Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd July 2013, 17:02   #3166
BHPian
 
nasirkaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 749
Thanked: 399 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
something which wears out a certain part and makes out some irritating noise"
Not sure if they are related but this sounds so much like the auto de-comp thingy.
nasirkaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2013, 17:52   #3167
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,082
Thanked: 222 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
Not sure if they are related but this sounds so much like the auto de-comp thingy.

Noise is from the head
Randhawa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2013, 02:39   #3168
BHPian
 
ArizonaJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, Ariz.
Posts: 988
Thanked: 1,854 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

It looks like the rocker arm is not contacting the end of the valve properly creating a localized region of high stress on one side only.
This could induce an imbalance in the valve stem raising the stress levels throughout the valve.

Course, I've been wrong before.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 4th July 2013 at 02:41.
ArizonaJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2013, 07:15   #3169
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,082
Thanked: 222 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
It looks like the rocker arm is not contacting the end of the valve properly creating a localized region of high stress on one side only.
This could induce an imbalance in the valve stem raising the stress levels throughout the valve.

Course, I've been wrong before.
Excellent , you are almost there. But the question is why it is not touching the way it should. What part is causing the mis-alignment and why?
Randhawa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2013, 10:55   #3170
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,942
Thanked: 3,174 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Valve stem cap.

But I thought the LB and the UCE valves did not have those.

I know these get worn out on my standard and need replacement.
ebonho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2013, 11:17   #3171
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,082
Thanked: 222 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Valve stem cap.

But I thought the LB and the UCE valves did not have those.

I know these get worn out on my standard and need replacement.
Yes you are right, they do not have valve caps.
Randhawa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2013, 12:14   #3172
BHPian
 
iron.head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 210
Thanked: 115 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Yes you are right, they do not have valve caps.
Randhawa bhai: mafi dedo!

My bike does not have the cam noise, auto decomp noise but that clicking noise from the head which has been extremely troubling me! It has increased bit by bit over time and I wish to get rid of it!

I have been replacing oil every 1-2k kms and cleaning air filter regularly and I am quite certain that my bike does not have any unusual piston noise.

I am quite certain that it is because of the faulty part you are talking about. It will be really great if you can help me get it fixed!

Thanks
Aditya
iron.head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2013, 13:45   #3173
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,082
Thanked: 222 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron.head View Post
Randhawa bhai: mafi dedo!

My bike does not have the cam noise, auto decomp noise but that clicking noise from the head which has been extremely troubling me! It has increased bit by bit over time and I wish to get rid of it!

I have been replacing oil every 1-2k kms and cleaning air filter regularly and I am quite certain that my bike does not have any unusual piston noise.

I am quite certain that it is because of the faulty part you are talking about. It will be really great if you can help me get it fixed!

Thanks
Aditya
Just get the rocker arm checked along with the rocker bearing for excessive play. Also stop changing oil that soon. Let the engine smooth out itself.

Your reference to the noise is different to what I am talking about.
Randhawa is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2013, 22:16   #3174
BHPian
 
iron.head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 210
Thanked: 115 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

@Randhawa bhai: please disclose the suspense. What part is it which you are telling about. I am going to get my bike inspected, so how do I ensure that this part is proper in my bike and if a replacement is needed or not.
iron.head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2013, 02:59   #3175
BHPian
 
ArizonaJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, Ariz.
Posts: 988
Thanked: 1,854 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Again, only a guess but the axes of the valve stem is cocked relative to the axis of the valve guide causing the end of the valve to be too far away from the axis the rocker arm pivots about.

The only four causes I can think of that could cause this condition:

1. The valve guide was machined improperly with the axis of its bore having excessive runout to the outside diameter of the guide, (its center is canted or tilted to the outside diameter of the guide).

2. There is excessive clearance between the valve stem and the internal diameter of the valve guide. This could be caused by a undersized valve stem or a oversized bore.

3. The diameter which the valve guide presses into in the head was machined at the wrong angle or was incorrectly located.

4. The valve stem is bent causing the end of the valve to be mislocated relative to the rocker arm.

I'll go with #3. A programming error in a NC machine could cause this to happen and it would be very difficult to detect.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 5th July 2013 at 03:14.
ArizonaJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2013, 13:14   #3176
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,082
Thanked: 222 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron.head View Post
@Randhawa bhai: please disclose the suspense. What part is it which you are telling about. I am going to get my bike inspected, so how do I ensure that this part is proper in my bike and if a replacement is needed or not.
Only a good mechanic can tell you if the parts are good. When you will get the rockers inspected just see if there is any play while the engine head is a bit warm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
Again, only a guess but the axes of the valve stem is cocked relative to the axis of the valve guide causing the end of the valve to be too far away from the axis the rocker arm pivots about.

The only four causes I can think of that could cause this condition:

1. The valve guide was machined improperly with the axis of its bore having excessive runout to the outside diameter of the guide, (its center is canted or tilted to the outside diameter of the guide).

2. There is excessive clearance between the valve stem and the internal diameter of the valve guide. This could be caused by a undersized valve stem or a oversized bore.

3. The diameter which the valve guide presses into in the head was machined at the wrong angle or was incorrectly located.

4. The valve stem is bent causing the end of the valve to be mislocated relative to the rocker arm.

I'll go with #3. A programming error in a NC machine could cause this to happen and it would be very difficult to detect.
Excellent The valve guide was machined improperly with the axis of its bore having excessive runout to the outside diameter of the guide, (its center is canted or tilted to the outside diameter of the guide).


Hence the culprit is the Valve Guide which was machined improperly. I feel it was machined incorrectly due to wrong machining process used. It was not centered properly.

What issues will it cause(misaligned valve guide bore with its outer dia);

1. It will wear out the valve stem.

2. Cause squeaky noise while turning off the engine.

3. You will hear a noise called valve clatter (basically valve is rattling inside the guide). It will take some time to develop this noise as valve stem will take some time to wear itself and guide bore.

4. Rocker arm tip which pushes the valve down will take a beating due to improper pressure applied to a reduced surface of the valve stem. Basically rocker arm will not push the valve stem in the middle but outer dia of the valve stem, pushing it sideways and rubbing against the guide bore.

5. Rocker bearing will develop play causing noises.

6. In long run (indicative 10k ) the valve seat and valve will get damaged due to the unequal stress between the valve seat and valve(see the picture for stress analysis).

7. Misfiring or hesitation will be the result from a leaky valve.



So in short a wrongly machined small part which should have been checked by the Quality head of RE if he was doing his job properly. This small thing gave me sleepless nights but thanks to them that I learned a lot.

Last edited by mobike008 : 5th July 2013 at 13:59. Reason: Merging back to back posts
Randhawa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2013, 22:51   #3177
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 70
Thanked: 6 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Can anybody throw some light on exhaust heat wraps on a RE 500 Classic (EFI); i did some reading and i heard issues like engine overheating, mis-balanced fuel/air mixture, EFI issues, rust etc.

Would experts in this forum advise a heat wrap on these motorcycles? not till the end though; but from the engine outlet point till the silencer. Pros and Cons would be helpful.

I am planning on installing a heat protective sticker under the gas tank as well; just to bring down a few degrees lower. I even have some wild ideas of heat wrapping the entire gas tank and the air box

But I fear that i might screw-up the looks of my Desert Storm.


Cheers
Invader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2013, 23:50   #3178
BHPian
 
ArizonaJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, Ariz.
Posts: 988
Thanked: 1,854 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

IMO, heat wrapping the exhaust is primarily a cosmetic thing.

There is some advantage to engine cooling as the air passing the exhaust pipe on its way toward the engines cylinder and cylinder head will not pick up the heat from the pipe. For the most part, this doesn't add much of a benefit.

Rust on the wrapped exhaust pipe will become an issue as the wrapping is not waterproof. On the other hand, no one will be able to see the rust.

Again, just my opinion but shielding the fuel tank from the engines heat is not worth considering. There is enough clearance between the engine and the fuel tank to minimize any heating that the hot engine may cause.
The fuel tank will pick up more heat from the sun on a clear day than it will from the engines heat.

Besides, except for a slight loss of fuel due to the hot fuels vaporization, hot fuel won't cause a problem. A much larger problem will be caused by allowing the bike to run out of fuel. The fuel serves as a coolant and lubricant for the electric fuel pump.

As for the cosmetics, I am not fond of a shiny chrome exhaust pipe on a military machine and the Desert Storm is supposed to represent one of these.
The color is supposed to camouflage the bike to make it hard for the enemy to see and a bright shiny chrome exhaust (or wheel rims) just won't do that.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 20th July 2013 at 23:52.
ArizonaJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2013, 12:15   #3179
Senior - BHPian
 
ebonho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,942
Thanked: 3,174 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
As for the cosmetics, I am not fond of a shiny chrome exhaust pipe on a military machine and the Desert Storm is supposed to represent one of these.
The color is supposed to camouflage the bike to make it hard for the enemy to see and a bright shiny chrome exhaust (or wheel rims) just won't do that.
The actual army bikes used by the Indian Army have the buffed aluminum and chromed parts painted. Usually olive green for the engine casings and silver for the exhaust and bend pipe. This as far as I can reall from my last visit to the factory in late 2004, is done direct from the factory. The factory also manufactures bikes for the police in yellow.

Name:  tF1080005.jpg
Views: 6065
Size:  159.4 KB
ebonho is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2013, 14:53   #3180
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 37
Thanked: 9 Times
Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
The actual army bikes used by the Indian Army have the buffed aluminum and chromed parts painted. Usually olive green for the engine casings and silver for the exhaust and bend pipe. This as far as I can reall from my last visit to the factory in late 2004, is done direct from the factory. The factory also manufactures bikes for the police in yellow.

Attachment 1115114
Thanks ebonho for the post. Nice to actually see the military green classics (are they classics with the single long seat?). And the yellow ones for the police are a r[COLOR=black][FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']evelation[/FONT][/COLOR]!

Cheers,
Manish
manishw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Royal Enfield Classic Chrome 500 - "The Chrome Decimator" xydon Motorbikes 17 9th February 2016 12:12
Enfield Bullet : Classic 350 versus Classic 500 zaks Motorbikes 173 1st June 2015 18:19
Royal Enfield Classic 350 / 500 - Now on Sale Puffdamgcdragon Motorbikes 1173 18th September 2012 17:31
Booked Royal Enfield Classic 500 but need help whether should wait for carb ketan4renault Motorbikes 12 29th June 2011 14:53


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 16:22.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks