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Old 16th October 2011, 08:22   #1981
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
@ Sutripta: The 500cc EFI, UCE engine has a crankshaft sensor to tell the computer where TDC is so the signal is sent every 360 degrees of crank rotation.
Thanks. So a wasted spark setup.
Observation about first syncing and the limited travel of the kick still hold.

Incidentally can someone tell me where in relation to TDC did the ammeter flick back in the old CI?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 16th October 2011, 08:31   #1982
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Thanks a lot Aussigreg, I will surely follow your suggestions.
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Old 16th October 2011, 09:56   #1983
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Thanks. So a wasted spark setup.
Observation about first syncing and the limited travel of the kick still hold.

Incidentally can someone tell me where in relation to TDC did the ammeter flick back in the old CI?

Regards
Sutripta
Timing for the CI 350 was approximately 10Deg BTDC so the ammmeter would show discharge a little before that, swinging back to zero on spark. At hi RPM , the max advance is about 32 deg BTDC and these values are subject to the adjustment of the points plate , the point cam drive gear and the condition of the centrifugal advance mechanism.

Regards
Naren
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Old 16th October 2011, 10:04   #1984
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Finally I have my RECL 500 in a state that I always wanted it to be:
  • Cleaned and polished
  • Rear seat removed
  • Crash guard installed
  • Small niggling problems like side stand, oil leakage resolved

Thanks a lot to Team-BHP and especially to Randhawa - I have realized one of my long standing dreams!

The only thing that remained was to do a photo shoot. I did that earlier today and here are the results.

Key to Happiness
The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-key-tbhp.jpg

Happiness Personified
The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0221-tbhp.jpg
The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0215-tbhp.jpg
The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0213-tbhp.jpg
The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0214-tbhp.jpg
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Old 16th October 2011, 22:12   #1985
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Hi,
Not really a Bulleteer. Not really familiar with either the CI or the UCE. But I'm sure these follow general engineering guidelines.


The sprag will fail if it is consistently made to handle torques beyond its design values. (Or if it has manufacturing defects). Question then becomes what is causing these out of bound values.


Confused.

A few questions regarding the ignition of the various models.

UCE 500: Is the ignition handled by the ECU?

UCE350: How does the ignition map differ from that of the UCE 500? In fact can someone post the relevant maps.

AVL 500: What exactly did the delay circuit do? What effect did it have on the sprag clutch?

What would be the pros and cons of retarding the ignition during startup?

Regards
Sutripta
Clearing out any confusion;

CI- Cast Iron block. The ones we have grown watching all our life.

AVL/LB- Lean Burn- These were the transition bikes before a leap to UCE- It had NRB roller bearing big end. Much improved rocker bearing design incorporated into the head. Had longer slimmer shaped head. Last Machismo versions and the first generation Thunderbird were with LB engine.

UCE- Unit construction engine, sharing single grade oil and inclosed gearbox unit.

You just answered your own question- Old sprag could not take the load of the crank rebound. Not designed for such torture or we can say poor design and quality which is the case for the Crank RHS NRB failing and being updated to INA NRB from Germany. Fitted to present C5 and Std 350 only.

Regarding ignition timing- C5 timing is controlled by ECU. No maps available as of yet.

Timing difference between UCE 350 and 500- UCE 350 timing set around 8 and UCE 500 set at 10. On UCE 350 the timing is controlled by the TCI unit pre-programed which has only two source of info to run the engine.

1. Pulser coil/crank position sensor
2. TPS- sensor attached directly to the throttle cable. Easy to retard/advance timing.

For 500 it's the ECU which does the thinking with the feedback from the following;

1. Pulser coil
2. MAP not MAF
3. TPS
4.Engine oil temp sensor

I had read it once about the delay circuit which is incorrect info so correcting my self by saying that RE had retuned the TCI unit to start the engine easily without any kickbacks hence saving the sprag.

Not sure about pros and cons.




Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian View Post
@ Randhawa : Please help me out with this problem. Ever since I bought my machine, it was diving to the right when I let go off the handle bars. The bike was delivered with the cam gears adjusted to 11 in the right and 10 in the left. On my complaint about the lack of stability, the cams were adjusted to 11 on both sides with no effect. They also said that the wheel alignment had been checked and all was well. So I had let go off the problem and started to live with it till I noticed that the chain was biting a bit on to the left side of the rear sprocket and the chain was also heating up a bit. So I loosened up the axle nuts and adjusted the cam gears to 12 in the right and 11 in the left. The chain biting into the sprocket has ceased but even now the bike dives to the right and when viewed from the rear the rear wheel is for sure facing 11 O’clock instead of 12. Now my question is should I further increment the right cam gears and bring the difference to more than 2 notches among the two sides ? Please advice .
Mostly I say the the notches on the adjuster to be same on booth side but I have seen them with different notches from factory done purposely to get the alignment right.

So for you I will say try this;

1. Remove the swing arm and the bushes.
2. Inspect if the bushes need replacing, if they are fine then grease them and the pivot. Assemble everything back but do not tighten the pivot bolt too tight just yet.
3. Assemble everything at rear and keep the notches same.
4. Take off the centre stand and sit on it. No re-tighten up the pivot bolt again but leave some play.
5. Go for a 2km ride.
6. Now finally tighten up the pivot bolt nicely while still off the centre stand and you sitting on the bike.
7. Go for a ride again and see if it makes any difference.
8. Inspect the chain movement over the rear sprocket with the bike on C stand.
9. Re-adjust the handle bar through the hole under the handle bar bracket. An experienced mechanic should know how to adjust it right.

All the above should help.




Quote:
Originally Posted by aussigreg View Post
Randhawa, Ive read on this thread where at least one member complained of instability after the swing arm bush change. This makes me want to look elsewhere for the problem, er go, somethine else I've noticed there seems to be too much flex in the forks. Watch your front axel on a smooth road at highway speed, tap front brake without backing off. Also try inducing a very controlled slight tank slap over 80km/h. Flex in the forks should see the back end feel as though it wants to whip but for your own sake be careful. I concur with what you say about different fork oil levels and I don't believe that the front guard does much to brace the two forks together.

Point? short wheelbase + steep rake/trail + twisty flexing forks + speed = problem.

Cure: get old and ride slower. I would look for more testimony on the one stop swing arm bush before I sing the exclusive song of its success.
If I can get things right with the CI bushes so can anyone else if done right but you have the right to wait it out.

It scared the crap out of me when I had observed the flex but it's the same with older bullets and they are darn straight so I think it's not the reason for our instability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradhey View Post
My C5 has no Bite in the rear brakes despite new brake shoes.
Is there anything else I can look into, to rectify this situation.
Do one thing for next time. Cut straight lines onto the shoe, it will help in less accumulation of brake dust and help from squealing, improve brake feel. Also get the cushion pads replaced if play is there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashroy_6 View Post
HI, i have just purchased classic 500 desert storm on the day of its launch...trust me buddy the bike is giving me 35.1 kmpl (it ran for 320 km for 9.1 ltrs of petrol) and this is all in city driving below 50 km/hr.
Congratulations comrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Thanks for the post!



Agreed. The starter has to be disengaged from the engine when it fires and picks up speed. Otherwise the self-starter will spin at a zillion rpm and self destruct. This is the one and only work of the freewheel. Everything else is a side effect.
In cars there are alternative schemes for disengaging the starter once it had done its job.




Agreed. So my original question: why not retart the spark at startup?


We'll come to ECUs later on. There is a reason for it.


Would really like the answer to the ignition questions posted before. Too many queries.

Eg. Was the delay (AVL 500) a retarding of the spark, or a timed delay which prevented a spark till the starter had built up some speed so that inertia would carry the piston over TDC?

Regards
Sutripta
RE would never had the trouble of sprag and stuff only if they could have stuck with the design of the guy who sold off his original ES design to RE. This chap from Chandigarh had designed the ES using M800 starter and his bike is still running to this day with his designed ES for bullet without a single hitch. But RE payed off this guy for his ES design and never implemented his design fully. I never understood why.

So your question why not to retard timing. It does not needs to be retarded if the auto de-comp is setup just right in a UCE. Till this date with more then 20k on old design sprag, I have yet to experience a kickback on my C5. Reason, I set up the auto de-comp just right to make it work flawlessly or at least I hope it keeps it that way.

Not sure about what RE did with the retuned TCI but now I am on it and I will find out next week. Will keep you posted.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
@ aussigreg

Your stability problem on the 500cc C5 has been seen in the U.S. by many owners too.
If your bike has the AVON Speedmaster tires on it try lowering the tire pressure.
These tires have very stiff sidewalls and the lower pressure should greatly improve your bikes high speed stability.

If your not already doing this, try a pressure of 18 PSI (1.27 bar) in the front tire and 24 PSI (1.69 bar) in the rear. It seems to help.
A Adjusting tyre pressure is the easiest way to resolve instability but at the cost of tyre wear. Keeping front 18 PSI and rear 28 PSI kept me happy but the rear tyre was gone under 10k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
CLASSIC CHROME is so drool worthy..

Damn.. why did they not have this option when i bought mine..
Would have looked nice along side my Machismo
Yeah I had the same thought when I looked at it. But it can be done easily under 15k.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Any lift-theta values for the decomp? And where in relation to TDC?


The TBTS does kickback.

Can someone give definitive information of the delay circuit of the older 500, and actual details of the 350 UCE ignition?

Regarding ECUs: In a car, before the ECU starts any work (Ign and FI), it first has to sync itself to the engine. Essentially it waits for an index mark. Logically from the cam (cycle = 720 deg). Then it gets down to the job of running the engine.
BUT
The RE kickstart has very limited travel. Does it waste one kick to just sync itself? (Note with a electric start, it is not a problem.)

Regards
Sutripta
I will let you know shortly about the 500 TCI unit.

What in particular you want to know about the UCE 350 timing? It's set at 8.

Usually with one kick it does only two strokes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoghe View Post
@ArizonaJim, @girishab
Thanks for your suggestions. I had tried to figure out if the leak was from oil drain plug, and although I felt that was the case, when I took it to the service center, it turned out to be related to some seal broken where the kick start joins the body. The service center has fixed it and I will monitor it for a few days to check if it has really stopped.

While I was at the service center, I also got the rear seat removed, replaced the side stand that was damaged and got the bike thoroughly cleaned and Teflon coated. It is looking so good that I can't take my eyes off. Got a lot of appreciative looks on my ride back from the service center.

Have a look at the few first pages of this thread. Was it the same place where I had the first leak? If it's the same place and by any bad luck it leaks again then get them to change the kick shaft cover and not just the ring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
Glad to hear you got your leak problem fixed.

@ Sutripta: The 500cc EFI, UCE engine has a crankshaft sensor to tell the computer where TDC is so the signal is sent every 360 degrees of crank rotation.

As for chrome, I would think there would be auto waxes made for clear coat paint available in India? (I use Meguiar's Gold here in the US)
These waxes thoroughly coat the surface with a layer of wax which keeps all moisture and oxygen away from the chrome and any bare steel that may be present.

They also protect the paint without scratching it and they leave a mirror like polished look when they are lightly buffed.

Admittedly I live in the desert but my chrome and black fuel tank and chrome fenders still look like new and I attribute much of this to the wax protection I applied.

On my 10 year old Mazda Miata, Meguiar's wax has kept the ultraviolet radiation away from the paint and the protection seems to last over 3 months if I can believe the water beading that the wax produces.

Even if the wax only lasted a month, as small as a motorcycle is it only takes a few minutes to apply a good coating of wax and buff it with a clean rag to a mirror like shine after the bike is washed.

With as much rain as you folks get in India you would have to wax the inside of the chrome fenders and chainguard and that would be kind of a pain but because these areas are protected from direct sunlight the wax should last a long time.

The only area where wax won't work is on the exhaust pipe and the silencer.
These get much too hot for wax to last over a few minutes.
Just updating you on UCE 500 crank sensor/pulser coil setup. On a C5 the crank sensor triggers at every 15 so its more accurate and helps ECU to respond better. On a UCE 350 the crank sensor triggers only at 360.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoghe View Post
Finally I have my RECL 500 in a state that I always wanted it to be:
  • Cleaned and polished
  • Rear seat removed
  • Crash guard installed
  • Small niggling problems like side stand, oil leakage resolved

Thanks a lot to Team-BHP and especially to Randhawa - I have realized one of my long standing dreams!

The only thing that remained was to do a photo shoot. I did that earlier today and here are the results.

Key to Happiness
Attachment 827648

Happiness Personified
Attachment 827649
Attachment 827650
Attachment 827651
Attachment 827652
Looking very sweet, congrats again Your bikes engine is a gem, I hope you keep her that way.

Last edited by Randhawa : 16th October 2011 at 22:15.
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Old 16th October 2011, 23:36   #1986
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Talking Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Hi,

Well my story goes like this.
I have been following this thread quite for the last few months. so finally decided to book a classic 500 1 month back. But it was quite shocking when after enquiring from the showroom I was informed that the waiting period would be close to 8 months. Left the showroom quite disappointed. From team-bhp I came to know that the classic chrome and desert storm models are getting launched on 29th Sep. So decided to have a look. Fell in love with the desert storm colour. the icing on the cake was when i was informed by the sales guy that i could take the bike the same day if i pay them in down payment as there was some launch scheme going on by the company. As a matter of fact the showroom had got only 2 bikes in desert storm color out of which they were ready to give one.

well i am attaching the pics of the beauty...enjoy
Attached Thumbnails
The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0531-1072-x-712-.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0534-940-x-1415-.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0536-1072-x-712-.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0537-1072-x-712-.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0539-1072-x-712-.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0541-1072-x-712-.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0545-1072-x-712-.jpg  

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Old 17th October 2011, 09:05   #1987
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by hexanerax View Post
Timing for the CI 350 was approximately 10Deg BTDC
So (assuming symmetrical cam profiles), traditionally the Bullet was kicked to life from 10 deg After TDC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
CI- Cast Iron block. The ones we have grown watching all our life.

AVL/LB- Lean Burn- These were the transition bikes before a leap to UCE- It had NRB roller bearing big end. Much improved rocker bearing design incorporated into the head. Had longer slimmer shaped head. Last Machismo versions and the first generation Thunderbird were with LB engine.

UCE- Unit construction engine, sharing single grade oil and inclosed gearbox unit.
Thanks. Even I, a non Bulleteer, know that!

Quote:
Fitted to present C5 and Std 350 only.
And the others?

Quote:
For 500 it's the ECU which does the thinking with the feedback from the following;

1. Pulser coil
2. MAP not MAF
3. TPS
4.Engine oil temp sensor
These will be inputs to the ECU. How this information is processed is what I'm interested in.

Quote:
I had read it once about the delay circuit which is incorrect info so correcting my self by saying that RE had retuned the TCI unit to start the engine easily without any kickbacks hence saving the sprag.
Details on how.



Quote:
So your question why not to retard timing. It does not needs to be retarded if the auto de-comp is setup just right in a UCE.
In a digital system, ignition timing is extremely simple to remap. So what is being done?
The next question then becomes details of the auto decompressor. Essentially three parameters: - lift, duration (Indexed to TDC), cut in and fully engaged RPM. More information on engine behavior (cranking speed on kick and with starter, behavior on ignition kill etc will be necessary later on. )

Quote:
Not sure about what RE did with the retuned TCI but now I am on it and I will find out next week. Will keep you posted.
Thanks. That should be interesting.

Quote:
Usually with one kick it does only two strokes.
So my earlier comments about ECUs and kick starts.


Quote:
Just updating you on UCE 500 crank sensor/pulser coil setup. On a C5 the crank sensor triggers at every 15 so its more accurate and helps ECU to respond better. On a UCE 350 the crank sensor triggers only at 360.
The UCE500 will need an index mark. Most probably a missing tooth.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 17th October 2011, 10:53   #1988
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradhey View Post
My C5 has no Bite in the rear brakes despite new brake shoes.
Is there anything else I can look into, to rectify this situation.
My C5 has brakes made of cheese at the rear. My bull is now 10 months old and had developed issues. Reduced braking is one of the major ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
@ aussigreg

Your stability problem on the 500cc C5 has been seen in the U.S. by many owners too.
If your bike has the AVON Speedmaster tires on it try lowering the tire pressure.
These tires have very stiff sidewalls and the lower pressure should greatly improve your bikes high speed stability.

If your not already doing this, try a pressure of 18 PSI (1.27 bar) in the front tire and 24 PSI (1.69 bar) in the rear. It seems to help.
My C5 over the speed of 100 kmph is extremely skittish, it gives me no confidence to go faster than that, i run on 22 PSI in the front and 28 psi at the rear.

My C5 is more comfortable taking a left turn than on the right side. I have brought this to the notice of the ASM (area sales manager) but to no respite.

The Fuel Injection on my bullet makes the bullet 'cough' example in 3rd gear at 35 kmph, the bike 'coughs'

There is premature rusting on the paint job, the electricals have given up in just one season of rains (even after using the fugly rain protection for my bull)

The Fuel consumption has hit a all time new low - i get an average of 25 kmpl, which i guess is bad.

In all the problems mentioned above for me the biggest and most disappointing one from my bike is the high speed instability.

If any of you have any suggestions for the same - do let me know.

Regards,
ac
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Old 17th October 2011, 19:04   #1989
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post

These will be inputs to the ECU. How this information is processed is what I'm interested in.
ECU takes reading from MAP sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor),TPS (Throttle position sensor), Crank Position & compares it against the MAP table, which basically has all the corresponding ignition timing & fuel quantity. Its more accurate than carburetor system, one can simply tweak MAP table & engine can do wonders

MAP table is like a bible for ECU, this system is called open loop.

Now if you add one more sensor, called lamda sensor at the exhaust you get oxygen reading. With this ecu can calculate if engine is running lean or not. This system is called as closed loop as ECU will now calculate corresponding timing & fuel using O2 sensor along with other sensors to obtain lean burn. It will only use MAP as a backup or for engine start. If the ecu is in learning mode, ecu will generate its own MAP table for all the conditions its been though. This is available in export version of all RE engines.

Close loop systems are much better than open loop as its more dynamic & can adjust to any conditions, however for racing they use open loop with re-programmed map table as the response is more predictable & you can tweak for more power.
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Old 18th October 2011, 04:50   #1990
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@ ac 427
Your mentioning of the 35 kmph "cough" brings these thoughts to mind.
First, I consider 3rd gear to be a bit too high for a speed of 35 kmph (21.8 mph). Perhaps riding in 2nd gear at that speed would solve your problem?

Have you changed the spark plug recently?
The Bosch WR7 DDC4 sparkplug that came with my RE caused a misfire in 5th gear at 72 kmph. By changing it to a NKG BPR6ES all misfires vanished and after over 3200 km it still looks like new and shows no sign of wear.
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Old 18th October 2011, 09:31   #1991
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by siddharth_menon View Post
ECU takes reading from MAP sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor),TPS (Throttle position sensor), Crank Position & compares it against the MAP table, which basically has all the corresponding ignition timing & fuel quantity. Its more accurate than carburetor system, one can simply tweak MAP table & engine can do wonders
Thanks. Though was actually wanting a bit more than that.

Quote:
MAP table is like a bible for ECU, this system is called open loop.
A table indexed on Manifold Absolute Pressures, or parameter table(s) popularly called maps?

Quote:
This system is called as closed loop as ECU will now calculate corresponding timing & fuel using O2 sensor along with other sensors to obtain lean burn.
What would be the relation between lambda and Ign timing (as applicable on a UCE)?
The UCE500 is a lean burn engine?
The export version uses a wideband?

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 18th October 2011 at 09:34.
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Old 18th October 2011, 10:03   #1992
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post

What would be the relation between lambda and Ign timing?
The UCE500 is a lean burn engine?
The export version uses a wideband?
Here is an abstract from wiki

"
The ignition timing will need to become increasingly advanced (relative to TDC) as the engine speed increases so that the air-fuel mixture has the correct amount of time to fully burn. As the engine speed increases, the time available to burn the mixture decreases but the burning itself proceeds at the same speed, it needs to be started increasingly earlier to complete in time.

The ignition timing is also dependent on the load of the engine with more load (larger throttle opening) requiring less advance (the mixture burns faster). Also it is dependent on the temperature of the engine with lower temperature allowing for more advance. The speed with which the mixture burns depends also on the octane rating of the fuel and on the air-fuel ratio.
"


Load can be calculated by throttle position, RPM & volume of air intake.
O2 can give feedback to ECU as to how the mixture is burning & adjust the timing as well.

Indian models necessarily will not lean burn always. Will behave predictable according to map table index & this is not dynamic. Example if you change your silencer to retro fit, the airflow of your exhaust changes & ideally you should do a re-map w.r.t to new silencer. But if you have a closed loop then it will auto adjust. Even a closed loop system follows map table index but can variate according to conditions to some percentage (This % is defined in ecu programming ).


Lamda sensors are usually expensive somebody mentioned its 15k for C500 & may be that is why Indian version come without it. Open loop system is not very bad, any day better than carburetors. Some ECU switch to open loop at high rpm to deliver better performance etc.

ECU programming has lot of scope in terms of tweaking your engine.
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Old 18th October 2011, 12:33   #1993
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

many thanks to both of you, i was supposed to shortlist between CL500 black or desert storm and both of you have posted you bikes snaps back to back which was good for me to compare

http://www.overdrive.in/details/483

a good link of overdrive giving an insight on changes in CL500 DS and Chrome

Last edited by ruchirtnt : 18th October 2011 at 12:35.
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Old 18th October 2011, 16:29   #1994
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

If anyone is thinking of installing the OEM chrome gear rack on the C5 read this:

Firstly be prepaired for it to be a bit distorted and probably not fit. You'll need some cloth gaff tape like all rock musicians use for everything and a piece of plastic about 40-50mm square (I cut a piece out of an ice cream container). Other than that, spanners and thread compound.

Crack your top shocky nuts and loosen, bend the carry rack to fit between shockies, mark where rear rack mounts meet fender side bars, wrap a piece of tape around each bar. Here's the trick! spread rear mounting clip to allow bar to fit insde it and flatten one side of it a little- not too much or paint will flake off it. Hold piece of plastic against fender to protect it and squeeze clip over bar from underneath. It's a hell of a tight fit. From here you can apply compound (always on everything compound) and do up fasteners. At the shock both nut and washer should tighten over rack and shock, don't get the washer between the rack and shock.

Now my rack doesn't quite sit level when you look at it so when I get an hour I'll have to elongate the rear mounting eyelet on one side and bend that sucker to fit.

I saw some pictures of someone's rusty crash bar on here and it was mounted with no washers, thread compound or protective tape between it and the frame and I thought, "why not just wire your accessories on if you hate your bike?"
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Old 18th October 2011, 20:24   #1995
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Location: Dehradun / Bangalore
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Thanks. Though was actually wanting a bit more than that.


A table indexed on Manifold Absolute Pressures, or parameter table(s) popularly called maps?


What would be the relation between lambda and Ign timing (as applicable on a UCE)?
The UCE500 is a lean burn engine?
The export version uses a wideband?

Regards
Sutripta
The oxygen sensor, rather than having major effects on the ignition timing , generally adjusts the duration of the fuel injection . Exhaust oxygen measurement is an indication of the mixture rather than the ignition timing. A rich mixture will cause the oxygen level to decrease and a lean one will cause it to increase. Generally , oxygen sensors influence the mixture at lower rpm and throttle positions.
After the engine is warmed up, Injection duration is generally influenced by manifold air pressure ( that is a function of throttle position and engine vacuum ( influenced by engine load)), and throttle position.
Ignition timing is generally controlled more by engine speed and temperature and generally increased temperatures will show increasingly retarded timing as will lower RPM ranges.
Hard data on the c5 ecu is difficult to come by and rarely does the manufacturer release the actual mapping or the logic.
I have one of the early C 500 bikes and ever since i changed to the Bosch Platinum fusion surface gap quad electrode plug (Check an early post on this forum on page 23 or so) , never has my bike misfired , surged or had starting issues. One of the main culprits for those issues are the short low speed runs that many bikes are subject to. The engine does not remain at high temperatures long enough for the carbon in the plugs to burn off. Also , the increased torque and power of this engine allows the rider to keep a low throttle opening and rpm , making the bike run rich.
On a recent trip to Leh and beyond , the bike started an ran without any issues whatsoever all the way from Dehradun ( 2200 ft ASL ) to Kardung la ( 18000 + ft ). From temperatures of 37 Degs in the plains to -4 in Pangong Tso. Bike returned a toal average of 31 Kmpl ( rode up double and down single with luggage both directions ). A group we met running BMW 1200 GS bikes had serious issues with altitude above 16000 Ft but the enfields never missed a beat. There was misfire above 17000 Ft but i guess that was just a lack of oxygen and very high load conditions.

By the way , lean burn was just a marketing term used by enfield and is in no way connected to the actual stratified charge engines that merit the use of that term.

The very operating principles of a petrol engine ( variable compression ) make it impossible to run the engine in a lean or ideal condition over the entire rpm and load range. A standard CI 350 engine can be run lean enough to be borderline in terms of detonation and a lean burn will run rich over part of it's range. Most engines need to run quite rich ( AF ratio below stoichiometric ) in order to keep temperatures in the combustion chamber at safe levels.
The lean burn AVL engines had optimized valve geometry and improved piston and ring design. this allowed better breathing and burning combined with lower blow by losses.
The constant vacuum carb did its part by allowing the throttle slide to be completely controlled by engine vacuum rather than our right wrist ( which just opens the throttle plate rather than lifting the slide.

Most Ox Sensors used these days are wideband although i cannot vouch for the one in the C5.

Regards
Naren
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