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Old 14th August 2010, 21:55   #526
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@Greasemonk-Congrats on getting your bull.

Ah man not nice to have the sprag go on you and then we have the Yanks telling us that they have heard of only two sprag failure on C5's till now. Your dealer will have a new sprag for sure, just ask him nicely or pester your local service engineer.

I have heard few Exide battery failures till now and most of them are bad at starting. I hope its the battery and not the R&R. I am quite sure its not your alternator, otherwise your battery would have been totally dead by now. Because of these scary moments I am putting up the ammeter on my bike.

Just get the electrical problem checked first or if you have the volt meter to check the charging then here is what you should expect;

Fully charged batt volt 12 to 13.2V & fully discharged 10.8

Specific gravity filly charged 1.24
Requires charging 1.15

To check RR
Start and accelerate upto 3000RPM
Volt should be 12.2 to 13.5V

with light on when charging at 3000rpm
13 to 14.5v

Here is a link for Yuasa battery Batteries - BACHOO MOTOR & CYCLE COMPANY you can get in India but a bit pricey. I think you need is the YTX14-BS. Although not sure if its the right size, here are the dimensions -151mm x 87mm x 130mm
5.94'' x 3.43'' x 5.12''

Last edited by Randhawa : 14th August 2010 at 22:01.
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Old 15th August 2010, 02:18   #527
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Stunning response as always Randhawa, thank you. Let's see if I can get my hands on a voltmeter. If it is indeed the battery (touchwood), then I will get an estimate from the Enfield peeps on the timeframe for the warranty replacement and get the Yuasa if neccessary.

Saw on another thread here that its 7k. Will check the battery compartment dimensions tomorrow as well.
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Old 16th August 2010, 18:49   #528
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Guys,

Today I saw a C5 with normal seat, probably old TB's seat. Though it was looking good, it wasn't going with the design of C5. I believe having a higher real mudguard could have helped with the better rear positioning of seat.

As I am planning for long seat on C5, I am thinking to raise the height of rear fender. I am not sure if a diff. stay can be fitted on C5. Do you have any ideas about how I can do this? Once that's done I am also planning to put at 120/90 18" in rear.

I am also planning to upgrade the front tyre to 19" or a 18" with 100/19. This would also need some modification to the front fender's height. Do you think longer stays from CL350 will help? I have seen one C5 with same modifications here.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...ml#post1680398 (All T-BHP Royal Enfield Owners- Your Bike Pics here Please)
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Old 16th August 2010, 20:06   #529
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Should one ideally remap the ECU if one gets the upswept silencer?
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Old 16th August 2010, 20:13   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Should one ideally remap the ECU if one gets the upswept silencer?
From reports of popping on deceleration, it does seem to be running a little lean. But then again, there are reports that the bike pops no matter what exhaust is attached, and it is just audible on the free flowing ones.

Ideally, yes, you would remap it to make it a but richer, but there is no way this is possible at the moment. Any products released abroad won't be applicable to us since it is for the foreign market where they have the O2 sensor.

Apparently a power commander has been released for the UCE FI mill as well, but again, only for those with an O2 sensor.
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Old 17th August 2010, 01:04   #531
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@Hemant- Its sacrilegious to do any external mod on C5. Thats one of the reason I have not touched the seat although only I and other C5 owners know how sour our bumpers get after 45min ride. Its better to get an electra uce as what differs from an classic to other models is mainly the seat, tank pads, oval tool box and rear fender. If you change any of it then its not a c5 any more aesthetically.

Anyways you can out the longer rear seat on without changing the rear fender. You could raise the fender by going with the electra stays but the holes might differ.

Regarding the tyre size, you can go for 120 but you will have to take off the chain guard . Just check the clearance and you will know what I mean.

Going for 19 front means new rim/spokes/tyre and mudguard with support bars, which will cost you 3k plus. If you stick with 18 then you could do with bars from 19 mudguard but that will look out of place but a cheaper option then 19 conversion.

@JKDas Ideally we should but in our case all we require is a free flow air filter on the intake hose rather then mounting it behind the intake body.

A C5 ECU is untouchable. We can not modify the maps or remap it.
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Old 17th August 2010, 06:50   #532
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Hey Randhawa.... I am planning to get C5.. Yesterday went to the showroom in Pune, they said we have 10 months waiting ... In how many days u have got urs??? Would it be a worth one to wait for soooo long????
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Old 17th August 2010, 16:42   #533
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Seat modification: 3rd attempt

Following are some pics of my new seat without the springs.

ON the 15th of Aug, i tested the seat for a 300+ kms ride, from bangalore to yellagiri and back, along with bangalore based Royal knights riding club.

The seat felt much comfortable than stock, but there is some more room for improvement. I believe in my next attempt, i should be able to achieve, what i want.

the pics are not so good, and there were some last minute home remedies applied to seat, just for the ride.

BTW, imagine 56 bullets riding together as a pack. Was quite a sight. (the last pic is just to show the scale).
Attached Thumbnails
The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0081.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0388.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0861.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0863.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0866.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-dsc_0799.jpg  

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Old 17th August 2010, 17:25   #534
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Thanks for sharing the updates Nasirkaka. The contours of the seat look very much OEM but without the springs. Apart from the comfort, how good was the feel of the bike. I suppose it would have given you much better feedback of the road than before ???

Your hard work will not go waste, and shall do a world of good for other owners of C5 who's bums are suffering in silence.....

The picture of the line up is awesome man. Now that's what a real bullet club looks like. Thanks for all the inputs.
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Old 17th August 2010, 18:27   #535
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Quote:
Thanks for sharing the updates Nasirkaka. The contours of the seat look very much OEM but without the springs. Apart from the comfort, how good was the feel of the bike. I suppose it would have given you much better feedback of the road than before ???
Hey, the visual difference on the contours, at the glance may not be much, But there is. I feel what makes the modified one more comfortable is the angle. IN the stock one, the rear of the seat is slightly higher than the front. Makes the rider move front slowly, with each breaking, as the seat is slanting forward. One of the points in the intended modification was to lower down the rear of the seat and make the front slightly higher. Does help.

Now i need to slightly increase the length of the seat. More space and back support for the butt. With this revision, the pillion seat fitment is no issue, wither. Tested installing the pillion seat, and it works just fine without any interferences.

Below is the image for reference. To get the angle right, i had to rotate on of the pic. (or it would be cheating )
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The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-sear-03.jpg  

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Old 17th August 2010, 22:33   #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinjaram View Post
Hey Randhawa.... I am planning to get C5.. Yesterday went to the showroom in Pune, they said we have 10 months waiting ... In how many days u have got urs??? Would it be a worth one to wait for soooo long????
When I bought mine, I had to wait three weeks and that was last year.

@Nasir-You have done a splendid job. If I may, I have a tiny suggestion for your next trial. Just try it and you will understand why and what I meant. Narrow down the base in the middle, in short decrease the thigh support in the middle of the seat from booth the sides and dont bother with extending the seat at rear.

An update for all prospective C5 buyers!!

There are some serious updates for the engine in pipeline(no power upgrades but reliability/noise related) but I'll keep my mouth shut until I see it happening and I might try it myself one of these modification. If I do or when RE does then I'll let you know.

In all honesty all I can suggest is to wait if you can for at least 6-10months, you might get a better improved product by then.
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Old 18th August 2010, 13:35   #537
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And the series of never ending issues on my C5 continues. :(

One problem is rectified and another arises. This time, its the following:

Since i got the bike delivered (4 months now), i never had any starting issues, at any time of the day. BUT, for the past week or so, the bike is having starting problems.
(Initially, i used electric start all the time, but last 2 months, i have been using a combination of kick & electric.)

In the morning, i have been generally kick-starting the bike, and in a single kick it roars to life. At traffic signals, its mostly electric start. Its like, if have the time, i kick start the bike, else use electric start.

The issue is, for past one week, IN THE MORNING, the bike refuses to kick-start. Then i turn to electric start. The motor makes the cranking noise, but the bike does not start. Some times the cranking noise is followed by some loud metallic sounds (metal hitting on metal sound, as is something is broken/loose somewhere). Typically, after 4-5 attempts, the bike starts, but does not hold, if i let the acceleration go. (earlier, i never had stalling issues, once the engines started, it never stalled). Now, once it starts, i need to give a bit of acceleration and hold on for some time.

THIS ISSUE IS ONLY IN THE MORNING. Through out the day, It behaves fine, and starts with either kick or electric start.

Checked the battery electrolyte level. That seem to be fine.

This problem is causing me trouble. I am worried as to whether is some major issues like bearings / sprag clutch, etc..

Went to technic motors service station today and discussed the issue. They cleaned the spark plug, and asked me to try for a few days and see if the problem continues.

Guys, whats in store for me?? any inputs would be most welcome.


PS: I have been using the electric start with minute throttle turn. very little.
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Old 18th August 2010, 15:23   #538
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@Randhawa:

Turns out my starter issue isn't really an issue with the starter. Just tried it a couple of days back and it started. This was after a highway run during the day. So I suspect it is connected with the low battery issue I also reported in my last post.

@Nasirkaka:

In continuation to my post above, it may be a faulty battery. Despite the electrolyte levels being correct, it may not be holding its charge. As Randhawa suggested earlier, you can confirm this by checking the voltage of the battery to see if it is discharged or not.

When I use my headlights in slow moving traffic and the engine dies, it refuses to self start and it takes quite a few kicks for the engine to get going. Sounds similar to your issue in the morning. So maybe your battery drains overnight.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 18th August 2010, 17:21   #539
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@GreaseMonk & @Nasir- Long way back I had written about sprag clutch and how to prolong its life. In that I had clearly mentioned to use Electric Start in the mornings so please do not use kick in the morning to start your cold engine.

Secondly I know the particular signs of sprag clutch failure and you booth have mentioned it. Without any doubts I can say is that the sprag on your bikes will go(depends how many times you have heard the thud and whining sound) and I am hoping that you dont have to take it on a truck to the nearest dealer and if it happens then it goes under warranty. Otherwise you will have to shell under 4k after warranty.

Two main signs of sprag failure.

Spinning of starter motor without engaging the engine(that is a sure sign)
Metallic like thud when you crank the engine, it turns and stop immediately after you let go of the starter with a loud thud(metallic-metal to metal sound)

Sometimes the noise can appear and does not repeat again but if you hear the noises for at least 2-4 times a week then surely it will dye soon.

Best thing to do is to inspect the sprag bearing by removing the sprag unit. Any broken roller or damaged cage will tell you its life span or current state. That will put your mind at ease.

Sometimes the metallic thud can also means the auto decomp is not working properly hence the crank rebound and sprag did what its designed for but the starter making the whining/ engaging sound with no movement to engine is no good sign.


Greasemonk - did you checked out the battery dimensions?
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Old 18th August 2010, 18:44   #540
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Quote:
@GreaseMonk & @Nasir- Long way back I had written about sprag clutch and how to prolong its life. In that I had clearly mentioned to use Electric Start in the mornings so please do not use kick in the morning to start your cold engine.

Secondly I know the particular signs of sprag clutch failure and you booth have mentioned it. Without any doubts I can say is that the sprag on your bikes will go(depends how many times you have heard the thud and whining sound) and I am hoping that you dont have to take it on a truck to the nearest dealer and if it happens then it goes under warranty. Otherwise you will have to shell under 4k after warranty.

Two main signs of sprag failure.

Spinning of starter motor without engaging the engine(that is a sure sign)
Metallic like thud when you crank the engine, it turns and stop immediately after you let go of the starter with a loud thud(metallic-metal to metal sound)

Sometimes the noise can appear and does not repeat again but if you hear the noises for at least 2-4 times a week then surely it will dye soon.

Best thing to do is to inspect the sprag bearing by removing the sprag unit. Any broken roller or damaged cage will tell you its life span or current state. That will put your mind at ease.

Sometimes the metallic thud can also means the auto decomp is not working properly hence the crank rebound and sprag did what its designed for but the starter making the whining/ engaging sound with no movement to engine is no good sign.
Opps!! I though in general, it would be wiser to kick start the bike as frequent as one can, to protect the sprag and motor, Esp during the cold start in the morning.

Randhawa, your description of the problem exactly fits my current state.
About 3-4 times in past week, the bike refused to start. Sometimes the motor whines whithout engaging. Sometimes it engages, but not enough for engine to roar to life. On persistent press of the E start button, the whining of the motor is followed by loud metallic clanks!

Why does is happen only in the morning? Rest of the day the E start works fine. Is it just the starting of the problem, and may get grave sooner?

As i am not too familiar with these parts, could you please explain in a layman's terms as to how to inspect the sprag bearings? Or shoud i just take it to the service centre and get the whole damn thing replaced? But will they replace if its not Broken, under warrenty? I dont want to wait till the whole thing breaks down and jams the engine and spoils other parts as well. I hate to be in this current state, with just 4 month old bike, having taken all proper care for the bikes longevity. Why did RE did not address the issue after the sprag issues with LB 500? How come Tata Nano, costing less than a C5 does not have issues with E start?? Because of constant problems with my C5, i am not even able to concentrate on work. Most of my time goes in running around getting the issues fixed, and the issues seem to be endless...one after another.

I Dont think the battery is weak. My gut feeling.

the following is a post from another forum, a similar issue, and the culprit was pointed to relay circuit. Can that be a possibility?



So here's my problem.

Being new I used the electric starter of CL 500 and it worked like a charm until abt 2000 KMs I had my first servicing at around 1000Kms (I know I was lazy to take it to service center earlier, been very buzy) anyways it went all fine, until 2000 KMs the bike wouldnt start until 3-4 pushes of the button and I had to resort to kick start and then push the electic start and it would run fine. I noticed the black smoke (but thought it be the choke that I used while kick starting, causing rich mixture).

Around 2500 KMs one early morning it just refused to start up, it felt terrible, with a bruised ego that I couldnt start a new bike...felt my manhood shrunk a few precious inches. I called Manjunath helpline guy, he replaced one spark plug and it started up. I took to RE Bannarghata Service center next day. The guy (Subramanium or something) told me they are hearing similar problems with other CL500 owners and they replaced my spark plugs with some high temprature ones. And also told me to careful where I fill the petrol. That could also be the reason of too much carbon on the plugs.

I was happy that I wasnt alone in this misery other CL500s are experiencing same. But then I have continued to fill petrol @pure for sure service stations and that too paying extra for speed. I could feel it running smoother, and better response. But my starting problem is still there and has become worse.

Every time I park my bike, I gently push down the kicker so that piston is at TDC and usually when I am back it starts up by one kick. But it never works with electric starter. If by chance it doesnt start it by one kick and I kick it 2-3 times (without the choke) I can smell the petrol (like the mixture is rich) You could actually hear the electric sensor/pump or whatever doing some work when you are pushing down the kick starter. I felt like the EFI is pumping in more fuel each time I kick it and the plugs are not sparking....

After which I use the electric start for 20-30 secs, thinking it will fire the plugs and atleast combust something, it does work sometimes and the resulting exhaust is black snooty

I tried to reason with myself analytically as I could. But I have a very limited knowledge I will be happier if someone can help me fix this.

Service center guys are pain to deal with, they leave me unattended, give some muddled answers to all problems, and I dont want to get mad at them yet.

Executive summary:
Electric starting doesnt work, feels as if mixture is too rich, Service centre put in some new high temprature spark plugs, but no affect. Been using best petrol I can find, still seeing starting issue.


@Aby: Regarding relay circuit issue, I will definitely will talk abt it to my service center, if they can troubleshoot in that direction. Did you experience absolutely same as mine with starting issues. Mine just does whrrrr whrrr sound like its rolling, and if I keep pressing it longer, I sometimes hear a horrible clink clank of engine knocking, like piston & cylinder having a sword fight P.... its nerve racking sound. But EStart works okay when engine is warmed up.



Help!
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