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Old 6th September 2005, 00:03   #1
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Default Compared-ZMA vs 180 dtsi-type 1...

well, hello fellow bhpians...i recently acquired the zma, and she is currently giving company to my 180 dts-i, non-alloyed version (henceforth referred to as type 1). both of these bikes are absolutely wonderful, and since these two are the current performance kings in india (except the CKD comet and the legendary RD- A.C & L.C), i thought a small summary is in order; so here goes...

p.s- due to the rains, couldn't take their pics...but i shall post the pics pretty soon...

LOOKS:

well, you don't need any elaborate revelations here...all are familiar with the nooks and crannies of the 180 and the zma...but overall, the zma emerges the winner, the 180 coming in a very close second.

RIDE & HANDLING:

well, the pulsar's suspension is stiffer than the zma's, and seems to have lesser travel. now this is great if you are riding solo, but two- up travelling poses a slight problem over broken roads, as the suspension tends to bottom out. in stark contrast, the zma isn't that different in terms of ride quality when driven solo, but it simply rides like a dream when driven with a passenger. but of course, both the (rear) suspension setups are adjustable, and so the ride quality can be varied, but overall, the zma triumphs. and as an added bonus, the seat of the zma is a far more comfortable place to be in than the 180.

both bikes handle very differently. the 180 handles like an enthusiast's dream, whereas the zma feels more planted, sturdy, and confident - like a big bike. the 180 is far more easier to flick around, and crazy lean angles can be achieved pretty quickly... the zma handles like a big bike, and is not that receptive to quick direction changes...but, nevertheless, the zma accquits itself well. the handling honours, go to the 180 dts-i; a hands down winner. a worthy mention here, is the old 180- it was an absolute scorcher, and both these bikes are nowhere close to the handling capabilities of the old 180... but, as a compensation, the zma and the 180 offer fantastic composure and stability at high speeds, with the zma leading the pack.

ERGONOMICS:

the switchgear and the seat comfort of the zma is much better, and it feels worthy of every penny spent on it... the 180 feels like a budget sportster, but is pretty good nevertheless. the main difference that you notice is the build quality and finish. the zma feels more solidly built, and looks and feels like it will last quite some time. the pulsar, on the other hand, develops rattles and squeaks quite early in it's life. another thing worth mentioning is the starter. whereas the zma purrs into life at the slightest touch on the self button, the 180 needs to be cranked for at least a second or so before the engine fires... this itself, tells a lot about the bikes....as they say, the first impression is the last impression...

ENGINE AND PERFORMANCE:

again, bucketloads of specs don't need to be poured in here, as all are aware about the power, torque and other specs...but let me tell you, the way in which both the bikes deliver the power is very different...the 180 seems eager to pump out all of it's 16 horses, and begs to be revved to it's 10,000 r.p.m redline. the fact that it loses steam at about 9000-9300 r.p.m is a different matter... the 180 feels like an rx, and shoves you back everytime you crack the throttle. this paticular character of the 180 makes it a stunter's favourite toy....the zma, on the other hand, offers the same acceleration, but in a far more composed manner.
as for performance figures, i feel that the zma can outdo the 180- i'm stating this because; i've ripped on both the 180 dts-i and the zma(not mine); whilst a new 180 struggles to reach 110, a new zma crosses the 120-122 kmph mark easily. i have managed to max them both (again, this wasn't done on either of my rides) at 140, speedo read. but the zma pulls more strongly past 110-115. so, a proper tuner can unleash those untapped horses, without stressing the engine. therefore, the zma, is overall a faster bike; but, the pulsar will be able to cream it under traffic conditions; this is due to the simple fact that the pulsar can change directions quicker than the zma...

RESULT:

the 180 dts-i (v1) is a fantastic machine. but then, so is the zma. so, when it comes down to the heart of the matter, both are winners in their own respects. if i had to choose an overall winner, it would have to be the zma, without doubt- especially after the price-cuts, it's good value for money. but the 180 isn't an inferior product- not by any means...it's just that the strengths of the 180 differ from that of the zma's... the 180 is a more of an enthusiast's bike, and is great for short-term ownership...but at the end of the day, you might want a bike that you can keep riding for the next 3-4 years, at least...

Last edited by veyron1 : 6th September 2005 at 00:10.
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Old 6th September 2005, 10:44   #2
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Hmm Good comparo but am really surprised how can you say Pulsar has better handling :o Dude I can agree that Pulsar is more Flickable but handling ZMA is miles ahead of the Pulsar, The ZMA can lean much faster & with the least amount of effort than the pulsar. I mean both can pushed around & on ghats both will perform similar but the way ZMA leans is just awesome.

Btw I am surprised you didnt mention the difference in braking abilities of both bikes. Also you left the million dollor question 'Bhai sab mileag kitna deta hai'
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Old 6th September 2005, 14:53   #3
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One more info required. What are the chances of crashing a pulsar as opposed to a zma.. in your opinion.
AFAIK, the new 180's fat rubber is superb on dry, but slips like crazy even on slightly wet surfaces. Moreover, inspite of the pHatter tyres, therir profile is round, so the contact patch remains small. Compare that to the 150dtsi's (version 1, a.k.a v1) tyre which had a squarish contact patch. While on the zma, crashing feels like an exercise only possible if you're hellbent on getting there.

Comments welcome.
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Old 6th September 2005, 20:05   #4
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Quote:
am really surprised how can you say Pulsar has better handling :
Quote:
Btw I am surprised you didnt mention the difference in braking abilities of both bikes. Also you left the million dollor question 'Bhai sab mileag kitna deta hai'
the reason for me quoting that the pulsar handles better is becuase of one factor- the zma tends to go slower through a corner than a 180. try leaning both the bikes at equal speeds around the same corner, and you'll find that the zma exits a little wider than the 180- hence showing that the pulsar can enter and exit a corner faster, sticking to the desired line. and yes, the 180 is definitely more flickable...but show them both some bumpy corners, and the zma will come out trumps, because it is much more forgiving...

sorry for leaving out some of the stuff- i was about to go into the finest of details, but then the write-up would've been too long...ah, yes- the braking...the pulsar has a lot more feel into the lever, and you can feel the front suspension struggling to cope up with the rate of retardation. the pulsar has excellent brake feel, and it seems to stop quicker than it actually does. the zma goes about doing it's duty without any fuss, and even though the lever lacks the bite a'la the 180, it actually stops quicker and earlier than the pulsar. but since there isn't much feel, you don't get the exact idea as to how quick the bike is shedding speed. i would rate the zma's brakes to be far superior, but the pulsar's brakes have much better feel and bite....and as for the fuel efficiency, i haven't been able to calculate the zma's yet, but the 180 gives me about 42, overall (my riding comprises mostly of 9000 r.p.m upshifts and an average riding range of 6500 r.p.m). but looking at the way my zma's guzzling away at her belly of fuel, i'm guessing she should be bearing a F.E of 40 kmpl-at least... but i shall confirm the figures and keep y'all posted.....

Quote:
One more info required. What are the chances of crashing a pulsar as opposed to a zma.. in your opinion.
well, given the proper riding conditions, both bikes are unlikely to get into a bind. but since the pulsar tends to instill that extra sense of confidence, the 180 is more likely to kiss the tarmac if the rider doesn't know what he's doing. ah- but the if the zma decides to pay homage to mother earth, she'll sustain much more damage than the 180; that's mainly because the zma doesn't have a crash guard. and also, the front quarter fairing, if damaged, will cost you a pretty penny....

and as for wet driving conditions, the zma is definitely better off, mostly due to her dynamics and wheelbase; the tyres aren't a differentiating factor, as both bikes sport 2.75x18 MRF zappers up front, and 100/90 R18 MRF nylogrip zappers at the rear...but the alloys go a long way in putting that rubber on the road for the zma....
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Old 6th September 2005, 21:16   #5
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Fuel efficeincy the hands down winner seems to be the pulsar... i dont get more than 32 on my zma(clocked 19000+)... what so ever.. but 180 dtsi owners claim 40+
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Old 6th September 2005, 21:51   #6
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Maybe we should compare the P180 Type 2.it is much much improved over the type I.the engine is much smoother as is the power delivery.also the dynamics and ride have improved since it has alloys,rear gas shocks and extended wheelbase and also a shorter height+ tweaks to the engine.but it will definately strugle for topspeed due to its shorter gearing.IMHO it needs a 6-speed shifter to cross 125kmph(easily).yes i agree about the seats though,not very comfortable on the pulsar

i have got a average of 52kmpl once(didnt cross 45kmph) and regularly get about 48kmpl.

But at 62K on road in mumbai,it is a dream VFM proposition.also another factor that i like is the Pulsar 180 DTS-i(type 1and 2) are quite rare sights on the roads compared to the no of Zma's i see every 500mtrs.
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Old 7th September 2005, 10:35   #7
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@veyron: ZMA goes wider i agree coz of its longish wheelbase but now way does it go slower on a curve than the 180 infact i ahve taken it faster than the 180 on same curves. As about the brakes i would say ZMA brake are like having abs if you compare it with the p180 i mean u need efforts to skid the front even with gravel on ground :-)

@merve_extreme: Yeah man even i hardly see any 180s in mumbai & I wonder why ??
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Old 7th September 2005, 22:49   #8
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Quote:
ZMA goes wider i agree coz of its longish wheelbase but now way does it go slower on a curve
i didn't say the zma was that slow...besides, he..he.. you are contradicting your own statement...how can you push a bike to go faster through a corner if it washes wide..?? as the speed increases, you run farther away from the desired line of entry and exit...but like i said, the zma could beat the 180 (type I and II) in a proper test track, due to it's overall handling...

and as for the power and speed figures- check out the latest copies of overdrive...they have DYNO-TESTED 12 bikes, including the 180 dts-i type-II and the zma...and figures don't lie..the zma puts out 14.10 ps of power (13.90 bhp) at 6800 r.p.m and 16.33 nm of torque @ 5600 r.p.m at the rear wheel. the top speed, as tested, was a mind-numbing 140.93 kmph, making her the fastest mass-production indian bike...!!!! now, this was astonishing, even for me...but the story doesn't end there- just check out the new O.D, and you'll see the dollops of accolades for the zma in other departments as well...

the 180 dts-i, v2, pumped out 12.52 ps(12.34bhp) at 8100 r.p.m, and 12.56 nm of torque at 4150 r.p.m, at the rear wheel. now, this is in stark contrast to the manufacturer claims. but there's a catch- the manufacturer claims the power and torque figures at the crank, not at the wheel. so, the drop in the specs is to be expected...oh, and by the way, the 180 v2 recorded a top speed of 129.07 kmph....

and i still believe that performancewise, the older 180 dts-i, v1, was miles ahead. handling-wise, nothing comes close to the classic 180. you can't even imagine the sort of speeds that you could subject her to, through a corner- unless you experienced it...and trust me, i have- i used to have a classic 180....

and has anyone heard of the new bajaj pro-biking bonanza...i think hero honda should adopt the idea immediately, at least for the zma and cbz owners...i happened to take my 180 dts-i to the local bajaj showroom today, where i dynotested (sort of) the bike myself...and here are the results...(bajaj has told every major dealer to install a MRTB- multiple rolling test bed; or something; it's a rolling load dyno, and can be souped up to give bhp and torque readings too- in it's current form, the apparatus gives out 0-60, top-speed, 60-0[braking], & fuel efficiency readings...)

the pic of the "dynotested" chart of my 180 dtsi-v1....



sorry for the image quality...i was in a rush, and couldn't take the pic properly...but for those who can't make out, my 180 gave these readings- top speed:137 kmph; 0-60:3.8 secs; braking, 50-0:19.8 metres; F.E: 74.6 kmpl....!!!!!!!!! of course, these figures are under IDC/ TC.....

p.s- i think the main reason for the slackening sales of the 180 is due to the fact that the 150 and the 180 (v2)look exactly the same-and gives lesser f.e...a bhpian could distuinguish a 180 and a 150 by the minutest of detail, but to the commoner, the 180 is just a more problematic 150... but i guess that's set to change with the 180 dts-i "v3"; the pics of which have been given in this month's o.d- it looks stunning, actually- the only changes are to the alloys, and the entire engine- they have been painted black- but the results are appealing....and bajaj intends to give this all-black treatment to the 180's only (at least initially)....NOW, the 180's should be distuinguishable.... and, IMHO, the zmas are less as common, if not more, than the 180....

p.p.s- k.d, i think you should check the set-up of your zma...all the dudes i know who own zmas, report 35 kmpl+....
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Old 8th September 2005, 09:13   #9
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Yes the ZMa goes wider but go faster on curves coz u can lean it more on higher speeds as caomapred to the 180.

Again you are using handling & flickability in the same breath . Its not. The classic was surely more flickable tah any of the later versions of the pulsars but was also one of the worst handlers especially on high speed.

yeah mee too had got my 180 dyno tested & the figures were: Top speed: 134kph, accelaration was same as urs & mileage was 76.xx but in my riding it was different story :P

Hehe as about my zma got the mielage checked properly before giving for my 3rd service today & surprisingly it was 32.xx kpl :-D this is when my bike wasnt serviced for last 5k kms :( Also all the dudes who ride like i do get similar figures, if you wondering what i mean ask anyone about riders of RSA in pune
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Old 8th September 2005, 14:08   #10
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Guys

I own a ZMA and frequently go out with my friends from PUG (Pulsar User Group) on long rides. Here is what we have concluded. The ZMA is faster across the rev range compared to any version of the 180 and its significantly faster at the top (~10kmph). In fact during our rides we cruise at 115-120kmph and when ever a car overtakes us the pulsar guys give me a thumbs up and I increase my speed to go car hunting!!

Regarding handling, unless the curve is really tight ZMA will be faster than the pulsar. Overall on a race track ZMA will easily beat any of the 180's. Braking, I'm satisfied with the front brakes, wish the rear brakes were a little better. Mileage for my riding style its 30kmpl.

Hope this helps.

chao
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Old 8th September 2005, 15:26   #11
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Again you are using handling & flickability in the same breath . Its not.
nope, i am not using handling and flickability in the same breath- as both bikes can't be cornered flat out (at speeds of 120 kmph+), we're talking about cornerning speeds under 100 kmph, or track speed cornering. agreed, handling involves more than just plain flickability, which is why, under track conditions, the zma will come out on top. but under traffic conditions, or under subtle ripping (speeding and cornering upto 100 kmph), the pulsar is always better. and besides, the zma can't take tight corners with as much velocity as the pulsar.... but, like i said, the zma is the better bike overall....

Quote:
The classic was surely more flickable tah any of the later versions of the pulsars but was also one of the worst handlers especially on high speed.
even people here tell me the same thing, but i didn't find any problems while cornering on my classic, uptil speeds of upto 100-105 kmph.... but then again, maybe that was due to my weight....

so here's my overall conclusion...

1) the best overall long-term, and fastest bike: zma
2) the best enthusiast's bike: 180 V1
3) the most VFM ripper: 180 V2
4) the most remembered...: 180 classic....

p.s- regarding the F.E., the figuers that you are quoting might be true under everyday riding conditions...but i think the zma's capable of delivering 40 kmpl under continuous and varied driving....but yes, 35 is what you shall normally get....
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Old 8th September 2005, 16:08   #12
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Yo totally agree with the conclusion :-)

As abt FE heck I can get around 50 kpl from my 180 DTSi V1 & arnd 38-40 from my ZMA But then I didnt buy them for mileage, did I
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Old 9th September 2005, 03:50   #13
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Hey whats the diff between the Classis and the V1. Which was the one with the steering damper. Did'nt that have a really steep steering head angle.
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Old 9th September 2005, 04:26   #14
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both the pulsars had the steering damper. the main changes made to Dtsi was the dual sparks set and the new exhaust and the headlamp fairing.

I was the owner of the old pulsar and frankly speaking the old pulsar was miles ahead when it came to the fun to drive factor.

About the comparision of Karizma and the pulsar180 it is like comparing chalk and cheese. Karizma is a cruiser meant for highway cruising at high speeds. On the other side pulsar is meant to be put at test in the traffic signal GP's.

PUlsar corners more better but its the karizma that is more comformtable in those tight angles just because of its wheelbase.

but to put it in the figures right the pulsar 180 dtsi has a higher top speed than karizma and hence even in straightline it will beat the Karizma. Corners is also pulsars forte. The advantage Karizma has is that it will perform all these tasks so comfortably that at the end of the day the rider will be relaxed while the person driving the pulsar will be exhausted.

both are thumbs up for different kinda users.
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Old 9th September 2005, 10:38   #15
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Ok a few clarifications:

Only classics had steering dampers, the DTSi's had better steering geometry & hence did not need any.

Pulsar (any variant) DOES NOT have higher top end than ZMA (Donít believe too much in mags)

& for god's sake ZMA is not a cruiser; itís more like a Sports Tourer or just Tourer but no way a cruiser.

As for the difference between classic 180 & DTSi here's the list:

- Digital Twin Spark ignition engine
- New advanced CDI
- Longer Wheelbase
- Rectangular box swing arm in DTSi as compared to tubular in classics for better stability
- New Headlamp
- New clear lens rear lights
- No steering dampers in DTSi
- Front Fork travel on DTSi was a bit more than classics
- New looks Silencer

I guess I have covered all the changes if I have no mentioned any please do so.


And before any one feels that I have a bias towards any particular bike, just take a look at this thread

My Steeds
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5519 (My Steeds !!!)
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