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Old 9th July 2010, 18:57   #421
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Another question, do you feel any handling issues with the spring loaded seats? I myself am not too satisfied with my vintage looking spring loaded ones, and am thinking of going for the Electra one.
Personally, i feel the spring seat works well in city condition where every km of riding means negotiating 10 speed breakers.

But on the highway, where average speed is much higher, and so are the distances, i find the stock seat of my machismo much better. The spring seats of C5 does not feel sturdy when seated for long. Feels more like the rear is floating in the air.
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Old 9th July 2010, 22:17   #422
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@Nasir-I looked at your picture and the first thing came to my mind was the uncomfortable hight angle at the back of the seat. That must be hard on your family jewels

Just a suggestion, if you lower the springs by cutting the height of the springs then it makes more sense by raising the back but a bit. That will avoid the sliding action and less painful ride.
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Old 9th July 2010, 22:32   #423
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@ Randhawa:

you are right. the steep angle was a bit too much, pushing the rider towards the tank. Not sure if we can cut the spring to make it small, as it would be really difficult to shape the end to suit the mounting.


So today, i removed the rexine cover, mounted the seat on the bike, and reshaped it myself. The result is much better than the first attempt.


Do have a look at the attached PDF for todays work.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf C5 seat mofification 2nd attempt.pdf (920.4 KB, 1370 views)
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Old 10th July 2010, 12:17   #424
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Since changing my exhaust to upswept, I finally got a chance to test the bike's performance today. Honestly I found this change quite disappointing as the dynamics of the bike have changed completely. The only thing I liked about this new pipe was the sound. Otherwise in my opinion it has done no good to the motorcycle.

Earlier my bike would flow without a hint of vibrations right upto 120 kph with a pillion, however now the vibes creap in just around 100 kph. Its rear end, which remained stable at 120 kph, sways like Shakira's *** at 110 kph onwards. But above all the bike does not want to break the 120 kph barrier, though it could do a 140 kph on the bazooka OEM.

I seriously think that the ECU is unable to supply enough fuel to compensate for the free flowing exhaust (just as one would need to up jet for a free flow exhaust).

Has anyone had a similar experience ? Can I do something to correct the above issues. I'd like to hear from you guys, before putting back my bazooka again !!
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Old 10th July 2010, 14:10   #425
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@Nasir- To be honest, if you don't lower the springs then you will keep ending up with a curve on the seat no matter what you do. The only solution is to lower the springs. Don't get put off by the thought of cutting the springs. I rather suggest you to get a spare springs OEM or aftermarket to do the experimenting on. It's not that hard to do the chop, cut around two spirals and the end bit will need to be heated to get a vertical length. Then just a loop at the bottom to secure it to the mounting for the spring. Once you get the front tipping downward like in a thunderbird seat then you can raise the back with extra foam. Just remember that whatever you do to the foam, you should always keep the height of the back of the seat a tad bit lower from the front tip. In that case you will find it most comfortable and avoid sliding and hitting the front on breaking.

@Bradhey- I share the same experience as you had with the upswept Ex. Its the noise which makes you feel the engine is breathing freely but with hardly any improvement. I felt a bit improvement only at the top but negligible. I always achieve better top speed with the bazooka rather then the upswept.

One thing you can do is to either clean the air filter or get a new one then try the speed run. You can also try by removing the air filter and try it on a road where there is no dust flying so avoiding anything getting sucked in to the engine.

Some of my observation about the conditions when I had gone over 120 without much of hesitation.

It was really hot around 40 and very less humid.
It takes about 1/2 an hr and average speeds about 100 for the engine to start performing like a mean machine.
Not much of head/tail wind.
Smooth road
Clean and properly adjusted plugs

I have a thought that when running in hot and dry weather conditions, it performs brilliantly. I feel that the hydraulic lifters takes time to remove any slack, it happens when its really hot and the engine is given some beans for a while.

I did some googling on the hydraulic lifters and found out that when it gets the oil in its cavity and its really hot, it tends to make a better seal or pressure and opportunity to expand. Removing any slack and providing maximum lift for the valves. They are designed to remove any slack at all temperatures but unfortunately it does not always do so. Do you know that they are supposed to be adjusted as well.

I had a small experience about it as when I got the head tightened after 5K. Immediately after that I felt such an improvement in the pickup, I was able to do willies on the bike at that time.

Anyway here is the link Hydraulic Lifters

You can also try getting a K&N filter and see how it performs with the upswept. There is another option to go for the K&N cone filter which you should attach before the black rubber which goes to the throttle body rather then the directly to the throttle body. If you have the old design plastic splash guard in front of the rear fender then you have just the right spot to fit it.

I personally don't believe that ECU can not provide enough fuel but feel that it cannot provide correct mixture/timing at times when you need that extra push.
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Old 10th July 2010, 14:37   #426
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Thanks Randhawa. If the weather permits me, I'd like to do a test run in the same conditions with the regular silencer before trying any of the other solutions.

Meanwhile, I feel this may not be the case for a new or K&N filter, as I think its the limitation of fuel (and not air) that is hampering the top end performance of the bike.

And I fully agree with you, until you do not run the bike over 100 kph, its top end performance does not show. For e.g. on one trip on my C5 and my friend's TBTS, we were constantly doing 80-90 kph and on seeing an open road, decided to test the bikes against each other. To my surprise my C5 was reluctant to go beyond 110 straight away, but after it warmed up completely, the TBTS could only be seen in my rear view mirror !!
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Old 10th July 2010, 14:44   #427
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This one is for Nasirkaka:
Please go through this article before investing further time, efforts & money in your seat. Cruiser saddles - Accessories & Gear Review - Motorcycle Cruiser
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Old 10th July 2010, 15:40   #428
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@ Randhawa & bradhey:

Thanks guys. the link on the seat is very informative. As we experiment, we fail, we learn a bit, and improve.

Am planning a full fledged seat design right from scratch, this time with proper research on the science and art of motorcycle seat. lets see, how it goes.

Can any one suggest where to get various types of foam, and GEL PAD used in motorcycle seating, prefebly around Bangalore??

Here is a link to some more info on seat.

Modify Seat
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Old 11th July 2010, 14:07   #429
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Default My C5 Experience

Hi Everybody,

As a new joinee to this forum, I must say that this is the best thread I have come across on the C5. Thanks to Team BHP for ensuring the quality of the posts. I’ve been reading all the posts in this thread for the past week. It has all the potential to distill onto a “C5 Service Manual”! Even more admirable is Randhawa’s deep insights and meticulous details on the innards of the C5 and its working.

Randhawa - you probably would have earned a Ph.D. by now, if RE granted one! ;-) Thanks for starting this thread and your posts.

Now onto the C5 and a quick into. I got my C5 a week ago (3rd Jul.), after a full 7 months wait (booked 1st Jan. 10). The wait was well worth it though. The feeling of straddling and driving the C5 from the showroom back home was exhilarating.… as I’m sure it would have been with everyone on here. I used to own a RD 350 a long time back (11+ years ago) which was bought off an UP Police auction; it was white in color with “Police” painted on the fuel tank and had a blue/red police number plate! It was practically new and had only done about 6-7K Kms, as most of the time it was standing in the Police station! . I sold it when I moved to B’lore from Delhi and regret it. In all these years, I hadn’t driven a bike. So, you can imagine the feeling of getting on one after such a long gap. More so, this is the first time I’ve ever ridden an Enfield.
About me – I’m from Delhi and work for am IT co. Moved to B’lore in 2000.

Here are some of my experiences on the C5. Since she’s only a week old, can’t quote much for now, but here goes:

- Excellent throttle-response and pick-up. Obviously, due to the EFI and the partly due to the 500 cc engine.

- Surprisingly, the C5 doesn’t “feel heavy” at all, both when stationary (tilting, taking off/on the stand etc.) as well as while riding. From my RD experiences, I was expecting the C5 to be probably as heavy or probably a bit heavier as both these bikes weigh almost the same. Coupled with the throttle-response, the overall handling feels almost like a 150 cc bike. I’ve a medium built and had a nagging feeling up my mind on my ability to handle a C5 (I hadn’t taken a test ride). I’m extremely pleased that this handling experience has turned out the way it has!

- Replaced the bazooka with the upswept yesterday. The only reason I did this was for the looks, and not the thump. In terms of accentuating the C5’s retro looks the upswept does really make a difference! In terms of performance, an observation is that the throttle response has decreased a wee bit. Another observation is that the engine sometimes misses a beat which results in a small jerk while riding. These issues could be due to improper tuning w.r.t the upswept, but am not sure. It’s too early to conclude and will need to ride more to analyze. I did read a few posts on the performance issues w.r.t. the upswept. Will observe and correlate those and will post more on this later.

- It might be due to the fact that she's a done only about 200 km, but the handle bar vibrates lightly when one reaches the top-end of each gear, before shifting onto the next. These vibes transfers on to the hands & wrists causing minor discomfort and irritation. The rear-view mirror also vibrates and partly blurs out the rear-view. I guess this is due to the fact that engine is new and will smoothen out over time (probably after 2nd or 3rd service).

- The rider’s seat. Again, I haven’t driven much, but the comfort factor of the seat is okay; neither comfy nor uncomfy. Yesterday, I rode continuously for about a couple of hours (~ 45-50 kms) in the city but did not have back pain or any other major discomfort. I did observe a small issue. When the C5 traverses a pothole/ditch or an almost-vertically-inclined speed breaker (spread all over B'lore), there is a sharp prick from some part under the seat (probably the spring) which shoots up all the way from the waist to the lower back. It isn’t painful, but certainly a discomfort. Not sure if this would result is some sort of back problems over time? But then, hey…. this is supposed to be a replica of the post-war Enfields. Along with the looks, it should also have some of the riding “effects” of that era, for one to get an “authentic retro experience” !!

- There was an issue with the tail light. The spring which connects the brake pedal and the light switch (slightly above and behind the brake pedal) is misaligned. This caused the tail light to remain on even after the foot is removed from the pedal. The guy at the workshop adjusted it yesterday, but today morning this issue creeped up again. I adjusted it myself today morning and it seems okay for now, but will continue observing.

- Got the registration number a few days back and will get reg. plates tomorrow. They are the embossed type, with a clear and crisp font and a reflecting white background - which are what I especially liked compared to the other embossed plates. The guy at JC Rd. shop told me this particular type gets manufactured in Coimbatore and so takes a few days to get delivered.

- On the way back through the jammed B’lore roads on the delivery day, she got “kissed” by an auto while waiting at the traffic light. I thought the tail light cracked, but luckily it didn’t.

- Drove though light showers yesterday, which was a delight. Did not experience any rear tire skidding effects, deliberately driving through some water puddles on the road at around 30-40 Kmph.

- Spoke to RE for a C5 Service Manual (note: this is not the C5 Owner’s Manual which comes along with the bike). They are working on it to get one for me. Also plan to buy the Pete Snidal’s UCE Manual (The Pete Snidal UCE Bullet Manual). It’s not yet available in India though. The idea is to self-service the C5 to whatever extent I can.

- The staff at Teknik Motors, where I bought the C5 from, has been courteous, helpful and friendly – so far! ;-)


A question:

- I had read some of the posts on the rusting issue. Has anyone found a solution to prevent this? I inquired with the guy at the workshop and he has suggested a Teflon coating. Not sure is this is resolves the issue though and if it affects the looks of the bike. Any pointers would be really helpful?


Overall, it has been a incredibly delightful experience riding the C5 and also to be back to the biking fraternity. I’m glad I came across this thread. Do look forward to learning from the experiences & insights from all the C5/C3-ians on here, as well as contributing whatever possibly I can.


Cheers…

Anurag
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Old 11th July 2010, 22:06   #430
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@Anurag- Welcome to our awesome forum, on here we like to share and learn technical and non technical things. Hope you have a nice time on here.

Thanks for your sweet comments

Now back to our C5 story.

Yes its a nimble bike on 18's and I love the way it handles up to 100.

The hick up felt is normal and and it will stay that way. Nothing to do with tuning but sometimes its due to the slack in Throttle cable or idling to low. But the hick ups will reduce after 500km and please try not to squeeze the throttle at all until 500km by all means.

The rear view mirror will vibrate at around 60km/hr and then 90km/hr all the way to top end. Nothing you can do about it. It will reduce a bit though which you are feeling at every gear change.

Regarding the seat issues, well I can assure you that it will not harm you on short runs and it may take a month or so to get used to the sweet pain you will get sometimes on back. You will hit the discomfort red line after continues 45min or 1hr of riding on a long stretch. Then you might want to hit the panic button. Although its from my experience and some others.

The best performance you will get is with bazooka and not with the upswept unless you change to cone filter otherwise you will not benefit from upswept apart from the loud noise. Personally I cant have the upswept on for more then a week(too loud for me). Oh and by the way if you get the popping noise from the upswept then don't worry at all. Its normal and nothing you can do about it. No solutions for it due to the waisted spark on exhaust stroke. Yes the plugs fire's twice in a complete 4 stroke. I dont know why they designed it that way, why do we need a spark on exhaust stroke is beyond my technical common sense.

Regarding the Manual you are talking about it. I was after them(4 months ago) like a hound to get one and they kept giving me excuses and they indirectly told me the reason for not giving us one and I left them alone since then. They know lads in India are getting more aware or interested to know inside out of the engine which they are not to happy with. Just think how many C5 owners have shot emails regarding O2 and still they have no intentions to have one on DM C5"s. I got it from abroad anyway.

According to RE as they say they are working on it alongside other's issues and still not a single improvement in any field in 8 months. Apart from the oil filter cover modification only after the American showed them how it can be improved.

On my C5, the oil cover from inside has few parts and not joined together which is a bit tricky to put on. Your's is a single piece oil filter cover, so really easy to do self service without messing with the filter and leaving any doubt of oil bypassing the filter. Yes it can happen if the internals of oil filter cap are not placed properly but thats for us older C5 owners only. You are lucky, at least you got one improvement plus the improved chain guard and full tool kit for which I had to pester them. I got lucky and got two complete tool kit's. Thank you RE.


For the rust, teflon will not help because the rust will appear only where there are welding joints and for that, you could get the paint made and use a very fine paint brush to do some touchup where you see some hidden holes in the weld or missing paint on the chassis.

Few places where you will definitely get rust is on the side stand, when you will look at it you will know where I meant. Other place will be the under the pipe where the rear seat is secured under the front seat. Apart from that you can just use any oil to brush it on any rusting area to protect it from spreading further.

Just for the body work protection, you can use teflon as thats what I have been using for a while. I just love it. I am using blue diamond teflon which is being imported from America and it's sold in loose. I pay Rs 150 for 100gm. Very easy to apply, once dried then just wipe it off. I hear stories of teflon damaging paint which is ridiculous to say the least. Although be careful of companies selling teflon like products which are to say nothing close to teflon.

RE workshops across India do a cheap waxpol polish on the new bikes before delivery and say they have teflon coated the bike for free. Just rubbish practice to make customers happy.

Last edited by Randhawa : 11th July 2010 at 22:14.
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Old 11th July 2010, 22:20   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Yes the plugs fire's twice in a complete 4 stroke. I dont know why they designed it that way, why do we need a spark on exhaust stroke is beyond my technical common sense.
to explain in common terms: its much simpler and easier to design the ignition system where the pulsar senses the tdc (irrespective of exhaust or compression stroke) at each 360 deg rotation of the crank and sends a signal to fire the plug. designing an alternate system that alternates the signal is more complex, costly and superfluous. mind you, it does not mean that this current setup is cheap, old and outdated. its just that its a waste to focus any resources on this particular aspect.

actually if you do a bit of research, you will be surprised as to how many modern single cylinder engines have similar firing patterns.
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Old 11th July 2010, 23:34   #432
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Great colour and awesome bike.

The thread is awesome, its like getting an education
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Old 11th July 2010, 23:40   #433
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@Surya- you might be surprised to know that on C5, the pulsar coil sends signal at every 15° where as on UCE350, it gets at every 360°. Maybe its something to do with the ECU for getting a more accurate signal but still a waisted spark if the ECU is already controlling the timing and firing at every 180° when its getting the signal at every 15°.

Agree with rest of your statement.
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Old 12th July 2010, 13:40   #434
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By this theory, why does not the C5 pop with the Bazooka on it, when all other variables remain the same ? Kindly explain.
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Old 12th July 2010, 19:58   #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradhey View Post
By this theory, why does not the C5 pop with the Bazooka on it, when all other variables remain the same ? Kindly explain.
Perhaps the long bazoooka reduces the POP sound to just a little pup which you cannot hear, by the time it comes out of it ?
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