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Old 3rd February 2011, 15:31   #1246
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Nasirkaka: Ah this is one of the topics i was discussing with a friend who owns 7 CL500 s

Randhawa you too should think about this.

What we were discussing was the engine temp. sensor fitted onto the cylinder head below the intake manifold.
We have been trying this on and of again with all the bikes.when the engine is cold there is smoke and the bike performs poorly and it gives lesser mileage as well.Also the spark plugs too get shot very easily.

Now when the bike is hot.It performs well, No smoke.Perfect spark plugs and decent mileage as well.

So basically its too rich when cold.Same is the condition in colder weather.

Now the temperature sensor is basically a resistance based sensor.If we can get the resistance values for the sensor in Hot condition then we can remove the sensor and install a permanent resistance in the wire and then the bike will always be in lean condition.

Now Randhawa can you get one of the engineers from RE to comment on this and maybe get some values out of him.

Another way is to attach a Multimeter to the wires and see what is the resistance being offered by the sensor.But for this we will have to disconnect the sensor wires and attach another set of wires to connect the multimeter or else the whole wiring loop would interfere with the values.
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Old 3rd February 2011, 16:48   #1247
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@Ricky- Difference will be more crisp gear change and better pickup along with better clutch life. Not sure about the price difference but I think its not much may be Rs 200-300 at max.

@Nasir- Atmospheric temperature does play a huge part but the MAP sensor has nothing to do with if it gets cold,hot or warm air. It works simply on atmospheric pressure.

Where the temperature effects our bike is through the engine itself. In simple layman terms- If you pass hot water through an iron pipe when the temperature of the pipe itself is lets say is 15C, by the time water exits from the pipe the temperature will be far less compared to when it entered the cold pipe. Now if you warm up the pipe 30C and then pass hot water through it. The temperature loss of the hot water will be far less compared to when it passes through a cold pipe.

Imply this theory to engine and you will get what I am saying. When your engine is cold, on start up the oil goes through head and then after going through booth the LH RH side returns back to head. In its journey the oil looses its temperature as it gets absorbed through the cold crank chamber/ side covers and engine takes more time to warm up the oil to return the rich mixture to lean.

So you will get less mileage in winters as compared to summers when ambient temperature is hovering around 30 all day long. If you warm up the bike for around 3-5 minutes before moving then you can get better mileage in winters too.

By the way did you got the bushes changed?

@Navpreet- In theory and practical what you and your friend are working on is very much possible and people have done it. But it's mostly done on track day cars and even get the o2 sensors removed. Only problem is that you need to remap after lot of dynos are done to get the perfect calibrations for optimum performance.

Where we get stuck is the absence of O2 sensor as we do need some help from other sensor to get things in loop. That is where open loop and closed loop ECU comes in. On our C5, when the engine gets to the optimum temp it starts getting the values from the ECU map stored on it and keep checking with the temp sensor too. But with the C5 with the O2 sensor it has a fall back plan to get things in sync.

Without O2 sensor or a remap I think we can get into trouble.
Few things to consider before jumping into fixed resistance resister.

Our C5 performs best when lean but worse at the same time when running around in city at slow speeds when engine is too hot.
Temperature keeps changing all the time you are running slow or hard.
Sea level effects the timing and fuel ratio.
With O2 sensor, we could have things to fall back on for extra input.
Consequences of running too lean.
You dont want the engine to run lean when riding at high altitudes or you loose power.

As much as I would like to go with a resistor I personally feel it wont be worth unless if you can get someone to just read the maps at all riding conditions and come up with an average resistor value then it will work to our liking. Only one downside if you do get the perfect resistor value for the optimum performance is that until the engine does not get to the temp which gives the certain resistor value, the engine will not run well but once you get to that temp then its all good from there on.

Worth looking into and trying it out too.

Anyways here are the values

Specification:
Operating temperature : –30o C to +120o C
Operating Voltage : 5 ± 0.5 V. Resistance Value w.r.t. Temperature
–20o C –– 18.8 Kilo Ohms
+ 40o C –– 1.136 Kilo Ohms
+ 100o C –– 0.1553 Kilo Ohms

There is a huge difference from 18.8 to 0.1533 KOhms. Finding the right resistance value wont be easy unless we can read the maps or use multimeter.

Multiple times I got the reading checked through the Keihin software while idling after some hard riding and temp was hovering around 85șC.

Last edited by Randhawa : 3rd February 2011 at 17:00.
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Old 3rd February 2011, 21:59   #1248
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

reg temp sensor, how about a resistor in parallel (across sensor terminals) with a value corresponding to ambient/ warm engine temperature. So that when engine is cold the resistor completes circuit and once engine has fully warmed up, the sensor value being lower than resistor takes over the circuit. i know its all easy to say
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Old 3rd February 2011, 23:23   #1249
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I dont think thats technically feasible
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Old 4th February 2011, 03:21   #1250
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
Could it be possible for the environmental temperature to affect the C5 mileage?

I was getting about 22-24 kmpl during the winter months, and not the average is back to 27kmpl. wondering!!
Is it already THAT hot in Bangalore? !!
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Old 4th February 2011, 13:10   #1251
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Quote:
So you will get less mileage in winters as compared to summers when ambient temperature is hovering around 30 all day long. If you warm up the bike for around 3-5 minutes before moving then you can get better mileage in winters too.

By the way did you got the bushes changed?
Hey, then i guess something else is playing tricks with my mileage, as i religiously do warm-up the bike nicely every morning. My usual process is, start the bike, and light a cigarette (i know, i know, its bad!). By the time the ciggi gets over, the engine is decently warmed up. The auto decomp noise is gone. With this practice, i should be getting good average in winters too.
Maybe, the cleaning of plugs, oil change, etc at the last service helped improve the mileage.

I have studied your process of changing the bush, but yet to get it done on my bike. At the last service, was to get the same but they did not do it. As of now, the bike is been running fine, and i havent been on any long rides recently, and no immediate long haul plans. So been just using the bike in the city, mixed with my bicycle. been avoiding service stations
But yes, thats one change i intend to get it done with asap.

Quote:
Is it already THAT hot in Bangalore? !!
Its NEVER that hot in bangalore.

But yeah, its not as chilly as it was during dec/jan.
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Old 5th February 2011, 01:54   #1252
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Whats playing up with your bike is excess carbon if even after servicing your bike is giving under 25km/L. Because the way you are warming up your bike is just the way I do it and that is the best way.

If the average is increasing after service and they did de-carbonised the head and your average will increase soon enough. You will also see an increase in performance. Another thing is if your fuel tank is above 4L most of the times then you will get better performance and average too. Recently made some observations about fuel volume in tank to top speed. Found out that if the F tank has less then 4 or 3L of fuel no matter how much I squeezed the throttle and for longer duration, bike refused to go past 120.

The moment I filled her up above 4L, performance and top speed came back to normal with bike reaching 130+ with ease at any given time or condition.

Update on the new Upswept

Some correction and addition to what I said earlier. Looked carefully at the new upswept and found out that the main rear shaft bolt is still inaccessible with the upswept. If you get a puncture in summers then may God help you.

A very cute looking heat guard is provided to protect your pillion rider from smoking his/her shoes and saving them from reducing the no of shoes from the collection. I really liked it. Very thoughtful and goes with the classic look, quite discreet too.

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On older ones the bracket attached on the front of the upswept had a tendency to crack if attached improperly or due to stress but now the position has been changed and the front bracket attaches just at the bazooka fixing point and its a beefier one too.
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But the whole fun in having the upswept is lost if fixed with the down pipe with cat. Although I am not aware of if you can have the new version of upswept with the free flow down pipe.

What shade of desert colour is C5 coming out with!

RE might behead me for giving you this teaser but I can't resist the temptation to share it with you all. Sorry again as I cant post the full picture.
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Old 5th February 2011, 11:09   #1253
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post

But the whole fun in having the upswept is lost if fixed with the down pipe with cat. Although I am not aware of if you can have the new version of upswept with the free flow down pipe.
The one on my bike got fixed 1 month back without the cat. The manager said the one with the cat is not a snug fit..

Is there anyway to stop the big 'pop' sound that comes from the upswept when I decelerate fast. I was conscious enough not to do it quick but in the daily runs its getting quite tough. I'm losing the fun with the pop!!!
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Old 5th February 2011, 12:13   #1254
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Even i was wondering how to get rid of the popping sound in CL500 because it has fuel injectors. It is fairly easily in a bike with carb.
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Old 5th February 2011, 12:27   #1255
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
What shade of desert colour is C5 coming out with!

RE might behead me for giving you this teaser but I can't resist the temptation to share it with you all. Sorry again as I cant post the full picture.
Attachment 495842
Attachment 495843
WOW!! this is total drool maal

Any ideas on release dates?? a friend is going to book the Cl 500 in the next few days. will ask him to book this shade only.
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Old 5th February 2011, 12:43   #1256
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@ desi, i was asking about "older STD type Shocks the ones with bigger pumps" -the regular hydraulic ones. not the gas filled.

Gas shocks in the link also says 'not suitable for classic engine bullets'. They mean Iron engines by the name classic not Uce's.
Renjit the PUMP size of the current STD shockes is very small as compared to the old ones.
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Old 5th February 2011, 13:16   #1257
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Quote:
A very cute looking heat guard is provided to protect your pillion rider from smoking his/her shoes and saving them from reducing the no of shoes from the collection. I really liked it. Very thoughtful and goes with the classic look, quite discreet too.
waah!! i has seen this thingy on one of the bikes that came for service. I thought the owner had made it. Looked nice and very very functional. Is it possible to fit this to the OLD up-swepts? I want one immediately!!

Quote:
On older ones the bracket attached on the front of the upswept had a tendency to crack if attached improperly or due to stress but now the position has been changed and the front bracket attaches just at the bazooka fixing point and its a beefier one too.
Even this modification males sense and am sure it would now be much easy to sweep between the pipes.

Quote:
RE might behead me for giving you this teaser but I can't resist the temptation to share it with you all. Sorry again as I cant post the full picture.
OK, let me spoil the excitement fun here

(Pic courtesy: Rajith)
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Old 5th February 2011, 14:14   #1258
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@Ricky@classic 86- I just put back on my bazooka last week so when I'll put the upswept back on again I will take the pictures to show you the way to eradicate the pooping sound almost 99.9%. Will take only a kitchen foil or coke can to get rid of it.

@Bapu- I am hoping the launch within 6 months.

@Nasir- Yes you can, as this heat shield fits on the stay bolt. Should be available at your dealer but as far as I know it comes with the upswept and they might not sell you only the shield.

Oye you party popper Lets see which picture resembles the C5 desert colour when it comes out. I feel the picture Rajith has posted is quite dark unless its something to do with the angle and light condition when the picture was taken.

Nasir knows how to get rid of pops- kitchen foil works far better then what you and I have tried previously
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Old 5th February 2011, 15:21   #1259
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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
@Ricky@classic 86- I just put back on my bazooka last week so when I'll put the upswept back on again I will take the pictures to show you the way to eradicate the pooping sound almost 99.9%. Will take only a kitchen foil or coke can to get rid of it.
kitchen foil!. Please tell us ASAP. Can we do this on a bike with carb?
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Old 5th February 2011, 19:46   #1260
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Carburator or EFI , you can do it on booth having upswept. There is nothing to tell about and it takes 30 seconds to do it apart from taking the upswept off and putting it back on in your own sweet time. I rather show you the proper way instead of you getting it wrong and blame me for putting you off track with no results. For those who are good with DIY will get me in a single line but for those who are not will benefit from a simple explanation.
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