil?

After my second service, false neutrals have increased a lot.

I met a guy with a TS Electra at teh service center. He had a local made short bottle on, it sounded decent. At least not clanky, the only problem being that it was slightly loud.

Should I scout Karol Bagh for a short bottle for the CL? I probably won't get it right now, will wait till I get my paycheck.

My folks are dead set against any highway riding. It might take time to convince them... try coming down to Delhi.
There's a treat due as well.


@Shantanu

Let me see if I can get it down there. I'll probably dedicate this Sunday to tuning it right. Sold the CI?

@Big Saran

Great to know you are enjoying it! Lets meet up with the bulls sometime.

The problem with the mechs isn't setting them up. Its just that they are exclusively dumb. Even the guy who is supposedly the best there always screws my carb settings.
I got the hang of the whole tuning process a month after I bought the bike. I guess DIY is a part of one's life with a Bull.

Last edited by EssYouWe : 28th April 2010 at 00:46.
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:02   #308
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To get over with the feel you dont like, you have to cross that threshold.
Your possible cause of false neutral is due to clutch cable play. Probably it was not checked or adjusted properly hence the issue. Seriously man, you have to change your RE service centre. First get your bull running right and then go for exhaust. You might not get the exhaust with right fitting but if the guy with the TS got one and it fitted then it will fit on yours for sure I think.

I bought 3L for Rs 2550. Yes it is the right grade and meant for wet clutch operation. It supersedes technical specs for UCE.

I'll still try to make it but now I have a boss so permission wont be granted so easily. How can you forget the treat hey
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:08   #309
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Hehe! It will take some serious convincing and quite a bit of bribery.

Ess Aar is the biggest dealer in Delhi... I am guessing this is as good as it gets.

Their skill is confined to washing the bike. Ask them to do anything else and they'll act like absolute donkeys. If I can wake up early tomorrow, I'll try and tune it again.

By the way, I think 110-120 is overkill! That is probably as fast as it can go and isn't <5k kms too soon for the top speed? Shantanu ruined his perfect Bull simply because he went too fast too soon.

How about 100-105...?
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:09   #310
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@Big Saran

Great to know you are enjoying it! Lets meet up with the bulls sometime.

The problem with the mechs isn't setting them up. Its just that they are exclusively dumb. Even the guy who is supposedly the best there always screws my carb settings.
I got the hang of the whole tuning process a month after I bought the bike. I guess DIY is a part of one's life with a Bull. [/quote]

Yes my friend. Let's meet up with the bulls sometime. It'd be fun.
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Old 28th April 2010, 09:13   #311
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@EssYouWeeeeeeee

Is your run in complete? Don't change your exhaust pipe right now.. No matter what you change it to, the sound will not get better just yet.

I went through a phase where the sound of the AVL bothered me (a lot), especially when compared to the CI, but I got over it. Now that the bike has settled down, I don't pay attention to it at all and I don't even think about it. I have felt the same frustration, where I wanted to take my bike to a guy who knows it all and can fix it up for you. But, that won't happen, so you have to take the slower, more tedious route and you will end up more knowledgeable and closer to your bike .

My suggestion is to remove to catcon! In my experience, removing the catcon makes your ride smoother and removing the strangle hold reduces the vibrations. You will also gain another 3HP that will put you in the speed zone you want to cruise at! Another thing is to get your tappets checked.. it may be too tight. Also get your exhaust pipe connections checked for leakages and maybe add better seals and tighten. All this should not cost you more than a couple of hundred bucks .

If you are strapped for cash, hold off on the oil change to 300V until next time. I just changed mine and I did not see a huge impact on smoothness, although it will certainly help with keeping the engine cooler.

I agree with Jay.. no two bulls are alike and what is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. Bullets are to be "Individualized" (I don't mean customized). By that I mean you have to spend some effort to get it just the way you want it. I may spend a ton of time and effort to get my bike the way I like to ride, but that does not mean that when someone else rides my bike, they will like its feel! There are a lot of factors such as the individuality of your particular bike, your riding style, whether you prefer to take off at signal lights (low end torque) or prefer to run at higher speeds (top end). The 350 does not lack power.. in your case it looks like it lacks proper tuning. As Randhawa says, have him help you with the tuning and you will be happy again. Sometimes, it may be a very small adjustment that you may have ignored that will make the most significant improvement.

Be patient my friend, we all understand what you are going through. We also know that it can easily be overcome.

Anyhoo, there is my 2 cents worth. Good luck..
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Old 28th April 2010, 09:37   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbanavar View Post
@EssYouWeeeeeeee

Is your run in complete? Don't change your exhaust pipe right now.. No matter what you change it to, the sound will not get better just yet.

I went through a phase where the sound of the AVL bothered me (a lot), especially when compared to the CI, but I got over it. Now that the bike has settled down, I don't pay attention to it at all and I don't even think about it. I have felt the same frustration, where I wanted to take my bike to a guy who knows it all and can fix it up for you. But, that won't happen, so you have to take the slower, more tedious route and you will end up more knowledgeable and closer to your bike .

My suggestion is to remove to catcon! In my experience, removing the catcon makes your ride smoother and removing the strangle hold reduces the vibrations. You will also gain another 3HP that will put you in the speed zone you want to cruise at! Another thing is to get your tappets checked.. it may be too tight. Also get your exhaust pipe connections checked for leakages and maybe add better seals and tighten. All this should not cost you more than a couple of hundred bucks .

If you are strapped for cash, hold off on the oil change to 300V until next time. I just changed mine and I did not see a huge impact on smoothness, although it will certainly help with keeping the engine cooler.

I agree with Jay.. no two bulls are alike and what is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. Bullets are to be "Individualized" (I don't mean customized). By that I mean you have to spend some effort to get it just the way you want it. I may spend a ton of time and effort to get my bike the way I like to ride, but that does not mean that when someone else rides my bike, they will like its feel! There are a lot of factors such as the individuality of your particular bike, your riding style, whether you prefer to take off at signal lights (low end torque) or prefer to run at higher speeds (top end). The 350 does not lack power.. in your case it looks like it lacks proper tuning. As Randhawa says, have him help you with the tuning and you will be happy again. Sometimes, it may be a very small adjustment that you may have ignored that will make the most significant improvement.

Be patient my friend, we all understand what you are going through. We also know that it can easily be overcome.

Anyhoo, there is my 2 cents worth. Good luck..
I am at 2200 kms, so the preliminary run-in should be done with. The process would go on slowly till about 5k I guess.

I have already gone in for the upswept and faced disappointment.

I have been thinking about removing the catcon too. How do I do it?

I am not very sure about this, but can hydraulic tappets be adjusted? I was under the impression that they can't.

I'll sit with the Bull this Sunday and tune it. I had to do it after the first service as well.

Thanks a lot for your reply and advice!
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Old 5th May 2010, 11:31   #313
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Budhism is not the only way, there are others to attain Nirvana.
Looks like I am out of luck. III service[RE Service Center, Bannerghatta Road]done yesterday, everything was perfect, had a good night sleep and as usual went down to check on my bike today morning, I saw oil dripping through the drain plug . It was a nightmare with my previous bajaj bike; a failed drain plug thread due to over tightening by a local mechanic. I am hoping this is not the case now, took it back to service center. He will take time to fix it, I will get it back in the evening, no idea what is wrong, mechanic didn't tell me , what can I say, I have attained Nirvana already.
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Old 5th May 2010, 11:43   #314
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Budhism is not the only way, there are others to attain Nirvana.
Looks like I am out of luck. III service[RE Service Center, Bannerghatta Road]done yesterday, everything was perfect, had a good night sleep and as usual went down to check on my bike today morning, I saw oil dripping through the drain plug . It was a nightmare with my previous bajaj bike; a failed drain plug thread due to over tightening by a local mechanic. I am hoping this is not the case now, took it back to service center. He will take time to fix it, I will get it back in the evening, no idea what is wrong, mechanic didn't tell me , what can I say, I have attained Nirvana already.
Thats bad.Another case of the service center messing up a perfectly good motorcycle.Reading your post sends shivers down my spine when I think of going to my sevice center.Anyways,hope evrything is sorted out.
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Old 5th May 2010, 17:10   #315
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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
I am at 2200 kms, so the preliminary run-in should be done with. The process would go on slowly till about 5k I guess.

I have already gone in for the upswept and faced disappointment.

I have been thinking about removing the catcon too. How do I do it?

I am not very sure about this, but can hydraulic tappets be adjusted? I was under the impression that they can't.

I'll sit with the Bull this Sunday and tune it. I had to do it after the first service as well.

Thanks a lot for your reply and advice!
The catcon, in this case, a hot tube rests in the bend pipe, at that corner where the bend pipe meets the muffler. Removing is a job that an experienced welder who knows his way around spot welding can do in about half an hour. The welder will welding set to the hot tube and usually hammer it out. Gruesome to witness for some bulleteers, but don't worry, it is a standard procedure.

The debate about removing/ not removing the hot tube is something that only you, the owner can take a call on. Like Ganesh said, removing the hot tube will make your Bull considerably smoother, but you will also lose some amount of low end torque as the hot tube does provide some restriction by causing some back pressure. If this restriction is done away with, you'll gain at the top end, especially if you are running a free flow exhaust and intake, and lose out on the bottom end.

About adjusting the hydraulic lifters, RE most probably has recommended that Hydraulic lifters are self adjusting. This is partly true but hydraulic lifters also need adjustment as wear and tear occurs over a long interval. About how qualified RE mechs are to work on such high precision components is something I won't get into. Here's a link that you might like to go through. Hydraulic Lifters

Cheers,

Jay
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