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Old 12th August 2010, 22:09   #511
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Hey Randhawa,

I think i messed up. Here is the estory.

After sending my last post, i went down to install the single of the horn pair.

I had got the wiring done for the realy in the evening, at a battery service station. I did not have the hella horns with me.

SO after installing the relay and the wiring for the same, i put the single OEM horn, and returned home. another pair of wires from the real were taped individually and secured to the bike's frame.

At home, i removed the OEM horn and plugged the hella horn ( just the low frequency one). Switched on the ignition, (without starting the bike), and pressed the horn button to check if hella was working fine. It did work.

Than i switched-off the ignition and fixed the hella to the frame with the help of a L clamp. made the connections again. Started the bike and pressed the horn switch. NO SOUND. tried a couple of times but same result. was puzzled. All was fine just a minute back when i held the horn in the hand to test, but after securing the horn to the frame, no sound.

However, there was a faint "tak" sound coming from the Relay when the horn switch was pressed. Did check the connection for any loose ends, but all seemed fine. Than i unplugged the wires from the hella and tried with the OEM horn. still no sound.

My conclusion was the Realy koncked off some how. Just to confirm that i took the OEM horn and touched the two contact points directly to the two of the three Relay connectors (the input ones), and tried the horn. There was sound and there was small spark. Than all the electricals went kaput. After some sweaty moments, finally figured out the new fuse. checked them one my one, and daw the third one from right blown. Removed the fuse from the extreme left, and replaced it with the blown fuse. the electricals came back and the bike started. However the horn is still not working. did not fiddle further, planning to take her to mechanic tomorrow.

What do you make of the case? did i goof up somewhere?

Dont remember the make of the realy. will have to go down and check. The connected were not made fron the battery. the input to the Relay were the the two wires which went in to the OEM horn. The edges were chopped and those two wires were fed in to the Relay.

Will have a disturbed sleep tonight. :(

Last edited by nasirkaka : 12th August 2010 at 22:11.
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Old 12th August 2010, 23:58   #512
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Ok, here is what I think and try to make sense as I am half asleep(not slept for last 48hrs)

First of all, your electrician is an Idiot for using booth the black/red, black/blue wires of horn directly to relay. As I mentioned earlier the horn wiring is not made to cope up with the 10amp demand but only 2.5amp. You got a blown fuse because the horn is directly connected to the ignition switch and rectifier supply and you overpowered it.

In short your electrician goofed up and you too. For your oem horn, if you plug into the wiring loom without the relay then it should work with some tweaking with a screwdriver on the horn(there is a adjustment screw on it) Some times when the battery is week or down on current then the horn will work but the moment you are running again or raising the rpm, the horn will stop working again and do the click kind of sound. Most probably you drained your batt and the horn worked but then the batt got charged and it didn't worked. It happens as we have a very crappy minda horn.

When you get a set of paired horn(high+low frequency) they not always work separately. Is the relay you have a 3point or 4point relay? He should have taken a +ve from the battery with a 10 amp fuse. Did he used a separate wire for earth?
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Old 13th August 2010, 11:24   #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Ok, here is what I think and try to make sense as I am half asleep(not slept for last 48hrs)

First of all, your electrician is an Idiot for using booth the black/red, black/blue wires of horn directly to relay. As I mentioned earlier the horn wiring is not made to cope up with the 10amp demand but only 2.5amp. You got a blown fuse because the horn is directly connected to the ignition switch and rectifier supply and you overpowered it.

In short your electrician goofed up and you too. For your oem horn, if you plug into the wiring loom without the relay then it should work with some tweaking with a screwdriver on the horn(there is a adjustment screw on it) Some times when the battery is week or down on current then the horn will work but the moment you are running again or raising the rpm, the horn will stop working again and do the click kind of sound. Most probably you drained your batt and the horn worked but then the batt got charged and it didn't worked. It happens as we have a very crappy minda horn.

When you get a set of paired horn(high+low frequency) they not always work separately. Is the relay you have a 3point or 4point relay? He should have taken a +ve from the battery with a 10 amp fuse. Did he used a separate wire for earth?
Adding my 2 cents here, even you know it won't harm anything

Relay is just another switch. (I prefer the mechanical relay over electrical relay.)
This is how you should wire a relay.
Your relay has for Pins.
+ve wire from battery goes to relay directly (Input). The two wires that are connected to your OEM horn goes to relay again for Relay on/off(Input). Now that last pin that is remaining is the output pin of relay. You take two wires from this pin which is a DC +ve and connect to +ve of your horns.
Now you will have to ground the horns. Take a small wire and connect it to each horn and ground it to near by nut bolt. That's all.

Now when you press the horn button, it will flip the relay's internal switch to ON. Then relay will directly pass the current from battery to your horns and it will blow people's mind.

This way you have created your own relay circuit outside of your OEM circuit. I believe every horn guy follow the same method.
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Old 13th August 2010, 13:16   #514
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Nice explanation for the wiring Hemant. Here we dont know if Nasir had a 3 point or 4 point relay and his electrician did not get a direct feed from the battery. So things got messed up a bit.

Just a bit of info;
There are relays starting with 3pin to 6pin also with a option of single and dual switch, generally 3/4pin relays is the most common one of the lot.

Mechanical relay is the most commonly used relay in the automotive world.

Electronic relay is the one with a inbuilt circuit mostly used for AC, alternator, fuel pump. It has less chances of failure and noise free. less chances of getting damaged due to carbon, moisture and heat.

I prefer the electronic one over the mechanical.
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Old 13th August 2010, 17:11   #515
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Thanks Randhawa and hemanth.

I have a 3 pin relay.

The input into the Relay is from the wires used for OEM horn.

NO DIRECT CONNECTIONS FROM THE BATTERY ARE MADE IN TO THE RELAY.

( shall try and share a pic if possible)

UPDATE since morning.

I called up a friends mechanic, and he asked me to re-check the connections.

i re-installed the horn, made the connections, and voila! it worked.

the culprit was EARTHING, which was not completing the connection because of the paint on the frame. a bit of sanding, and it works now. (i am using only one of the pair- the low frequency one)

But the issue still remains. The inputs are not from the battery but from the wires used for OEM horn. So far, since morning, the horn and other electricals have been working fine. But if i continue, will it cause any problems? what should be done? do i get a 4 Pin Relay and re work the whole thing out?

Last edited by nasirkaka : 13th August 2010 at 17:14.
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Old 13th August 2010, 18:36   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
Thanks Randhawa and hemanth.

I have a 3 pin relay.

The input into the Relay is from the wires used for OEM horn.

NO DIRECT CONNECTIONS FROM THE BATTERY ARE MADE IN TO THE RELAY.

( shall try and share a pic if possible)

UPDATE since morning.

I called up a friends mechanic, and he asked me to re-check the connections.

i re-installed the horn, made the connections, and voila! it worked.

the culprit was EARTHING, which was not completing the connection because of the paint on the frame. a bit of sanding, and it works now. (i am using only one of the pair- the low frequency one)

But the issue still remains. The inputs are not from the battery but from the wires used for OEM horn. So far, since morning, the horn and other electricals have been working fine. But if i continue, will it cause any problems? what should be done? do i get a 4 Pin Relay and re work the whole thing out?
Please don't put 5Amp horn directly on your OEM warning. It might harm the circuit. Don't take this risk. The relay you put is of no use if you are not using power from battery. See if this relay has arrangement of taking hte input from battery, if not get a new one.
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Old 13th August 2010, 22:06   #517
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Thanks Hemanth,

shall check for the new Relay tomorrow, and get it repalced with correct wiring asap. Any specific make/ type of Relay you suggest?


@ Randhawa:

do have a look at the following w.r.t new air-filter box design. (actually just the hinge)

My new Royal Enfield Classic 500 EFi !! - Page 99 - India Travel Forum, BCMTouring
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Old 13th August 2010, 22:37   #518
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@Nasir- Please get a 4 pin relay and redo the wiring . My personal opinion is not to use any extra horn on the oem wiring.


Update on the Ammeter mounting fabrication

I got the casing made out of aluminum today and it turned out quite nice. After doing a mock fit, I didn't like the way it looked.
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It was looking a bit weird (pipe of Popeye the sailor man)as it was sitting a bit high to the level of the console and sticking out . Played around a bit for the right position and finally found the sweet spot to fix it rather then fixing it on the handle.

Will update after I install it finally.
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Old 13th August 2010, 23:15   #519
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@Nasir- Hey thats a good news I was told a month ago about the new design and they were planning to implement it soon. I had kind of ignored it completely as I was quite happy with the tape on the hinge. I keep checking for the updated swing arm on new c5's but totally forgot to check the air filter box. I am going to pester RE to give me one now

Hey convey my thanks to Bharat and tell him not to thank me but pass on my thanks to all who have shared, talked and raised the issue with RE and helped spread the word among RE community. I think they should get on with the swing arm now!

But I am not liking it 100%. It still has room for improvement and one thing I am not liking is the missing springs on the hinge. The one in older design helped the lids to stay tight by removing any slack which you get after some time when the rubber seal starts thinning up and the lock loosen up a bit. Springs also helped the lid not to rattle.


By the way, get the Mico relay for the horns and a fuse of 12 or 15amp for the +ve feed to the relay.

Last edited by Randhawa : 13th August 2010 at 23:17.
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Old 14th August 2010, 12:09   #520
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@Sanjeet

Looks like a pressure cooker.
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Old 14th August 2010, 14:27   #521
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You are so cruel but never mind but once i am done with it then it will look far better
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Old 14th August 2010, 19:23   #522
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@ Hemanth & Randhawa,

Thanks for your inputs. Sorted out the Relay Issues, as per your suggestion today.

Bought a Minda 4 Pin relay. (search for bosch/mico in a few shops but did not get it, Minda was closest to a known brand)

Got the wiring re-worked. As suggest, a 12 V direct from the +ve of the battery. The electrician (battery shp guy), was reluctant to use a FUSE in the wire drawn from the battery. He said that he is fixed so many bikes without the fuse. I insisted on the fuse, and he said get me one..
Thankfully i remembered the fuse holder in my machismo and there was a RE service station nearby. bought the fuse holder with 15 amp fuse, and got it fixed to the wire going from battery to the relay. All connections made, and the horn is working fine.

One minor issue. beacuse of wire limitation the placement of the Relay is such that in rain, the 4 pin on the relay may get wet (the 4 pins are facing upwards). Will that cause any short circuit/ blown fuse? I have taped the connectors with an electricians tape, but dont think the taping is waterproof. any suggestions?

Also the CLIP Type Fuse used in the C5 is not easily available. I checked two RE service stations but they did not have. I have blown 2 and just one spare is left. How do i get them. Some one mentioned that similar fuse is used in fiero, and sumo. Any inputs?

UPDATE on the SEAT.

Got a totally new seat plate done without springs. The plate was made very crudely and not to my satisfaction. ( i just gave measurements, could not supervise the making process, hence the measurements and finishing were disappointing? However, with the foam and cover, its looks ok on the bike. Comfort wise, better then the two earlier efforts. Also, i have searched and talked to a sheet metal fabricator. Planning to redo the whole of base plate again with him, under my supervision. (make template in Styrofoam/cardboard, before proceeding to metal). No hurry on that one, as my current seat state is much better than the stock. (but there is decent scope of improvement still left)

Shall share some pics of the same soon. Going for a 300+ km ride tomorrow. Will get the actual result of the modified seat after that.

Last edited by nasirkaka : 14th August 2010 at 19:26.
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Old 14th August 2010, 20:12   #523
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So when are you sending me your original seat?

Looking forward to pics and a review. I am terribly disappointed with my seat.

@Randhawa
Might have found slime. Will call you when I go to buy it.
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Old 14th August 2010, 20:42   #524
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@Nasir- good that you have listen to our request for adding up a fuse. We have lot of electrical's on our C5 so we do not have the liberty to add anything without a fuse, it works for other bikes without a fuse but might not work for us. Anyways the hesitation of your electrician has proved the real reason for not fitting one. Simply he did not bothered because he did not had the fuse so he asked you to get one.

Regarding the fuses, the are the same size as on any car. You can get it from any auto electrical shop.

To water proof the relay, use araldite on the crevasses of the relay and it should save it from water. But why is it installed upside down?

Put some pictures up of your seat yarr.


@Achint- Hey come on you made me wait that long for slime. By the way I need some addresses for the tyre shops in Delhi(popular ones) where I can have options and quality to choose from. Which one is the most famous places for bike spares? I am also looking for a rear disc setup from Pulsar 220 so any spare parts shops around? I guess mayapuri is only for 4wheelers but what about two wheelers market?
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Old 14th August 2010, 20:53   #525
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Got my C5 on the 2nd and 2 weeks in, there are already a couple of issues.

1. The starter has stopped working. It spins and makes a different sound than before, but I don't think it is turning the motor at all.

I had expected there to be starter issues and from day 1, only used the ES 1st thing in the morning (and only because the manual says so). Didn't realise it would die out so quickly though inspite of this.

Luckily the bike is rather simple to kick. Really happy they decided to include the kicker in the Indian version.

2. Definite issue with either my alternator, r&r or battery. Whenever I ride with my lights on and slow down to come to a stop, my lights dim and the engine then dies. When I'm idling and i quickly turn on my lights, the engine dies. Everything works fine as long as the lights are off. And even with the lights on as long as i'm moving with some decent speed. The moment it comes to bumper to bumper traffic, things go weird, sudden loss of power (as if the engine missed a spark), and the eventual cut off.

A friend who got the bike 3 months earlier also had a defective battery from the get go, and is still waiting on a replacement from the dealer.

My first service is still a week away (15 days advance booking for service is ridiculous) but I know that they wont have replacement parts for the starter, nor a replacement battery for the next few months.

I was wondering if there were any alternative aftermarket motorcycle batteries in India which can provide at least the 14AH of the stock battery. I see people on the US forums talking about Yuasa's maintenance free batteries. I know Yuasa is sold in India under the Rocket brand, but I have only seen UPS batteries. Any clue if they sell motorcycle batteries? Any recommendations are welcome, and price is no bar if it assures a quality product with a proper local warranty.
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