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Old 22nd October 2010, 16:49   #766
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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
@Hemant- Why don't you try the machismo handle.

Just because it doesn't impress me much. Its just too simple. The one on woodsman looks good with a center bar.
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Old 22nd October 2010, 17:36   #767
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Default Squeaking noise

I paid 1.45 lakhs to buy a host a of problems with which RE company gave me a free CL500.I am still in the running in stage.I am a newbie, but still i do know the kinds of noises the engine should not be making.Apart from the "other" engine noises, there is one peculiar noise which I experienced.Some times i hear a squeaking noise out of my bike.This generally happens when i press the clutch lever.Although sometimes the squeaking(exactly like a mouse) noise comes even when the engine is running in neutral.When i move the rear wheel with my hand (without the engine running) and engage the 1st gear and press the clutch i do hear the noise again.Please can you help me out with the same.
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Old 22nd October 2010, 18:18   #768
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Originally Posted by Endofdayz View Post
@randhawa.

Does the early morning ES also implies to TBTS. should we do only ES during early mornings?. Why i'm asking this is my Sparg clutch has taken the beatings and replaced under warranty. But since my bike has travelled for 9100 KMs and warranty left for only 900 kms... its cost is huge. please share some gyan on the same. thanks.
It implies to all the UCE engined bikes. Which includes your TBTS too. Please go through the thread to find your answer.

@cooded- Welcome to Team-Bhp and I hope you have nice time on here.

You have a very peculiar problem which I have not heard so far but we shall try to diagnose it. But for that you will have to get the clutch side cover opened up to inspect for the following

I am assuming its not the clutch cable squealing and noise is coming from the clutch side cover.

Check the clutch assembly along with the pressure plates/clutch plates and the springs. See if the whole assembly is not simply loose in its place. It has happened before to someone.
Check the clutch lever assembly and the small ball bearing which is in front of the clutch assembly.
Get the bolt on the sprag checked for any excess play.

Thats all to it as the design is quite simple and wont take long to diagnose it.

Last edited by Randhawa : 22nd October 2010 at 18:22.
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Old 22nd October 2010, 18:47   #769
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Just because it doesn't impress me much. Its just too simple. The one on woodsman looks good with a center bar.
Something similar is available here - Royal Enfield Zone

I kind of like this handlebar - Straight with extensions, but guess we need replace with longer cables Royal Enfield Zone
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Old 22nd October 2010, 18:55   #770
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Originally Posted by Endofdayz View Post
Does the early morning ES also implies to TBTS. should we do only ES during early mornings?.
The present Classic 350 with UCE engine owner's manual says "In cold condition of the engine or for initial start, it is advised to use electric start (ES) only"

Since I hear lot of Sprag clutch problem, here is a scan of relevant page from C350 Owners manual
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Old 22nd October 2010, 19:39   #771
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Originally Posted by diwa View Post
Something similar is available here - Royal Enfield Zone

I kind of like this handlebar - Straight with extensions, but guess we need replace with longer cables Royal Enfield Zone
One of my friend has put the handlebar that you have liked on TBTS but frankly its too straight for riding. The posture is not perfect. He then replaced the straight rod with FZ handlebar. Looks good but I feel it's more like a mudtrack racing bike.

I liked the other handlebar (woodsman type) but the quality of their product is not good. I will try to find something similar in Pune will let ya know.
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Old 22nd October 2010, 20:51   #773
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@Nasir- Just a question to you, do you think a bike with a weight of 185kg can be compared to a bike of approx 140kg? Reduce the stroke and crank weight to get what you want or wait for Hitchcock to come up with a kit for our C5 to get the 40bhp. It is doable but need some money to get what you want.
My point has nothing do with performance mods, its just that when i saw the mojo specs (26 bhp from a 292cc engine), i felt a bit jealous.

I guess any engine would have scope of performance enhancement, mine is a case of wanting more from the stock.


@ Greasemonk:

In principle, i totally agree with you point of view and explanation. Its just that i would be a bit happier if the C5 gave more juice in stock form.

Quote:
1. 500 cc vs 300 cc - Mojo has made a good amount of power out of a lower CC. No one is denying this. agree
2. Redlines at around 5500 - 5700 rpm vs Redline at 8500+ rpm. Though both are low revving by international standards (single cylinders are also inherently more difficult to balance resulting in lower rpm machines) 8500 rpm is significantly more than 5500. Power is proportional to engine speed.
agree, and i believe the low revving design was also considered keeping the thump in mind. However, the thump in C5 is not really pronounced, as randhawa truly mentions in his first post: "CL500 is a Indian version of a mid-range revving thumper". 60kmph and above, the thump is anyways lost, whatever silencer we may use. i personally would not have minded lack of thump if the engine revved a bit faster, producing more power.
3. Pushrod vs DOHC - Though the C5 is a new engine, it uses old technology. Pushrod operated valves imposes a large inertial component in the engines operation resulting in being slow to react to quick changes resulting in less aggressive cams. Less aggressive cams lead to a less performance-oriented state of tune.
Again the same point here. If one is designing a new engine from scratch, why not use the best of the technology available? if they could upgrade to hydraulic, why not a DOHC? Not sure about cost and other technical implications here, but i would not care much if there was DOHC instead of pushrods, as long as the engine was reliable and more efficient.

4. Air vs Water cooled - This is one of my biggest points of contention. Water cooling allows the engine to deal with higher compression ratios which gives more "bang-per-buck" as far as combusting petrol goes. I cant stress enough how much more power one can get by increasing an engine's compression ratio. The C5's ratio is 8.5:1 while the Modjo's is 11:1. Thats a huge jump.

Agree. But lets just take triumph Bonneville as an analogy. Even they are air-cooled. OK, they are twin, 865cc generating 66 bhps @ 7500 rpm. Diving it by 2, comes to about 33 bhp per 430 cc. I might be stupid even thinking of comparing them, but thats how i end up looking at specs and when i try and compare it to the C5, i feel its underpowered.

5. Possible other point: Open loop FI vs Closed loop FI. Not sure if this translates into providing a possible power advantage as I hear different impacts of the presence of an O2 sensor from different sources. I'll let Randhawa handle that.

Better left to the Boss. But i guess, it would make an impact as the feedback provided by lambda would help maintain correct A/F ratio, leaving no guess work for the ECU.

To conclude: Yes, the C5 is an underpowered 500cc engine in today's market. Although its touted as an all new engine, it is still built on old tech with a mordern twist (hydraulic tappets, open loop FI). This old tech leads to physical limitations which cannot be ignored when determining if an amount of power justifies the engine's displacement. Before RE can concentrate on extracting more power out of its engines it should look into its quality assurance before it can hope to achieve the tight tolerances required for performance tuned engines. It can then move upto incorporating mordern tech into its engines and get over the fact that it's engines should hold on to some misguided sense of retro-homage.

Very true. RE came up with an all new UCE 500, launched it in market, and after one year, plan 56 odd improvements and counting. This speaks volumes on their quality and reliability. hopefully someday....


Finally I forgot to mention that one shouldn't look at bhp figures alone. The torque generated by the c5 completely trumps the Mojo by a fair margin.
Hey, thats not fair.Mojo is generating 24NM from 292 CC
C5 is generating 41.3 NM of torque
from 500cc
going by MOJO specs, if mojo had a 500 cc engine, probably it would generate 37 bhp and around 40NM of torque. Thats where i call the UCE 500 an under-performer in stock condition.

Last edited by nasirkaka : 22nd October 2010 at 21:08.
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Old 22nd October 2010, 22:34   #774
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@Nasir- I know what you mean but we calm our selves by simply following the legacy of old thumper and ignoring what can be done to improve. Other side to that is cost factor. With more modern motor would have pushed the price of the bike and here is what the old bulleters would have separated paths dwindling down the sale chart. What if RE was selling the bike with real 35bhp and rev limit to 6k, that would have taken the bike to a much higher level of performance and may be the niche market would have reduced.

Some decisions are made by the management which has no clue to the real world bikers and we are left with what is offered. I am sure they have the money to offer something better but would we buy a bull which would cost 3L? May be yes and may be no, thats a toughfy for the management.

I feel this discussion is healthy and we should carry on this debate until we get to some conclusion and live with the truth.

If we can get a piggy back ECU or simply the capability of re-mapping the current ECU with and wide band O2 then surely we will make Nasir very happy with getting more power from a stock motor and without changing any internals. The injector and F pump are highly capable of delivering more power on our C5 but we are not getting maximum from them. I can bet on that it can be done but just needs some full time involvement on this.

All right Nasir you have finally won on electrical reliability of C5. I finally got a electrical problem but still cant blame RE for that. The battery has given up and my bike refused to start with ES. But thanks to the little Amp meter mod I had done, I did not panicked as the meter showed me the charging was up to the mark and its simply the battery which now needs replacing. I can carry on riding as the RR is providing enough current to all the electrical's as if nothing had happened. High beam, indicators and even the mimzy horn is working normally.

Still I'll get the wiring checked for any charge drain happening overnight and get the battery check for gravity per cell.
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Old 23rd October 2010, 00:40   #775
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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
All right Nasir you have finally won on electrical reliability of C5. I finally got a electrical problem but still cant blame RE for that. The battery has given up and my bike refused to start with ES. But thanks to the little Amp meter mod I had done, I did not panicked as the meter showed me the charging was up to the mark and its simply the battery which now needs replacing. I can carry on riding as the RR is providing enough current to all the electrical's as if nothing had happened. High beam, indicators and even the mimzy horn is working normally.

Still I'll get the wiring checked for any charge drain happening overnight and get the battery check for gravity per cell.
Speaking of which, the Yuasa battery you suggested earlier is larger than the exide and was pretty overpriced at Baachoo Motors. I ended up ordering the Yuasa YTX14AHL-BS as suggested by Singhg5 on the enfieldmotorcycle forums.

6k all inclusive from ebay global easy buy. A rather large investment for a battery, but I am sick of playing the waiting game with RE\exide for the warranty replacement and not being able to ride around comfortably at night wondering if I'm going to completely kill what's left of my juice.

Also ordered for a Deltran Battery Tender Plus for 3k from the same source. Pretty much the same price it retails for abroad so figured this would be a good investment.
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Old 23rd October 2010, 01:24   #776
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If I was to keep the bike for long then surely I would have invested in Yuasa. Probably I'll get a purple exide battery now as for some reason thats the color exide has chosen for replacement batteries.

Yeah I did mentioned yuasa battery and gave you the dimensions to check if it would fit the battery pod. Glad you got it at cheaper price and now we know which is the best battery we can get for our bull and fits like a glove.

Yuasa also list YTX14AHL-BS as the right fitment for the CI bulls. Yuasa Batteries :: Motorcycle

I wish we could get this battery at same price its available abroad.

Is it the trickle charger you got?
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Old 23rd October 2010, 03:54   #777
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Not exactly a trickle charger in the sense that it varies the charging current based on the state of the battery.

Frequently Asked Questions - Batterytender.com
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Old 24th October 2010, 12:36   #778
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Some updates:

Thanks to Randhawa for his support, i was able to fit the K&N 0090 on the bike without much hassle. Actually its quite simple. some pictures follow below to show how it was done.

Also, got and fixed the NGK Iridum plug on the bike. (The primary plug)

Have given the goldie for glass wool type conversion, should get it by next week.

FEEDBACK:

Did a small test ride after fixing the K&N filter and NGK plug.
The bike started a bit quickly, and there was a feeling of slight increase in pickup. Nothing much to write home about, but in general it felt smoother. Got to try it on a longer run to get better understanding.
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Old 25th October 2010, 00:28   #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
I
@cooded- Welcome to Team-Bhp and I hope you have nice time on here.

You have a very peculiar problem which I have not heard so far but we shall try to diagnose it. But for that you will have to get the clutch side cover opened up to inspect for the following

I am assuming its not the clutch cable squealing and noise is coming from the clutch side cover.

Check the clutch assembly along with the pressure plates/clutch plates and the springs. See if the whole assembly is not simply loose in its place. It has happened before to someone.
Check the clutch lever assembly and the small ball bearing which is in front of the clutch assembly.
Get the bolt on the sprag checked for any excess play.

Thats all to it as the design is quite simple and wont take long to diagnose it.
Thanks Randhawa...One more question...does the cl500 have tappets?(considering that it has a FI)?Also i can feel a hiss with every thump of the engine.Why is that so?.Anyways i have completed 400 kms and waiting to go for the 1st servicing as soon as i complete 500 kms with all the problems and your solutions too. I am not going to the dealer ever again for anything.I have found a RE authorized mechanic.Lets see if he can solve the issues.
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Old 25th October 2010, 12:12   #780
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Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
Some updates:

Thanks to Randhawa for his support, i was able to fit the K&N 0090 on the bike without much hassle. Actually its quite simple. some pictures follow below to show how it was done.

Also, got and fixed the NGK Iridum plug on the bike. (The primary plug)

Have given the goldie for glass wool type conversion, should get it by next week.

FEEDBACK:

Did a small test ride after fixing the K&N filter and NGK plug.
The bike started a bit quickly, and there was a feeling of slight increase in pickup. Nothing much to write home about, but in general it felt smoother. Got to try it on a longer run to get better understanding.
This is great Nasir. What is the NGK plug number?
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