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Old 9th July 2014, 10:50   #3586
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Exclamation Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Thanks to arizonajim and sgmitr13 for inputs. But heard bullet 500 card model with rpm at 3800 against 4000 rpm of classic 500 efi has a longer life, also efi has issues compared to carb model, along with maintenance. Kindly throw some light of pro,s and con,s of bullet 500 carb versus classic 500 efi.
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Old 9th July 2014, 11:03   #3587
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Also heard uce twinspark engine of RE has the same limited life of pulsar unlike the re older engines with better life.
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Old 9th July 2014, 11:13   #3588
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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
Of these, the Manifold Pressure Sensor is used to measure air density and mass flow thru the fuel injector body. This is the sensor that in an indirect way, measures the elevation the motorcycle is being ridden at.
The ECU uses this information along with the information from the other sensors to determine the fuel injection timing and duration and the spark advance to achieve the correct air/fuel ratio.
Yes Jim, you are absolutely right. I didnt know that at all! Thanks a lot
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Old 9th July 2014, 16:34   #3589
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

Hi all.

I am looking for a Windscreen/ windshield for my DS Royal Enfield 500.

Also side bags for the same! Moreover could you also recommend where could I get a sidecar :-)

Thanks in advance & Regards,
Harry
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Old 10th July 2014, 14:45   #3590
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man_of_steel

You are correct in reminding me that the fuel injected Indian models do not have an Oxygen sensor however, the O2 sensor is not used to regulate the air/fuel mixture to accommodate changes in elevation. It is used to fine tune the air/fuel ratio to minimize pollution (at the expense of some engine performance).

The Indian fuel injected models have a Throttle Position Sensor, a Manifold Pressure Sensor, a Engine Temperature Sensor and a Crankshaft Position Sensor and uses all of these to determine the best air/fuel ratio for the current riding situation.

Of these, the Manifold Pressure Sensor is used to measure air density and mass flow thru the fuel injector body. This is the sensor that in an indirect way, measures the elevation the motorcycle is being ridden at.
The ECU uses this information along with the information from the other sensors to determine the fuel injection timing and duration and the spark advance to achieve the correct air/fuel ratio.

Jim
How do we know if the manifold pressure sensor is faulty and where exactly is it located ?
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Old 10th July 2014, 14:47   #3591
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I personally, favor the fuel injected Royal Enfields.

They start easily. They rarely have problems of any kind.

They automatically correct the fuel/air ratio at any elevation between sea level and over 5000 meters so the mixture is always correct.

The problems first encountered with the fuel injection maps when they were first released to the public in 2009 were corrected years ago and no longer exist.

The ECU (Engine Control Unit) that controls the fuel mixture and ignition timing will tell you (or your mechanic) what the problem is if it due to any of the engine sensors, much like a modern automobiles ECU does.

The fuel injection is produced by Keihin, one of the largest producers of fuel injection units in the world and their reliability is widely recognized as among the best.
With regard to reliability and maintenance I too prefer the ECU engine.
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Old 10th July 2014, 22:54   #3592
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

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How do we know if the manifold pressure sensor is faulty and where exactly is it located ?
Looking at the throttle body from the right side of the motorcycle you will see the throttle cables wrapped around a pulley. The throttle plate which meters the amount of airflow to the engine rotates around the axis of this pulley.

Just above this on the top of the throttle body you will see a circular housing containing a diaphragm. This is about 24-25mm in diameter and has an electrical connector at the top. This is the Manifold Pressure Sensor.

It has a metal retainer which holds it in place and keeps it from rotating.
I believe there is some critical adjustments needed in the positioning of the MPS which explains why the metal retainer has a hexagon hole thru it, engaging the MPS.
I found no information about adjusting this part in the Service Manual but I recommend that its position should not be changed.

On the side of the throttle body, opposite the throttle pulley, the Throttle Position Sensor is located. This is basically a variable resistor which tells the ECU what your doing with the throttle.

The TPS has an electrical connector which the wiring harness plugs into.
It is adjustable so it can be calibrated to produce the correct voltage output.
Again, I do not recommend that you change its position as its voltage output has a direct bearing on the amount of fuel injected into the engine.
An incorrect adjustment of the TPS will cause the engine to run rich or lean, negatively affecting the fuel economy and life of the engine.

While I'm on a roll, the Crankshaft Position Sensor is located inside the right side engine case near the alternator. It is not adjustable. The wiring coming out of the top of the right side cover consists of this sensors output wires and the power out wires from the alternator. They plug into the main wiring harness behind the transmission.

The Engine Temperature Sensor is screwed into the cylinder head just under the intake port forward of the throttle body.
This location intersects a oil supply hole which delivers oil to the rocker arms so it is basically reading the engine oil temperature.

The outputs from all of these sensors are being constantly read by the ECU, not only to determine the correct settings for the ignition timing and fuel injection output, but to see if they are faulty.
This fault check is also preformed when you first turn on your ignition switch. That's one of the things the computer is doing while you wait for the engine check light (MIL) to stop blinking so you can start your motorcycle.

If a fault is discovered, the MIL will do one of two things rather than turn off.

If the ECU discovers a fault with the MAP, ETS or TPS, the MIL will continue to blink to warn you that a sensor is not working properly.
The engine will start and run but it may run poorly.
This will allow you to ride home or better yet, to a Service Center to find out what the problem is.

If the ECU discovers a fault with the ignition circuit, the fuel injection. the fuel pump, the crankshaft position sensor or the rollover sensor it will glow continuously. With a continuous glow, the engine will not run or start until the fault has been found and corrected.

If any of these fault indications are noted don't throw up your hands and scream.
The first thing to do is to check the electrical connectors to see if one of them has come loose. Give it a wiggle and push it into engagement with the sensor. More than a few times,this has fixed the problem.

Before I stop I should mention something about the throttle body.
Just behind the throttle cable pulley there is an adjustment screw with a hex nut on it. It looks like it could adjust the idle speed. The nut usually has a dab of yellow paint on it.
Do not loosen the nut or attempt to turn that screw.
If this screw is moved it will require resetting and only a good Service Center will be able to do this.

To adjust the idle speed, down in a hole on top of the throttle body you will see a very large, brass screw with a large screwdriver slot running across it.

This screw adjusts the airflow bypassing the throttle plate.
Turning it clockwise will decrease the engine idle speed.
Turning it counterclockwise will increase the engine idle speed.

The idle speed on these UCE engines should be about 1000 rpm. They really aren't happy just going thump, thump, thump... like the old iron barrels so don't overdo it with the adjustment.
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Old 11th July 2014, 09:33   #3593
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
Just behind the throttle cable pulley there is an adjustment screw with a hex nut on it. It looks like it could adjust the idle speed. The nut usually has a dab of yellow paint on it.
Do not loosen the nut or attempt to turn that screw.
If this screw is moved it will require resetting and only a good Service Center will be able to do this.
As per my knowledge even the ASC guys will not be able to do anything if this particular nut is tampered or adjusted(Atleast in India). I was there in a technical session with some RE personnels and they specifically told us that we should never touch/adjust or do whatever on that particular nut. In case if anyone trying to adjust the nut, the only solution as per him was to replace the whole of the throttle body. We were answered with a sheepish smile when we asked why such a crucial adjuster/bolt was standing there exposed!
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Old 18th July 2014, 09:34   #3594
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

My son's Classic 500 suffered from the first puncture today morning at home after about 20 k km in 2.5 years. Now, it needs fixing from the neighbourhood tyre repairer.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 13:54   #3595
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I am experiencing a strange problem in my 3 weeks old DesertStorm. Yesterday I did a 350kms trip from Mangalore to Bangalore. Before I began my journey I did check up the engine level which was on par with max level. Since it is still in its running period I was taking all necessary precautions and I was keeping an eye on the level throughout the journey but I couldnt see anything. However today morning I checked the level, still the level indicator didn`t reveal anything. I just got worried and poured some 200ml of oil and I could see the engine oil level hovering in the middle of max and min level.
I am just worried if I have damaged my engine. My first service is due this Friday, I will get this issue checked over there. But I want to know the expert comments on this.

Last edited by DragonHawk : 22nd July 2014 at 13:55. Reason: Added extra space.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 15:54   #3596
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

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However today morning I checked the level, still the level indicator didn`t reveal anything. I just got worried and poured some 200ml of oil and I could see the engine oil level hovering in the middle of max and min level.
I am just worried if I have damaged my engine. My first service is due this Friday, I will get this issue checked over there. But I want to know the expert comments on this.

Did you check the oil level without turning on the engine?? If you have, drain the excess oil you have poured immediately.

The correct procedure for checking oil level is mentioned in your owner's manual.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 21:34   #3597
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

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Originally Posted by man_of_steel View Post
Did you check the oil level without turning on the engine?? If you have, drain the excess oil you have poured immediately.

The correct procedure for checking oil level is mentioned in your owner's manual.
Thanks man_of_steel!

I have verified by warming up the engine and I did go through owner`s manual, I see no difference in the procedure followed. To add to my observation I didn't see any oil stains neither on the ground nor in the engine block.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 21:55   #3598
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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
I have the C-500 Chrome. Initially, even I used to be confused about this situation. However, the light blinking on and off is not an indication of any electrical fault but, just an early warning that your bike's fuel is near completion.

As a thumb rule, i fill up within a few kms from the time the fuel warning light starts flickering.

At this stage, I get around 9 Litres of petrol

Till date, i never crossed 9.75 Litres of fill in one-go. Worry of getting stuck on road without petrol is primary reason for my early fills

Using above method as refill, I am getting a consisten FE of 27kmpl in city conditions.

P.S: Btw, do you also own a Cruze???
RE trying to get those lights working is nothing new. The neutral indicator in my 2005 Electra 4S had the same issue. Flickering.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 23:14   #3599
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

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Originally Posted by DragonHawk View Post
Thanks man_of_steel!

I have verified by warming up the engine and I did go through owner`s manual, I see no difference in the procedure followed. To add to my observation I didn't see any oil stains neither on the ground nor in the engine block.
As your engine oil level was good up until the last time you checked it, here's what I believe happened. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

When you parked the motorcycle just before noticing the oil level was low, you used the sidestand while dismounting.
You then put the motorcycle up on the center stand and checked the oil level sight glass. No oil was visible so you added more oil to the engine.

By using the sidestand when dismounting a UCE powered Royal Enfield, much of the oil in the oil reserve will move to the left side engine cover where the clutch and primary drive chain are located.
When you then place the motorcycle on the centerstand, most of the oil in the left sidecover will return to the oil reserve but a significant amount will remain behind. This will cause the oil level to appear to be low.

If this is the case, your problem stems from the fact that you did not restart the engine while the motorcycle was on the center stand.

The correct (and only) way to check the oil level is to first make sure the ground the motorcycle is parked on is level. If the motorcycle is tipped even the slightest to one side or the other, the reading will be inaccurate.

Placing the motorcycle on the center stand is the only way to get a good oil level reading.

After placing the motorcycle on the centerstand, you MUST START the engine and let it run for at least 1/2 minute. This will allow the engine to pump the oil in the left sidecover back into the oil reserve.

Then shut the engine off and wait at least 1/2 minute to allow the oil to drain out of the upper areas, back to the oil reserve.
Then, and only then, you can read the oil level in the sight window to get an accurate reading.

As for the 200 ml of excess oil your engine now has, that much overfill probably will not cause any harm.
The worst case damage that will be caused by overfilling the engine by that small amount is that some of the excess will be blown out of the crankcase ventilator into the air filter box and if you have ridden the motorcycle after adding the excess oil, the damage is already done so draining out the excess oil will not keep it from happening.

The damage, if it has happened will be done to the air filter.
Excess oil blown into the air filter box can coat the paper filter and block off some of the air that passes thru it.
If this has happened, plan on buying a replacement air filter.

Many people have difficulty getting a good reading from the oil level sight window because they didn't follow the instructions I gave above but here's some words of advice:

If the oil level, when checked in the proper manor is good and at some later date it appears to be low, look for a major oil leak.
If none is found and the engine is not spewing out a large blue cloud of smoke while it is running you can safely assume the oil level is fine.
If this happens, do not add additional oil.

If the engine does indeed have a dangerously low oil level you will know instantly when the engine is started.

The engine uses hydraulic valve lifters so valve adjustment is not needed.
If these hydraulic valve lifters do not get the proper oil pressure they will clatter so loudly you will think the engine is about to explode. The noise is so great, only a madman would allow it to continue to run.
The moral of this story is, as long as you don't hear clattering that sounds like a rock band drummer going crazy with his drum set, there is no need to worry.

Ride safe.
Jim
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Old 23rd July 2014, 08:39   #3600
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Default Re: The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!

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The moral of this story is, as long as you don't hear clattering that sounds like a rock band drummer going crazy with his drum set, there is no need to worry.

Ride safe.
Jim
Thanks Jim!! As always it is a pleasure to read your detailed explanation.
AFAIK you may be right in diagnosing the issue here. Even I was wondering, with no oil stains and no clattering sound there is no way engine oil level should be low. But out of our fear of damaging the engine I had to pour in excess oil. .
Let me check the air filter for any possible damage, if so I will replace it during my service.
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