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Old 17th May 2013, 00:42   #3106
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

The lambda or Oxygen Sensor is secondary in compensating for a change in altitude.

The primary sensor is a MAP (Manifold Pressure Sensor) that is built into the throttle body.
Quoting from the Service Manual,
"The MAP provides instantaneous manifold pressure information to the ECU. This is necessary to calculate air density and determine the engine's air mass flow rate, which in turn is used to calculate the appropriate fuel flow to the engine thru the injector."

In the case of the exported Royal Enfields that do have a Lambda (Oxygen) sensor, it analyzes the exhaust gasses to varify the completeness of the fuel/air burn. If it senses incorrect combustion it feeds this information back to the ECU which then modifies the amount of fuel being injected.
This makes it a secondary check on the accuracy of the ECU's interpretation of the MAP data.
The Lambda (Oxygen) sensor is there primarily to minimize air pollution even at the expense of performance.

Although the RE's that are not exported do not have a Lambda (Oxygen) sensor, they all have the MAP sensor which does detect changes in altitude making manual adjustments while riding from low areas into the mountains unnecessary.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 17th May 2013 at 00:44.
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Old 18th May 2013, 17:04   #3107
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
The lambda or Oxygen Sensor is secondary in compensating for a change in altitude.

The primary sensor is a MAP (Manifold Pressure Sensor) that is built into the throttle body.
Quoting from the Service Manual,
"The MAP provides instantaneous manifold pressure information to the ECU. This is necessary to calculate air density and determine the engine's air mass flow rate, which in turn is used to calculate the appropriate fuel flow to the engine thru the injector."

In the case of the exported Royal Enfields that do have a Lambda (Oxygen) sensor, it analyzes the exhaust gasses to varify the completeness of the fuel/air burn. If it senses incorrect combustion it feeds this information back to the ECU which then modifies the amount of fuel being injected.
This makes it a secondary check on the accuracy of the ECU's interpretation of the MAP data.
The Lambda (Oxygen) sensor is there primarily to minimize air pollution even at the expense of performance.

Although the RE's that are not exported do not have a Lambda (Oxygen) sensor, they all have the MAP sensor which does detect changes in altitude making manual adjustments while riding from low areas into the mountains unnecessary.
please correct me if i am wrong.

my understanding was that the MAP sensor is there to gauge the changes in air-flow mass rate, and give information to compensate the fuel. Like if we use a free flow filter or a free flow exhaust, or both, the MAP would sense the increase in flow rate and ask ecu to increase the gas, regardless of altitude. Not sure if a MAP can sense changes in Oxygen level with change in altitude. And thats where O2 sensor played its part??
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Old 19th May 2013, 00:13   #3108
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

The percentages of oxygen and nitrogen (and other gasses) in the atmosphere is the same in the high mountains and at sea level. The air pressure is the variable.

You are correct in saying the MAP sensor gauges changes in the air-flow mass rate and this is exactly what changes as one gains altitude. At high elevations there is a great reduction in the mass of the air moving thru the throttle body because there is much less outside air pressure to force the air thru it.

The O2 sensor just measures the completeness of the air/fuel combustion, primarily to reduce the amount of unburned hydrocarbons.

IMO, it does this by looking for the presence of oxygen in the exhaust gas.
If a bit of oxygen is found, this is interpreteted to mean that all of the fuel has burned completely.
If no oxygen is found, the system assumes there is unburned or partially burned fuel present which not only adds to the hydrocarbon emissions but also signifies the presence of CO (carbon monoxide) emissions.
As I mentioned, this is primarily aimed at reducing air pollution. Not improving the output power of the engine.
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Old 19th May 2013, 13:30   #3109
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

So if a CL500 (without a lambda) is taken to say Khardungla, what do you suppose would happen in terms of the engine performance ?

I have taken my CL500 to the mountains here on 2 occasions and as soon as I reached the top the engine started having kind of hiccups. But I must admit my air filter was very dirty on both occasions due to a 100 Kms offroad ride.

Could you also throw some light on the effect of very cold temperature on the performance of the CL500 (without lambda).

Thanks in advance !
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Old 19th May 2013, 13:30   #3110
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Default Classic 500 on fully synthetic Motul 300V

Yesterday I changed to fully synthetic oil, Mobil 300V during service for the Classic 500. It is a huge expense, 2.5 litres at Rs 970 per litre. So bought 3 litres at Rs. 2910 :(
But ...
The bike is transformed into a super - bullet. Tik Tik noise has subsided, the response is smooth and zero vibes. In just one day, the engine has become revv happy. Earlier 3 gear at 50 kmph used to be unbearable, now it smoothly revs to 65 kmph on 3rd gear. 4th gear now goes smoothly upto 80 kmph.

This is the oil Royal Enfield should have put into Classic 500 from factory. But due to their penny pinching attitude, we have to bear with a high NVH and low revs.
This is the number one mod anyone can make to the bike, with immediate results.
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Old 19th May 2013, 13:35   #3111
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandkenkare View Post
So if a CL500 (without a lambda) is taken to say Khardungla, what do you suppose would happen in terms of the engine performance ?

I have taken my CL500 to the mountains here on 2 occasions and as soon as I reached the top the engine started having kind of hiccups. But I must admit my air filter was very dirty on both occasions due to a 100 Kms offroad ride.

Could you also throw some light on the effect of very cold temperature on the performance of the CL500 (without lambda).

Thanks in advance !
I read somewhere,that Current FI of our Indian CL5 was calibrated for high altitudes,i have taken it till 11000FT till date without any problems.
And used it when ambient temperature was less than 5 degrees,without any problems.
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Old 19th May 2013, 13:48   #3112
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

So the hiccups my bike was experiencing was probably due to the dirty air filter.
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Old 19th May 2013, 14:02   #3113
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandkenkare View Post
So the hiccups my bike was experiencing was probably due to the dirty air filter.
Yeah,that could have been an issue.
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Old 20th May 2013, 04:06   #3114
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandkenkare View Post
So if a CL500 (without a lambda) is taken to say Khardungla, what do you suppose would happen in terms of the engine performance ?
I cannot say.
At 18000 Ft elevation, the MAP reading may be outside the limits of the ECU's map (no pun intended).
Although some people do ride their Royal Enfields into extremely high locations I'm not sure the RE engineers would have established the correct fuel injector commands to run correctly at that altitude.
I would be happy to read the results anyone has with their FI RE at that height.
Quote:
I have taken my CL500 to the mountains here on 2 occasions and as soon as I reached the top the engine started having kind of hiccups. But I must admit my air filter was very dirty on both occasions due to a 100 Kms offroad ride.
I'm not sure about your engines hickups but I can say that any restriction of the air inlet such as a dirty air filter will be more noticable at high elevations.

I have ridden my 500cc G5 to Flagstaff, Arizona on two occasions so I can say what happened with my O2 equipped bike at 8000 ft elevation.

It ran fine but its power output was considerably diminished.
This was most noticeable while trying to go up long grades or when trying to accelerate to pass slower vehicles at 100 kmph.

The air pressure at 8000 feet elevation is 75.3kPa so it is 25 percent less than the air pressure at sea level. That easily drops the horsepower of the engine 25 percent basically reducing my bikes power from 28 hp to 21.

While speaking of pressure/horsepower, at 18000 feet elevation the air pressure is 55 percent less than the pressure at sea level. That would drop the 28 hp to about 12.5.
Quote:
Could you also throw some light on the effect of very cold temperature on the performance of the CL500 (without lambda).
Bear in mind that anything I say about the Royal Enfields without the lambda sensor is speculative because I don't own one of them.

I also live in Phoenix, Arizona where the coldest winter temperature seldom falls below 28 degrees F (-2.2 degrees C).

The coldest temperature I've started and ridden my motorcycle at was at about 32*F (0*C).
It was slow to crank with the electric starter and wouldn't fire on my first attempt. Then I remembered the enrichment lever on the handlebar so applying that, my next attempt was successful.
I gave it a nice long 2 minute warmup before riding it.

Temperature is another thing that's monotered by the ECU.
Right below the cylinder inlet port there is a thermostat that reads the temperature of the engine oil as it passes up to lubricate the rocker arms and valves.
Based on this oil temperature the ECU sets the air/fuel mixture ratio so it basically runs rich when the engine oil is cold.
Once the oil warms up the mixture is changed to a more economical (and more correct) 14:1 (air:fuel).
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Old 27th May 2013, 18:35   #3115
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

The new colour scheme on CL500 available from August I believe...


It has a certain class but I still think teal green is the best.
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Last edited by anandkenkare : 27th May 2013 at 18:36.
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Old 28th May 2013, 12:57   #3116
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

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Originally Posted by anandkenkare View Post
The new colour scheme on CL500 available from August I believe...
IMHO, it's not looking good at all. I agree the military color is one of the best colors for bullet apart from black which in my opinion is the best irrespective of the model.

This one looks like sprinkled with colors ( I have a funny analogy on this one, Cricket looks best in white clothed sportpersons but, IPL has made it colorful and overall visual appeal of the sport is not the same )
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Old 28th May 2013, 16:37   #3117
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Teal green is not the military colour. Its the one in the picture against my name.
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Old 28th May 2013, 16:51   #3118
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

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Originally Posted by anandkenkare View Post
The new colour scheme on CL500 available from August I believe...


It has a certain class but I still think teal green is the best.
Any sources or links for this info?
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Old 28th May 2013, 17:13   #3119
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

My source is the RE distributor for the middle east.
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Old 28th May 2013, 20:36   #3120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
I cannot say.
At 18000 Ft elevation, the MAP reading may be outside the limits of the ECU's map (no pun intended).
Although some people do ride their Royal Enfields into extremely high locations I'm not sure the RE engineers would have established the correct fuel injector commands to run correctly at that altitude.
I would be happy to read the results anyone has with their FI RE at that height.

Hi, I have been to Khardung la which stands at 5359 m /. 18380 ft on my FI RE classic 500 and to be honest I dint feel any change in performance whatsoever.

Could be because i was so mesmerized with the beauty of the region and dint notice the subtleties, Another reason I didn't feel any change could be attributed to my duration at that peak (60 minutes) and the low average speed of 20 km/hr maintained due to bad roads. But no engine performance issues experienced. It is by far the best engine from the RE stable.
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