Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd February 2010, 21:45   #46
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,192
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Rennjit,

Drilling done. INR 200 for the job. PM me if you or anyone want the contact for drilling the jet out.

Raj,

Yeah IIRC 0.6-0.8 mm. Cross check because this is from my memory.

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2010, 22:59   #47
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 137
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
Rennjit,

Drilling done. INR 200 for the job. PM me if you or anyone want the contact for drilling the jet out.
@Jay - Can you tell us how you managed to lay your hands on the slide to begin with and how much it cost you? So, the two holes at the bottom of the slide have been enlarged, if you dont mind please post a picture. Eagerly waiting for your report on how this mod works out.

Meanwhile, I am liking the VM28 more and more. As mentioned in an earlier post, one needs to be really careful with throttle inputs, it doesnt take much to induce knocking. Here are some further observations:

1. the engine has changed completely, it is now smooth like velvet. It delivers the power with a velvet gloved punch. Nice, but only if you curb your enthusiasm and chop the throttle crisply, should be second nature to me in a couple of days.

2. The bike coasts along with much lower resistance and the burble now with throttle shut is classic bullet, regained a bit of the old bike's soul with this one. I suspect this is because of the 25 pilot and the fairly large gap under the slide even with the throttle fully shut, a healthy mix is being fed even with throttle shut.

3. The exhaust note is not loud but is extremely refined and velvety, its not deep and rumbly. Nice and smooth, someone on the forum described it as wet. How a carb change can effect the exhaust note so drastically is beyond me.

4. Because of the smoother running engine, the gear shifts have improved a lot. Earlier downshifts were extremely rough and the engine labored in any gear other than 5th, now it is smooth in 4th as well and I am finding that I am in no hurry to constantly shift up.

5. I havent checked with any degree of accuracy, but I can tell the fuel economy has dropped quite a lot.

Taken as a whole, the carb has brought many improvements. Would I recommend this carb to everyone? I wont because the overly sensitive throttle is a deal breaker for many, most will get irritated rather quickly I suspect. But let us say you are from the old school and looking to recapture some of the old magic, then it makes perfect sense.
Beast_of_Burden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2010, 23:04   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,192
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Here are pics of the oil cooler mod for the LB500. And no this isn't my LB500. It is one of my friend's LB500. This mod is only for the AVL engines, both 350 and 500. The oil cooler will consume 100 to 200 ml oil and comes with high temperature resistant hose pipes. The oil hoses are built to work at high temperatures and works at high pressure. PM for cost and contact of the oil cooler mod as I don't make these oil coolers. For Bangalore team-bhpians I can install if they want. Also, here is the pic of the ported slide.


The oil cooler for the Cast Iron engines is a work in progress. The oil cooler for the cast iron engines will be smaller as the cast iron engines come with a piston based oil pump that pumps less oil than the gear type pump of the AVL. So, a bigger oil cooler won't work as the oil pump won't pump enough. The bottom line is, these mods will help to increase engine life by keeping engine temperatures in control, especially in slow moving traffic and hot weather.

Cheers,

Jay
Attached Thumbnails
2007 LB500, Second owner’s review-oil-cooler-lb1.jpg  

2007 LB500, Second owner’s review-oil-cooler-lb5001.jpg  

2007 LB500, Second owner’s review-slide-porting1.jpg  

JayPrashanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2010, 23:20   #49
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,192
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beast_of_Burden View Post
@Jay - Can you tell us how you managed to lay your hands on the slide to begin with and how much it cost you? So, the two holes at the bottom of the slide have been enlarged, if you dont mind please post a picture. Eagerly waiting for your report on how this mod works out.

Meanwhile, I am liking the VM28 more and more. As mentioned in an earlier post, one needs to be really careful with throttle inputs, it doesnt take much to induce knocking. Here are some further observations:

1. the engine has changed completely, it is now smooth like velvet. It delivers the power with a velvet gloved punch. Nice, but only if you curb your enthusiasm and chop the throttle crisply, should be second nature to me in a couple of days.

2. The bike coasts along with much lower resistance and the burble now with throttle shut is classic bullet, regained a bit of the old bike's soul with this one. I suspect this is because of the 25 pilot and the fairly large gap under the slide even with the throttle fully shut, a healthy mix is being fed even with throttle shut.

3. The exhaust note is not loud but is extremely refined and velvety, its not deep and rumbly. Nice and smooth, someone on the forum described it as wet. How a carb change can effect the exhaust note so drastically is beyond me.

4. Because of the smoother running engine, the gear shifts have improved a lot. Earlier downshifts were extremely rough and the engine labored in any gear other than 5th, now it is smooth in 4th as well and I am finding that I am in no hurry to constantly shift up.

5. I havent checked with any degree of accuracy, but I can tell the fuel economy has dropped quite a lot.

Taken as a whole, the carb has brought many improvements. Would I recommend this carb to everyone? I wont because the overly sensitive throttle is a deal breaker for many, most will get irritated rather quickly I suspect. But let us say you are from the old school and looking to recapture some of the old magic, then it makes perfect sense.

Raj,

I bought the slide from a Bajaj distributor. It cost me INR 378, with 12.5% VAT. I'm waiting to try the slide. Just finished servicing the LB500 by myself today. Simple but tiring due to the sheer effort. Right now, one of my friend who is building a LB500 Cafe Racer already has the slide mod on. Lets see what he says. Waiting for his feedback. I'm also thinking of a tuned length intake. No more top speeds for me. More torque is the target.

Good to hear that you're enjoying the VM28. Imagine the scene if you an find a VM32. Top end will improve too with a bigger venturi. Meanwhile, the VM28 is a great bet if you like the quick response especially in the city. And anyway top end isn't the biggest concern as we'll lose out big time on reliability if we keep chasing high speeds on our old tech bullets. Mileage will obviously go down. Great review man. Keep them coming.

Cheers,

Jay

Last edited by JayPrashanth : 2nd February 2010 at 23:29.
JayPrashanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2010, 23:58   #50
Senior - BHPian
 
deutscheafrikar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mumbai & Candolim
Posts: 1,155
Thanked: 316 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beast_of_Burden View Post
@ Deutsch - Here are the pics of the innards you requested. These are pics of the top of the CV carb, the float side isnt too different from a del'orto type carb so I havent included those pics.
BOB thanks for the photographs. I came by your thread after a few days. Anyway I think you need to try and get this.
Morgan Carbtune - carburetor synchronizer for balancing motorcycle carbs
make tuning easy for you
regards
deutscheafrikar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd February 2010, 00:10   #51
Senior - BHPian
 
deutscheafrikar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mumbai & Candolim
Posts: 1,155
Thanked: 316 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
The New Zealanders and Aussies in particular had this issue, till they totally shunned Indian made pistons and started patronizing the forged items of JP Pistons.
Jay
I believe that JP's pistons are cast. Or did you mean J&E pistons. Now I believe J&E pistons are forged.
regards

Last edited by deutscheafrikar : 3rd February 2010 at 00:14.
deutscheafrikar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd February 2010, 11:49   #52
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,192
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deutscheafrikar View Post
I believe that JP's pistons are cast. Or did you mean J&E pistons. Now I believe J&E pistons are forged.
regards
Yeah, is is J&E pistons who make forged items.

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2010, 20:17   #53
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 137
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
Raj,

I bought the slide from a Bajaj distributor. It cost me INR 378, with 12.5% VAT. I'm waiting to try the slide. Just finished servicing the LB500 by myself today. Simple but tiring due to the sheer effort. Right now, one of my friend who is building a LB500 Cafe Racer already has the slide mod on. Lets see what he says. Waiting for his feedback. I'm also thinking of a tuned length intake. No more top speeds for me. More torque is the target.

Good to hear that you're enjoying the VM28. Imagine the scene if you an find a VM32. Top end will improve too with a bigger venturi. Meanwhile, the VM28 is a great bet if you like the quick response especially in the city. And anyway top end isn't the biggest concern as we'll lose out big time on reliability if we keep chasing high speeds on our old tech bullets. Mileage will obviously go down. Great review man. Keep them coming.

Cheers,

Jay
@Jay - Any updates on how the modified slide is working?

The VM28 is unbelievably smooth. The 25 size pilot seems to be large enough to keep the bike cool in traffic so no concerns there, matter of fact it seems to be running somewhat rich as there is carbon deposit on the plug rim but the metal tips are a brown.

I implemented a couple of ideas to slow the throttle rate. As I had mentioned before, the throttle needs to be modulated with great care to avoid knocking. I used a hacksaw to grind down some of the plastic on the throttle to reduce the diameter of the throttle cam(hope i have the terminology right), this means that a larger turn of the wrist is required to raise the slide the same length vis-a-vis the earlier cam diameter. I bummed this idea off from a Triumph forum.

I also found the stock carb spring(the long spring that sits between the slide and the top) that ships with the VM28 to be overly soft and wasnt offering enough tactile feedback, got a replacement which is approximately 30% longer and slightly stiffer. This has weighted up the throttle much better, the control over the throttle has improved hugely.

The economy(the bike's that is) meanwhile has nosedived. The CV carb is a mileage champion comparatively. Progress with the oil cooler mod has been slow primarily because it is hard to source the rocker pipe, however the distributor in Bangalore apparently has the rocker pipe for the non-ES model. Will get to check it out next week.

One other possible mod that I have started researching is the possibility of experimenting with the CI500s cams. No idea what this will do to the bike's powerband, if it is anything like the CI500 I would be happy. Are the cams readily interchangeable? If so, has anyone tried this experiment?
Beast_of_Burden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2010, 22:21   #54
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,192
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

My friend Rakesh, in Pune is yet to start testing the ported slide. You are trying to make the VM more like a CV with the mods. Good going. Stick to it if you like it. A 25 pilot without a larger intake means you are very rich or you have an air leak. On a CV you'll be bogged down, but since you are running a VM, you don't feel it as the carb compensates with the response. Any way, terrific mods. Keep it going and give us your feedback.

The oil cooler is working very well. I have the figures with me and I will post them shortly. Getting the rocker Y line shouldn't be all that difficult. Go to the brand store in Hyderabad, meet the Area Service Manager there and ask him to raise a VOR order. Usually he will oblige. The material will reach you in under a week with you bearing the courier charges. If all fails, I'll source it for you. See, like I said before, sourcing parts for older REs, especially the AVLs are getting tougher by the day. Stock up. For the UCEs too, parts are an issue with gaskets also not being available freely in places far away from Chennai.

The CI500 cams won't work on the LB500. We are currently doing the opposite on CI350s. CI350/500 cams are interchangeable and the same applies to the LB350/500.

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2010, 21:57   #55
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 137
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
The CI500 cams won't work on the LB500. We are currently doing the opposite on CI350s. CI350/500 cams are interchangeable and the same applies to the LB350/500.

Cheers,

Jay
@Jay - Please clarify if the cam profiles are the same for the LB350 and 500? Your reply seems to suggest they are different, if Yes could you elaborate in terms of lift and dwell time. Frankly I do not understand how these two factors influence the power band, all I know about cams is that their timing and profile can have a marked impact on the power band. My understanding is that cams designed for low end power will not work well at the higher revs and vice versa(the raison d'etre for Vtec).

If anyone has experimented with this mod, any other cams other than stock AVL cams, please post your feedback. One member on bulletech has posted that std cams have been used on the AVL engines to improve low end torque especially for the Leh trip. I have seen pictures of the std and the AVL cams on RE USA forum and they are markedly different, I didnt think they were interchangeable either.
Beast_of_Burden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2010, 10:40   #56
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,192
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beast_of_Burden View Post
@Jay - Please clarify if the cam profiles are the same for the LB350 and 500? Your reply seems to suggest they are different, if Yes could you elaborate in terms of lift and dwell time. Frankly I do not understand how these two factors influence the power band, all I know about cams is that their timing and profile can have a marked impact on the power band. My understanding is that cams designed for low end power will not work well at the higher revs and vice versa(the raison d'etre for Vtec).

If anyone has experimented with this mod, any other cams other than stock AVL cams, please post your feedback. One member on bulletech has posted that std cams have been used on the AVL engines to improve low end torque especially for the Leh trip. I have seen pictures of the std and the AVL cams on RE USA forum and they are markedly different, I didnt think they were interchangeable either.
The LB350 and the LB500s cams are same. Absolutely no difference. Likewise, the same applies for the CI350 and the CI500s cams. The LB cams do have higher lift than of the CIs cams. A friend of mine, Jairaj is running LB cams on his 4S Electra and his top end has increased quite a bit but he is struggling with low rpm and idle stability. These cams he is running will be good for oval track racing/drags, but not for the street. About people, plonking CI cams on the LBs, doesn't make too much sense. To improve low rpm performance, lots of things can be done instead of changing cams and seriously compromising the top end. For starters, a torque cone in the exhaust.

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2011, 21:23   #57
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 11
Thanked: Once
Default Re: 2007 LB500, Second owner’s review

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
The oil cooler is working very well. I have the figures with me and I will post them shortly. Getting the rocker Y line shouldn't be all that difficult. Go to the brand store in Hyderabad, meet the Area Service Manager there and ask him to raise a VOR order. Usually he will oblige. The material will reach you in under a week with you bearing the courier charges. If all fails, I'll source it for you. See, like I said before, sourcing parts for older REs, especially the AVLs are getting tougher by the day. Stock up. For the UCEs too, parts are an issue with gaskets also not being available freely in places far away from Chennai.
Great thread folks.
@Jay I am pretty interested in adding this cooler to my LB500. I will wait for your data to decide on going with it or not. BTW did you go with the Pulsar oil cooler or the other make?
int3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Second Car in America: 2007 Mazda 6 (V6 Grand Touring) akbaree Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 14 16th February 2012 22:42
LB500 to STD350, your thoughts please! JayPrashanth Motorbikes 7 15th May 2010 14:22
She's here...The LB500 navpreet318 Motorbikes 57 4th January 2010 12:31
2005 Black HONDA Eterno 200+ Kms,Second owner's review ashwanth Motorbikes 4 26th December 2009 15:10


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 12:58.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks