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Old 13th December 2010, 22:07   #1006
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

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Originally Posted by bradhey View Post
Would depend entirely on your usage. If it would be mostly used for serious touring in remote areas, such as Ladakh, Twang etc. The older bullet has better possibilities of repairs and spares.....however for leisure riding the classic is better suited. The older bullet can also be upgraded with performance parts more easily than the new UCE 500.

That said, the Classic is the more modern, smooth and frugal of the two mills.
Thanks will look out for a used Cl5 then rather than get this Machismo AVL 500LB
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Old 13th December 2010, 23:00   #1007
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Swing arm upgrade and performance parts for C5

For those who have been following this thread then they will remember when we were anticipating upgrade/modification for the swing arm alongside bushes upgrade.

News is that there will be no upgrade available on swing arm from RE. Reason is due to legality of our Indian Automotive rules. Simply because when the bike is passed by the government of a particular model, manufacturer is not allowed to alter the design in any form except some changes. So even if RE wanted to come out with the new swing arm, they can not hence the tyre size upgrade. Otherwise the factory has very high chances of closing it's doors by the government. Thats what I have been told from an official source.

Now coming down to what I had planned for the swing arm bushes. I wanted to go with the old style steel and rubber bushes from CI bulls as I felt they were far better then going in for bronze bushes replacing the plastic type OEM bushes on the swing arm.

Although I never went in for the modification but I am quite pleased to inform you all that Hitchcock-UK is offering the same bushes from CI bulls for our C5 as an upgrade to help with the instability issue. So you all don't need to wait for someone else to try before you could go in for that as its a recommended upgrade by Hitchcock.
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Along other things which are on offer from Hitchcock is a forged piston which will raise the CC from 500 to 535cc, increasing the bore size from 84mm to 87mm. Giving you better performance and power. Priced at £140+ 13% vat if ordered by 2010 or 20%vat if ordered in 2011 as vat in Uk is going up from 13 to 20%.

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A sweet looking voltmeter is available at £34 + VAT.

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Last edited by Randhawa : 13th December 2010 at 23:02.
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Old 13th December 2010, 23:27   #1008
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

DYNOJET POWER COMMANDER

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-92018.jpg


Word to word from Hitchcocks
The first step to tuning your Bullet is to fine tune the fuel to air mixture that the engine receives. With carburettor models this is fairly easy but with the EFI models it is all controlled by a factory set “ECU” (engine control unit). Even with a standard engine we have found that the mixture ratio is not always perfect and can not be adjusted. In conjunction with Dynojet UK we have developed a “Power Commander 5 System”. This works by piggy backing the existing ECU which makes changes to the existing settings to deliver the optimum ratio of fuel and air at any given throttle position and engine revs. Whilst this can offer some improvements on a standard model, it is essential when tuning the engine with different silencers and air filters etc. Dyno figures show that we have gained approximately 20% increase in BHP at the rear wheel coupled with a smoother power curve by using a different air filter and silencer.

OXYGEN SENSOR BLANKING BOLT (Part Number: 91008A) If you have fitted the Dynojet Power Commander you will need to disconnect the oxygen sensor in the exhaust pipe. This stainless steel polished domed bolt can be used to blank off the hole that is left exposed when you remove the sensor.

Priced at £285+ VAT

This might be useful to our C5 as it does not uses the O2 sensor so future looks bright for non O2 sensor equipped C5 but for approx Rs22k I rather go for a big bore kit in future
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Old 13th December 2010, 23:37   #1009
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

At this rate, keep saving and buy a Bonneville next year.

Just a small update from my side: The Classic 350 has left me surprised. It cruises at 100. Not that I tried it for too long, but it did not feel like the end of the world while running constantly at a 100 kph. Once the UCE is revved crazy, with all the deposits burnt off, cruising at 80 becomes a true joy! I would request all UCE riders to go out there and let 'er rip (only if you have completed your run-in)
Cheers
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Old 14th December 2010, 00:19   #1010
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Didn't I kept saying you should let it roll a bit, see it wasn't that hard was it
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Old 14th December 2010, 02:18   #1011
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
DYNOJET POWER COMMANDER




Word to word from Hitchcocks
The first step to tuning your Bullet is to fine tune the fuel to air mixture that the engine receives. With carburettor models this is fairly easy but with the EFI models it is all controlled by a factory set “ECU” (engine control unit). Even with a standard engine we have found that the mixture ratio is not always perfect and can not be adjusted. In conjunction with Dynojet UK we have developed a “Power Commander 5 System”. This works by piggy backing the existing ECU which makes changes to the existing settings to deliver the optimum ratio of fuel and air at any given throttle position and engine revs. Whilst this can offer some improvements on a standard model, it is essential when tuning the engine with different silencers and air filters etc. Dyno figures show that we have gained approximately 20% increase in BHP at the rear wheel coupled with a smoother power curve by using a different air filter and silencer.

OXYGEN SENSOR BLANKING BOLT (Part Number: 91008A) If you have fitted the Dynojet Power Commander you will need to disconnect the oxygen sensor in the exhaust pipe. This stainless steel polished domed bolt can be used to blank off the hole that is left exposed when you remove the sensor.

Priced at £285+ VAT

This might be useful to our C5 as it does not uses the O2 sensor so future looks bright for non O2 sensor equipped C5 but for approx Rs22k I rather go for a big bore kit in future

@Randhawa: The part highlighted in bold suggests that they will make changes in the existing fuel injector mapping or the code in the memory. Does that mean RE has disclosed the details of the processor etc...??

I was always interested in fuel injector than the engine...because the engine has proven itself...its time to look into the fuel injector.
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Old 14th December 2010, 10:33   #1012
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Not really. Tuners are able to crack the code and create their piggy backs. No OEM shares there code afaik. In any case, it looks way to expensive to make much sense.
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Old 14th December 2010, 12:11   #1013
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Randhawa

Post from BCMT forum on C5. This is about another Italian company selling
performance units for C5 engines.

QUOTE

A 7bhp boost to C5.

I was communicating with Robert tottimotori for quite some time on his EFI power injection unit. I had posted him our Indian C5 EFI details, technical queries and pictures of our C5 EFI, he confirmed me that his EFI power injection unit can be installed on our C5 and it gives an increase in 7bhp to our C5. A single piece cost is high €320 but he has said if taken 10 pieces he would give in good discounted price.

@Guys from Bangalore I will discuss with you all on this during our next Bangalore C5 meet.

Below description pulled from his site.


Additional injection unit - TOTTIMOTORI

TOTTIMOTORI presents an additional engine control unit for Triumph and Royal Enfield.

The engine control unit and additional 'a form that allows you to adjust the calibration of fuel injection and engine load. Basically allows to increase both the injector opening time that the amount of fuel flow to the engine.

The connection and control signal intervention is absolutely parallel, this system avoids unlike other disorders due to the original impedance injectors or current absorption. The additional digital stations TOTTIMOTORI You can increase the performance of the bike up to a 20% increase in power by enriching the flow of gasoline to improve performance by eliminating the noise during opening and closing gas perfectly preserved the original system, without affecting the warranty the manufacturer.

Timing and automatic data collection independent of each cylinder, means that each cylinder picks up the RPM, phase and time of injection without disturbing the original unit. The unit has a size of 9x5 cm, can be installed under the seat next to the battery are provided with all wiring and instructions, installation is simple and fast, does not alter the original system, can be uninstalled at any time and the engine takes the data from the control standard.

TECHNICAL additional unit

* POWER 12 V
* Negative Ground
* CE CERTIFIED
* 4 output channels
* Microprocessor-ATMEL MICROCHIP

Version is also available in a Emultore Lambda double entry.
It is a device that sends a signal to the control of fuel mixture perfect, then you can replace the original exhaust with a more 'performance by eliminating the catalyst and the attack of the sensor on the exhaust pipe. Or, if maintained, the controller sends the optimal values of the fuel mixture to improve engine operation.

THESE PRODUCTS ARE AVAILABLE FOR
TRIUMPH: BONNEVILLE SCRAMBLER-Truxton-INJECTION MODELS
ROYAL ENFIELD: 500 EFI ALL VERSIONS

Link to the site: Google Translate

UNQUOTE

My initial feeling is that this seems to be a better one from cost-per-1 bhp
Your expert comments please.
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Old 14th December 2010, 13:03   #1014
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Where's the proof that one will get 7 bhp?

I am extremely skeptical about such plug and play devices. There is always a catch.

I know most of you might not agree, I still feel that no RE has mechanicals that can withstand additional stress. Its like you install a power commander, and the rattles knock it out. :P
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Old 14th December 2010, 13:55   #1015
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
Where's the proof that one will get 7 bhp?

I am extremely skeptical about such plug and play devices. There is always a catch.

I know most of you might not agree, I still feel that no RE has mechanicals that can withstand additional stress. Its like you install a power commander, and the rattles knock it out. :P
The 7 bhp number comes from one of the fellow members on another forum. He ash directly communicated with the guy who is producing and selling these.

Regarding REs ability to handle additional power loads: I think of all the vehicles available in our market today, RE is the best one to handle higher power specs. Moreover there are enough examples of higher-power-revision versions of REs running on the roads.
If at all, am worried about the swing-arm stability with the higher power driven higher speeds. That can again be handled well be Randhawa's previous post.
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Old 14th December 2010, 13:57   #1016
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
Hi

The correct relation is between back pressure and torque. You will find better low end torque with a more constricting exhaust path.
This might be the reason Nasirkaka's bull was lugging at low speeds. However, I would advise against continuing at very low revs, just downshift if you feel the revs are falling. It will be much better for your engine.

Cheers

PS: @Sanjeet I am back in Delhi.
Hello Experts, Sorry to drag the forum backwards ! For the sake of curiosity
: I read some where (Wikipedia I think) that back pressure is actually harmful to 4 stroke engines and the more the engine breaths and exhales freely the more the power and health to the engine. Comments please. (Got some links on back pressure as well)
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_pr...torquemyth.htm
http://my.prostreetonline.com/forums...php?t-1639.htm
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=195057

Last edited by adrian : 14th December 2010 at 14:10.
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Old 14th December 2010, 14:57   #1017
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
Where's the proof that one will get 7 bhp?
I know most of you might not agree, I still feel that no RE has mechanicals that can withstand additional stress. Its like you install a power commander, and the rattles knock it out. :P
For the older engines, I completely agree with you about the in-ability of RE mechanicals to take additional stress, especially the valve-train. I'm not sure about the UCE breeds though.
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Old 14th December 2010, 17:20   #1018
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Coded-Anyone who can hack into the ECU will know what processor its running. It's a piggy back ECU which means the OEM ecu will provide normal signal to injector but the piggy back ECU will modify the signal and then send it to injector. In more simple words, the signal sent by OEM ecu will be taken to the piggy back ecu from there it will be modified and send the signal to injector.

@Adityaj- To show any gains from any tuner, first they will have to provide a true dyno chart from stock motor and then after tuneup chart. Considering even some popular tuners fake a dyno chart to cheat customers. So even a dyno chart provided for display will be highly suspected.

First of all our C5 does not even make 27bhp as stated on papers. In reality its between 21-23bhp. So with these kits it might increase it to few bhp at best.

I would rather spend money on a big bore kit and carb it.

Regarding can this engine take the extra load?. Darn yes it can. Right now its not tuned to performance oriented results rather tuned to km/L demands.

I am sure this bike is capable of achieving 35bhp in stock form but to raise it further would need some high lift cams and few other upgrades.

I personally feel going for carb conversion and big bore kit is the way forward until someone comes out with real results with genuine proof.
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Old 14th December 2010, 17:22   #1019
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian View Post
Hello Experts, Sorry to drag the forum backwards ! For the sake of curiosity
: I read some where (Wikipedia I think) that back pressure is actually harmful to 4 stroke engines and the more the engine breaths and exhales freely the more the power and health to the engine. Comments please. (Got some links on back pressure as well)
The truth about exhaust backpressure and torque
The myth of exhaust backpressure [Archive] - My Pro Street
Backpressure fact or fiction (on a 4-stroke) - ApriliaForum sponsored by AF1 Racing, inc.

Quote:
Earlier cars (and motorcycles) with carburetion often could not adjust because of the way that backpressure caused air to flow backwards through the carburetor

Is this true?
I thought the most backpressure does is prevent the unexploded mixture from entering the exhaust. I always thought that all the popping backfires Bulleteers show off were a result of a lean setting or a free flow exhaust.
Well the articles just declare it to be so, without giving much info to back up their claim. I do feel that with an engine that is unable to adjust fuel flow electronically, back pressure plays a role in the low end torque.

But a technically sound discussion on this topic would be great.

@Aditya

High clearances and high power never go hand in hand. Also, the flaw of overheating has not escaped the UCEs. I know this does not qualify as a sound mechanical argument, but with a valve train that rattly, I doubt this bike should be made to go any faster!
And let us not forget their innate ability to vibrate their nuts off.

@Sanjeet

It is not just the engine. The whole mechanical system needs to work cohesively to handle extra power. With the sort of build quality we see, I doubt the whole setup can take it.

Last edited by EssYouWe : 14th December 2010 at 17:27.
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Old 14th December 2010, 17:49   #1020
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

"the flaw of overheating has not escaped the UCEs"

Seriously Achint you have no idea about UCE and its capabilities. I'll let you know shortly and specially about the imaginary heating flaw you believe in. Only one upgrade this bike needs which is a small one and will be bullet proof. The UCE is overbuilt and it will chew whatever you through at it.

I always kept saying not to play to soft on the bike and prolonged sissy running in will cause heating and performance issues.

Dont you think if I who is probably the only chap in the whole world who has gone through two re-builts on UCE 500 under 20k in one year will know a bit about it's capabilities? I speak from my own experience.
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