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Old 1st December 2012, 03:51   #2881
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

iron.head is correct about the G5 model in the US.

I own a G5 Deluxe, known in the Indian market as the Bullet Electra Deluxe and can say without hesitation that it is rock solid stable at all speeds up to 134 kmph (83 mph).

This model uses a frame that is slightly different than the 2009-2011 C5 and that seems to be the difference.

The US owners of the 2012 C5 with its new front forks have not mentioned that they have had a problem at high speeds yet. This new front fork does not have the offset of the front axle that all Royal Enfields have had since 1948.

As for lower tyre pressures, the US riders have found that using a front tyre pressure of 18 psi (1.24 bar) and a rear tyre pressure of 25 psi (1.72 bar) resolves the problem.
I found it interesting to note that the old BSA's and Triumph's in the 1950's used the same size tyres as our Royal Enfield Bullets and they all used these same lower tyre pressure values so the idea of using these low pressures is not new.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 1st December 2012 at 03:52.
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Old 1st December 2012, 16:13   #2882
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
What exactly is this instability issue on CL-500 we are talking about here?

I dont see any instability atleast till 100kmph. It's a different matter that I dont seem to able to push the bike beyond 100kmph due to various reasons ( wind, noise and 100kmph feels really fast etc...) but, i never found the bike unstable

I rode the bike constantly at 90kmph-100kmph for 120kms and it felt plonked on the road.
Well I had this problem when I bought my C500 just after its launch. instability was a horrible experience when I crossed 110km/hr. Later I researched and found this guy on http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum who took this to his heart.

He removed one part at a time to test the cause . It was suspected that loose C5 extended mud guard when reaches its resonance frequency (usually 110km/hr) the tail starts to vibrate. Now it was not confirmed if it was the chassis resonance or just mud guard. Later he removed mud guard & it still persisted.

He realised when he added extra rubber bush with a brass washer to the swing arms the wobbling stopped.

At that time I reached out to a senior engineer at RE and shared the link with him. He called me up and asked me to take the bike to nearest service center. There I met Ghisad, we tried couple of things and tested. To be frank I never had this problem ever since, I have touched 140km many times.

In a nut shell all we did was added some extra bush & tightened all the nuts & screws. I think this was the time when RE was exploring the problem and thought this solved it.

Now I am not sure the real cause of the problem but primarily I advice others to get all your nuts tightened, make sure the read mud guard is not vibrating. I feel that the chassis resonance cannot be avoided but adding extra bush to swing arms & tightening the nuts only reduces its effect.

Bike is smooth once you cross the resonating frequency speed.

Do read this post, I must have mixed up some details as this was long time back. http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/fo....html#msg94090
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Old 2nd December 2012, 13:14   #2883
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

The major issue with my C5 got resolved yesterday. My bike was producing a whistling noise from a few months now and was bothering me since then. Initially I thought it was the auto chain tensioner which was the cause of this sound and I got it replaced. Yet this sound did not go away. Yesterday my bike was inspected by a mechanic from RE who inspects bikes which cannot be fixed by workshop mechanics. He got the RHS engine cover opened and one of the mechanics exclaimed that my bike had one of the two differently designed set of cams. This mechanic from RE said that this set of cams is there in some bikes and is prone to development of play and hence the development of noise.

Then, he got both the cams replaced with new ones which he said were of a different design and the sound was completely gone! Hope that it stays this way for a long long time.

Another guy told me that going by the books, the cams have to be adjusted for play after completion of first 500 kms but the workshops don't do it and the mechanics don't know how to do it.

Last edited by iron.head : 2nd December 2012 at 13:26.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 13:44   #2884
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Does fitting an aftermarket silencer increase NVH of the classic 500? I have a goldstar end can which gives great sound, but the engine racket is too much.

Vibration is so much that rear view mirrors are useless after 60 kmph.

Would fitting the stock long silencer reduce noise and vibrations? Also now that bike is run in, I am shifting at these speeds:

1st gear till 10 kmph
2nd gear till 30 kmph
3rd gear till 50 kmph
4th gear till 70 kmph
5th gear 70 kph onwards till 90 (my psychological limit)

Are these shift speeds ok?
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Old 3rd December 2012, 03:20   #2885
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

abeerbagul
The speeds you indicate are far below my shift points. I suppose there is nothing wrong with them unless you are opening the throttle wide to accelerate rapidly.
If you are trying to accelerate rapidly using those shift points, you are lugging the engine rather than letting its speed capability work for you.

My typical (not racing) shift points are:
1st gear to 15 mph (24 kmph)
2nd gear to 25 mph (40 kmph)
3rd gear to 33 mph (53 kmph)
4th gear to 45 mph (72 kmph)
5th gear 45 mph + (73 kmph +)

My normal riding speed is to mimic the traffic around me.
If there is no traffic around me I normally ride at about 48 mph (77 kmph) in town and 62 mph (100 kmph) on the highways.
I think the roads in the USA are a bit better than many of the roads in India and, except during "rush hour" when everyone is going to, or coming from work the traffic is lighter.
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Old 3rd December 2012, 11:44   #2886
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Hi ArizonaJim

My bike is 10 months old and I have done 7k kms on it. Do you recommend me to get the fork oil changed? I dont want to be left with leaky forks. Do you recommend changing all the fork oil seals when changing fork oil? What grade of oil would you recommend? 5W/10W/15W/20W
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Old 4th December 2012, 04:18   #2887
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Hi iron.head
When I changed the fork oil in my G5 (Electra Deluxe) at 11,500 km, the fluid was rather gray and opaque.
I am not sure what RE used in there but I'm sure it did not look like that when they poured it in.
Assuming for the moment that the gray opaque appearance was due to fine aluminum particles which had worn off of the inside of the tubes and recognizing that metallic particles can wear seals I have mixed emotions about whether to change them or not.

If you're riding the Electra Deluxe like my 500cc (or other Electras?), changing the fork oil is simply a matter of removing the two huge chrome screws at the top of the tubes and removing the cap at the bottom of each tube and letting the oil drain out.
When this is done, replacing the bottom cap (and copper washer), pouring in 190-200 ml of new oil thru the open tops of each tube and replacing the caps and your done.
Because there is no need for disassembling the forks on the Electra Deluxe, I see no need to replace the seals unless they are leaking.

The RE Classic models use a different front fork. I am not speaking of the new fork on the 2012 models and I know nothing about them. I am referring to the front forks on the 2009-2011 models.

Getting back to the Classic's forks, the oil cannot simply be replaced by removing the bottom and top caps. Removing the bottom cap will drain the fork but it is impossible to fill the fork thru the top (even though you removed the chrome cap) because the top is sealed.
The entire fork must be removed from the motorcycle and disassembled just to change the oil on these motorcycles.
Because this necessitates a major tear down I think it would be a good idea to replace the seals while the oil is being changed.

A word of warning about those aluminum tubes. Whatever type of aluminum they are cast from is, it is VERY brittle. Using the mouth of the aluminum tube to support a tool for prying on the seals has been known to break out major chunks of the tubes.
There is a special tool made to do this job and it is probably a good idea to beg/borrow/buy? one if at all possible.

Because of the amount of work needed to replace the fork oil on these models, if you choose to have a RE mechanic replace the fork oil on one of the Classic models, plan on spending quite a bit for the job. If the mechanic only wants a small payment for the work either they don't know what's involved or they plan on doing a poor job of it.

As for the viscosity of the oil, I know several people (including myself) who are happy with 10 weight. The Service manual recommends using a SAE 10-30 wt oil.

The riders style of riding and the road condition are the key drivers in selecting a fork oil.
A thin oil like 5wt will do a minimal amount of damping making a "soft" ride over moderately bumpy roads.
It will also allow the front wheel to move rapidly downward into pot holes in the pavement and although the wheels rebound will be faster than a heavier oil would allow, this, under severe cases can allow the wheel to become airborne. Thin, low viscosity fluids can also cause the front of the motorcycle to "dive" when the brakes are applied hard.

A thick or heavy viscosity oil like 30 wt can make a very harsh ride over small undulations in the roads surface.
It is less likely to allow the front wheel to drop rapidly into a pot hole (at speed) but there will be a more noticeable shock thru the frame of the motorcycle when the tire hits the far side of the hole.
Because the extension and compression of the fork is greatly dampened, it is less likely that the wheel will become airborne at speed.
There is also less tendency of the front of the bike to "dive" under heavy braking if the heavier oil is used.

Between these extremes the 10 and 15 weight oil usually gives the best compromise between the two extremes

At least that's my take on it and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 4th December 2012, 04:51   #2888
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

My edit time limit has expired so hopefully the moderators will allow me to add the following to the above post:

If you are in doubt about which model of fork your motorcycle has I suggest that you DO NOT drain the forks until you have removed the top chrome caps and tried pouring a bit of oil into the fork. If you can freely pour oil into the top of the fork tubes then go ahead and remove the drain caps and finish the job.
On the other hand, if the added oil just sits there in a pool without going down inside the actual fork tube you will need to disassemble the forks or take your motorcycle to a dealer to get the job done.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 4th December 2012 at 04:53.
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Old 4th December 2012, 11:25   #2889
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
abeerbagul
The speeds you indicate are far below my shift points. I suppose there is nothing wrong with them unless you are opening the throttle wide to accelerate rapidly.
If you are trying to accelerate rapidly using those shift points, you are lugging the engine rather than letting its speed capability work for you.

My typical (not racing) shift points are:
1st gear to 15 mph (24 kmph)
2nd gear to 25 mph (40 kmph)
3rd gear to 33 mph (53 kmph)
4th gear to 45 mph (72 kmph)
5th gear 45 mph + (73 kmph +)

My normal riding speed is to mimic the traffic around me.
If there is no traffic around me I normally ride at about 48 mph (77 kmph) in town and 62 mph (100 kmph) on the highways.
I think the roads in the USA are a bit better than many of the roads in India and, except during "rush hour" when everyone is going to, or coming from work the traffic is lighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abeerbagul View Post
Does fitting an aftermarket silencer increase NVH of the classic 500? I have a goldstar end can which gives great sound, but the engine racket is too much.

Vibration is so much that rear view mirrors are useless after 60 kmph.

Would fitting the stock long silencer reduce noise and vibrations? Also now that bike is run in, I am shifting at these speeds:

1st gear till 10 kmph
2nd gear till 30 kmph
3rd gear till 50 kmph
4th gear till 70 kmph
5th gear 70 kph onwards till 90 (my psychological limit)

Are these shift speeds ok?
My shift speeds for "normal" riding are similar to those mentioned by ArizonaJim. Looking at your shift speeds, I'd say you could shift to second and third a little later than you are now.
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Old 4th December 2012, 19:22   #2890
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Hi,
I gave my bike for its third free service this morning. One of the issues that I hoped to get sorted was the ticking auto-decomp sound when my bike was idlling. I've read somewhere in this thread that the issue can be sorted by tightening or loosening a screw associated with the auto decomp. So, I told this to the head mechanic, and he said that that screw cannot be adjusted. Anyway, I went to pick up my bike from the service center this evening, and when I started my bike, I noticed that the ticking sound was still there, and to add to it, the bike's idling speed seemed to be varying. The mechanics asked me to leave my bike there for another day so they could figure out the issue. Any ideas/suggestions on how this could be sorted or what I need to be doin? Also, a couple of mechanics have told me that the auto-decomp screw cannot be adjusted. Is that true?
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Old 4th December 2012, 20:43   #2891
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Sorry, i dont mean "screw" but im referring to the spring in the auto decomp. Can its tension be adjusted?
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Old 5th December 2012, 03:55   #2892
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Short of replacing the spring, there is no way of adjusting its tension.

I recall reading somewhere that the auto decompression cam is supposed to retract at engine speeds over 700 rpm. The normal idle speed for the 500cc UCE is about 1000 rpm which should be enough to deactivate the device.
It may be that the idle speed your motorcycles engine is running at is too low?
This could contribute to the computer varying the engine speed as well as the failure of the auto decompression to disengage.

I have noticed that if my motorcycle has set over night at temperatures below 4.4 degrees C (40 degrees F) the decompression cam will tend to hang up and remain engaged when the engine is first started. I attribute this to the 20-50wt oil I'm using.
Once started and reved slightly the clicking stops and does not return at these low temperatures.
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Old 5th December 2012, 08:11   #2893
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
Short of replacing the spring, there is no way of adjusting its tension.

I recall reading somewhere that the auto decompression cam is supposed to retract at engine speeds over 700 rpm. The normal idle speed for the 500cc UCE is about 1000 rpm which should be enough to deactivate the device.
It may be that the idle speed your motorcycles engine is running at is too low?
This could contribute to the computer varying the engine speed as well as the failure of the auto decompression to disengage.

I have noticed that if my motorcycle has set over night at temperatures below 4.4 degrees C (40 degrees F) the decompression cam will tend to hang up and remain engaged when the engine is first started. I attribute this to the 20-50wt oil I'm using.
Once started and reved slightly the clicking stops and does not return at these low temperatures.
Thanks, ArizonaJim.
Just going by ear, the idling speed when i first started the bike every morning seemed to be around the required 1000 rpm, but the ticking still persisted. I ride for about 70 kms everyday, so I noticed that once the engine got nice and hot after riding for about 20-30 kms, the ticking stopped. Is it possible that the autodecomp is disengaging at a higher engine speed than it has to?
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Old 5th December 2012, 13:44   #2894
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Hi Enfield_500,

I suggest that you increase the idle RPM a little. Not sure if this is a possibility in C5 (due to FI), but it is quite simple in 350's.
Do not go by the judgement (by ear), but rather ask the RE mechanic to set the idleing correct using RPM meter.
20 - 30 kms I think is a little too high for engine to stop making the typical tic-tic noise (Auto Decomp).

FYI - In my STD 350 UCE, the tic-tic noise stops after I run it on chock for around a minute or so.

Cheers and happy thumping!
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Old 5th December 2012, 15:48   #2895
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Hi All,

I need some help with my issue.After narrowing it down i can replicate the problem i'm facing. During Morning hours i start my bike using kick lever as ES doesnt have enough power from the battery to crank the engine. however if i ride it for 10 kms or so the battery gets charged and i can use ES there after without any issues.

However while returning back in the evening if i switch on the headlights and do speed varying between 20 to 50 kms. After hour or so the battery gets completely discharged.

Hence while returning back day before yesterday i switched off the headlights and depended on street lights to reach back home. next morning i cranked the engine with ES it works fine.[ I know i risked my safety by depending on street lights but i dint have any option to replicate the issue].

hence while taking it back to service station i switched on the head lights and the battery got completely drained. At service center they advised they battery is fine but its discharged. so they put the standby battery and charged my battery overnight and returned it next day. All was fine as i had to leave out of town was not using the bike.

Yesterday morning was the normal day. however it was raining heavily during evenings. my steady speed was 30 to 40 kms/hr and i rode it for 1 hr 30 mins. now before reaching home i stopped for grocery shopping and after i return i cranked the engine with ES and it doesnt work. battery has discharged.


Has anyone else faced this problem. how to get rid of this problem. please suggest. If take to service center they say battery is all fine. but if ride the bike with headlight on the battery discharges quickly.

please advise.
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