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Old 4th March 2010, 08:12   #136
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Speaking of the 6 month waiting period for the 500, I came across a post on the RE site where a chap claimed he collected his within a week of booking!! I wonder if he had to pull some strings...
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Old 4th March 2010, 23:53   #137
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Now some very bad news and my fears have come true.

I had a slight noise(from piston or crank) issue at 350km which kept on creeping me for a long time and RE refused to admit that there was something wrong. Head and block were removed to check for any damaged part at 5k on the odo. Nothing abnormal was reported as every thing was checked by hand which to me is quite astonishing act of engineering as how did they managed to check the service limits of the parts with their bare hands(measurements are in microns for rings and con rod bush play).

Anyway on 2 March on my way back from Kasauli. The same noise raised it's ugly head , now that noise has been multiplied by three times and any one standing next to the bike can make out. At last Anastassia had enough of RE and proved them wrong. C5 engine is not indestructible, at least not for me. It's rattling/knocking like on LSD and acting like a diesel engine with air in the injectors.

First I thought to check the compression. It came out to 170Psi, scared the hell out of me. Then after letting the engine cool down it came out to 155Psi, which is far more then the limit of 110Psi. Head was de-carbed at 5K and compression was checked at that time came out 115Psi. Now at 6300k it has managed to shoot up from 115 to 155Psi within a span of 1300km. RE still doesn't want to admit it has fueling problem with the absence of O2 sensor. I believe it's due to rich mixture which turns into carbon and raises the compression pressure to more then what the piston can handle. Hence the parts getting worn out so soon.

But saying that, engine noise appeared just after 350km and I don't think it can accumulate so much carbon in that time to raise the compression. So now I will have to wait until the new parts come in before they strip it down to see the cause of the problem and mend it.

Till then I'll take her out only in the darkest hours and empty roads so no one sees me and her rattling away in shame.

Last edited by Randhawa : 4th March 2010 at 23:58.
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Old 5th March 2010, 00:30   #138
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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Now some very bad news and my fears have come true.

I had a slight noise(from piston or crank) issue at 350km which kept on creeping me for a long time and RE refused to admit that there was something wrong. Head and block were removed to check for any damaged part at 5k on the odo. Nothing abnormal was reported as every thing was checked by hand which to me is quite astonishing act of engineering as how did they managed to check the service limits of the parts with their bare hands(measurements are in microns for rings and con rod bush play).

Anyway on 2 March on my way back from Kasauli. The same noise raised it's ugly head , now that noise has been multiplied by three times and any one standing next to the bike can make out. At last Anastassia had enough of RE and proved them wrong. C5 engine is not indestructible, at least not for me. It's rattling/knocking like on LSD and acting like a diesel engine with air in the injectors.

First I thought to check the compression. It came out to 170Psi, scared the hell out of me. Then after letting the engine cool down it came out to 155Psi, which is far more then the limit of 110Psi. Head was de-carbed at 5K and compression was checked at that time came out 115Psi. Now at 6300k it has managed to shoot up from 115 to 155Psi within a span of 1300km. RE still doesn't want to admit it has fueling problem with the absence of O2 sensor. I believe it's due to rich mixture which turns into carbon and raises the compression pressure to more then what the piston can handle. Hence the parts getting worn out so soon.

But saying that, engine noise appeared just after 350km and I don't think it can accumulate so much carbon in that time to raise the compression. So now I will have to wait until the new parts come in before they strip it down to see the cause of the problem and mend it.

Till then I'll take her out only in the darkest hours and empty roads so no one sees me and her rattling away in shame.
Randhawa,

I'm very sorry to hear this man. Really very sorry. I know how it feels, especially as our bulls mean a little too much to us. Don't ride around till things are sorted out. The engine will frag itself at those compression levels.

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 5th March 2010, 06:18   #139
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Sorry bout this mate! Hope you get this sorted out pronto :(

Do you think it has anything to do with your particular bull? However, I've read about others whose plugs turned black in no time, albeit they claim that this happens mostly in the north of the country.

Whatever it be, I hope you get fixed soon. Good luck!
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Old 5th March 2010, 07:58   #140
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Nice thread, but it is disappointing to read about all the unsorted issues, I am surprised to read about these. I am glad I decided to hold on to my 500LB that has done over 5000 kms with zero issues - the only rust is on the plated front mudguard clamps. And the mirrors. No big deal, the bike is running very sweetly, and I shall hold on to her. Every now and then I get tempted to change the pipe, but I don't want to risk upsetting the balance that the system seems to be in at the moment!

Last edited by Sawyer : 5th March 2010 at 08:01.
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Old 5th March 2010, 09:18   #141
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Randhawa,

Its shocking as well as heartbreaking to hear about your Bull. But lets hope all issues will be resolved soon . Your persistant efforts in bringing out the flaws to RE Engineers will help in making better Bulls for future Customers like me
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Old 6th March 2010, 19:18   #142
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A feeling has been creeping up on me for some time, helped along by Randhawa's own posts, that RE has really delivered a lemon with the CL500. They did a lot of cost-cutting with the EFI without the necessary R&D to make sure the thing works. It was really recklessly irresponsible of them. It would have been far better if they had just released a carb version of CL500, than this sorry vehicle that has dashed the hopes of all RE lovers.

But then RE is a company essentially run by one man who seems to rely more on his gut instincts than the brains of his engineers.
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Old 7th March 2010, 22:41   #143
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Thanks for the condolences lads.

@Jay- If the top rig is gone presuming that it has then I still have three more rings to keep it alive although thats risky. The nocking like a metal banging is loud enough for a three wheeler driver to give me a sympathetic look.

@Fel- Black smoke issue seems to be with every C5's I have come across. The noise which gradually became worse is in almost every C5's and also in some UCE TBTS.

@Sawyer- Seems like few LB5 owners are happy rubbing it in for C5 owners I wish I had never gone for upswept exhaust, I was just doing fine with the stock. The parts quality is so bad that even my upswept exhaust started rattling within 4 days.

@Stnair- yeah sure dude, future buyers if any(the way things are going) will benefit if RE improves.

@Rollin- A open loop ECU can still work wonders if mapped right without an O2 sensor. But now I strongly believe its the imbalanced mapping which is screwing things up. If only they admit their fault and rectify the issue then things will be much better for RE and present/future C5 owners.
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Old 8th March 2010, 07:59   #144
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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post

@Sawyer- Seems like few LB5 owners are happy rubbing it in for C5 owners I wish I had never gone for upswept exhaust, I was just doing fine with the stock. The parts quality is so bad that even my upswept exhaust started rattling within 4 days.
Sorry if it came across that way! But the bad news is that RE, that was able to put out a well sorted out 500 AVL out of the blocks, went backwards with this one. End of the day, it is not such a complex product, and there is no reason why RE could not have done a lot better than they seem to have. And the surprise is that they seem to have failed on fundamentals in many places. Apart from the EFI systems, because if it was just that, to some extent it would be understandable.
And I assume you are going back to the stock pipe?

Last edited by Sawyer : 8th March 2010 at 08:00.
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Old 8th March 2010, 09:27   #145
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Sorry to hear about the bad experience.

I think rich fueling is a common issue with CL as I remember reading the same in another forum. RE should have done enough research before cost cutting on the indian model.
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Old 8th March 2010, 19:22   #146
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Quote:
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The nocking like a metal banging is loud enough for a three wheeler driver to give me a sympathetic look.
Is this metal banging at all rpms or just when idling?
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Old 9th March 2010, 00:58   #147
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@Sawyer-Its cool man no offense taken. I will be going back to stock pipe. I love the muted noise and I am not like other peeps who like it loud.

Frankly I think it puts a bit stress on ex valve when you are using it with a stock filter. Its better to have a short filter with the upswept to make the most of it. Personally I feel its just the noise which makes you feel its going faster but saying that I saw some improvement in the top end. Response from 115 to 124 improved a bit.

@Patiencewins- The reason why RE is having issues is because nothing was designed in-house. Engine designed and sourced out of India and so was the EFI system. ECU comes pre-programmed from the vendor so not much they can do except call in the experts from outside. They wanted to save some cash in a hurry hence the issues cropping up.

@jingaboysr- All rpms, only shuts up on deceleration.
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Old 9th March 2010, 08:41   #148
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@Sawyer-Its cool man no offense taken. I will be going back to stock pipe. I love the muted noise and I am not like other peeps who like it loud.

Frankly I think it puts a bit stress on ex valve when you are using it with a stock filter. Its better to have a short filter with the upswept to make the most of it. Personally I feel its just the noise which makes you feel its going faster but saying that I saw some improvement in the top end. Response from 115 to 124 improved a bit.
Assuming that RE knows system design, I had always suspected that changing the exhaust pipe would change the system balance as set up by them, and as you suggest, the next thing to change would be the intake flow via the filter. But then more air is going through the system, and that would call for rejetting - on the carburetted 500LB. And that would have its own needs to keep the system balanced. Hence I thought I will leave things as they are, stock all the way. Unless I found someone really knowledgeable, which I haven't so far, so stock it remains.
The other weird thing I had heard about the new bike is that while RE was offering the upswept pipe, they were also making noises about consequent warranty implications. Thinking that to be ridiculous, I had dismissed that as hearsay noise. Now, I don't know. Do you?

Last edited by Sawyer : 9th March 2010 at 08:44.
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Old 9th March 2010, 10:55   #149
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oh man looks like you got a lemon and RE is not ready to accept that.

I had a freakish accident last week. Gave the bike for service the next day but looks like the spares are still not easily available yet.
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Old 9th March 2010, 15:14   #150
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@Sawyer- Yeah I heard that too but my dealer says otherwise. Will ask my RE engineer though.

@Indian21r- Spares wont be available off the shelf for at least a year as all the bulls coming out of Chennai will be UCE hence the shortage due to vendors not able to fulfill the demand. But thats just what I think by seeing how things are going at the moment.

Dont know if I got a lemon or rest of the c5 gang will turn into lemon later on. If you never go into three figure speed then chances of turning into lemon are rare. Saying that I never bought the bike for riding between 80-90. If I cant ride on average at 110 by spending 1.3L then I should have saved my money buy buying a smaller CC bike which would far out run the bull in case of reliability.

Last edited by Randhawa : 9th March 2010 at 15:20.
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