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Old 16th February 2011, 19:41   #1306
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Can someone let me know from where I can source the fuel pipe for C5? Mine has developed cracks from outside and I just don't want to take any risks. No need to say RE store doesn't have it.
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Old 16th February 2011, 22:36   #1307
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Hemant- Take off the fuel pipe and take it to any auto parts store which deals in car parts. I am sure they will be able to match it with some other alternative and better pipe.
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Old 16th February 2011, 23:31   #1308
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@Classic86- This is for you so that you understand the exact reason for the noise you heard the metal to metal noise after your hard ride in city while still under running in mark of 2k set by RE.

Two C5 pistons having normal to abnormal scuffing marks.

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Scuffing is a term used in automotive industry mostly for the piston slamming its A** on the block. There are plenty of reason for this to happen and giants like Porsche and other invest millions to work on the piston design along with other factors which create this condition.

Manufacturers keep a safe limit for scuffing and apply different types of coating on the piston to avoid any damage to the barrel and piston. RE has done the same on C5 piston by applying a coat to reduce friction and damage.

Mostly we can hear the noise on water cooled engines when the going gets tough and beyond the tolerable limit.

On our C5 we can hear it due to being air cooled and other factors which prompts this condition. Heat factor, piston oil ring clearance is among few of them.

If any one gets to the stage two of piston scuffing as in picture two then you wont need to convince anyone to say you have some metal to metal noise. Your C5 Piston will make its presence felt from 50 meters ahead and it might earn the reputation "Son of Thor".
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Old 17th February 2011, 09:46   #1309
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Randhawa That's a great piece of information bro!!! Thanks again.. Will be more cautious with my ride till at least 2000..
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Old 18th February 2011, 09:23   #1310
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Randhawa

Can we use this system on our bikes??

GaugeFace

It directly connects to the ECU and displays various things such as Speedo, tach, engine temperature, gear indicator and signal indicators.
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Old 19th February 2011, 09:19   #1311
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Smile Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Hi all,

I finally got my C500 after a long 3 month wait,and i must say its a pleasure to ride the beauty,Its my 1st Bull ever since I started riding 6 yrs back and I must say its worth every minute that I wated and every hard earned penny spent,I especially would like to thank you Randhawa for your overwhelming and elaborate review on the bike to start of this thread that gave me the final verdict to provide confidence to myself to go for the C500 (same color too .. Im already done 960 kms with in a span of 15 days as I drove down the Bull from Kerala to Bangalore.It was so tempting me to go faster but i had kept it very well in mind that i dont go over 60km/hr.

Having that being said I find some of the issues that you faced Randhawa towards your beginning (oil leak on the kick start cover,the vibrations at high speeds,tappet noises,brake pedal hitting on steep turns,engine vibrations hitting the shoulders) all are pretty much the same that im facing now,this thread helped a lot in what i need to go forward to resolving these issues,it more like if I have a concern with it I just look on to the pages ...Thanks a ton
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Old 19th February 2011, 09:29   #1312
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Hi all,

I finally got my C500 after a long 3 month wait,and i must say its a pleasure to ride the beauty,Its my 1st Bull ever since I started riding 6 yrs back and I must say its worth every minute that I waited and every hard earned penny spent,I especially would like to thank you Randhawa for your overwhelming and elaborate review on the beast to start of this thread that gave me the final verdict to provide confidence to myself to go for the C500 (same color too .. Im already done 960 kms with in a span of 15 days as I drove down the Bull from Kerala to Bangalore.It was so tempting me to go faster but i had kept it very well in mind that i dont go over 60km/hr.

Having that being said I find some of the issues that you faced Randhawa towards your beginning (oil leak on the kick start cover,the vibrations at high speeds,tappet noises,brake pedal hitting on steep turns,engine vibrations hitting the shoulders) all are pretty much the same that im facing now,this thread helped a lot in what i need to go forward to resolving these issues,its more like if I have a concern with it I just look on to the pages ...Thanks a ton
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Old 19th February 2011, 22:32   #1313
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Classis86- I cant say for sure as not much information is available on Keihin ECU. You need to know what kind of connector the gaugeface uses and protocol to get the info from ECU

But for 12k+ custom duty +PP, its not worth for what it offers. Not of any real benefit, rather spend the same in getting the export model ECU with power commander.

@Epvineesh- Congratulation comrade RE has taken care of the oil leak as it was a manufacturing fault with the kick shaft cover plate so what you see is just the chain oil dripping down. Rest of the issues will get resolved by themselves. It's a RE thing

I think we have covered almost every thing related to C5 day to day running issues but few things still remain which I'll cover in near future.

DIY on resolving popping on upswept
EFI to carb conversion due to lack of mapping gurus for Bulls
Working of gear shifting mechanism on UCE
How to diagnose any rocker/valve related issues
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Old 20th February 2011, 19:11   #1314
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
@Classis86- I cant say for sure as not much information is available on Keihin ECU. You need to know what kind of connector the gaugeface uses and protocol to get the info from ECU

But for 12k+ custom duty +PP, its not worth for what it offers. Not of any real benefit, rather spend the same in getting the export model ECU with power commander.
What are the real advantages of the export model ECU.. Any idea from where I can get that..??
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Old 20th February 2011, 21:17   #1315
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Hi Randhawa,
posting after long time hope everything is well at your end.Mine bull is in real miserable state,i mentioned missing problem in my bike and everytime i went to service manager Mr.Prassana he changed my sparkplugs but now after many verbal exchanges i talked with Mr.Ghisad who is regional service manager in mumbai couldnt still reach to final solution they tried changing sparkplugs,magnet coil,block piston and yesterday even ECU for trial of new bike.During these curent discussion i came across that iam not the only single guy with these problems there are many and every time we get the same reply that company is working on it and will rovide us with final solution meanwhile every 100 kms my saprkplugs are changed from company now the ones which are been but are BOSCH PLATINUM PLUS in my bike they arent ready to understand that there's no issue of sparkplugs they only say that are looking why there's carbon deposition on sparkplugs so often with short trip.
so i emailed to service head and company mentioning my problem,iam attaching it here-
Sir,
Regards hoping all is well at your end because iam fed up and this email
will surely indicate my phase of mind. According to your claim you made
me calm down that this is the final step or rather action that you're
going to take and my bike will be all well and no more consistent
problem with it.I regretfully have to say that all claims made by you
were false and again the missing problem has started with my bike.Sir
tell me one thing what is my fault in this matter?is it so that I
trusted an age old company Royal Enfield and bought its top end
product.Sir I paid a hefty amount of 1,43,000 for tension and hassle
free ride not for these troublesome ride.From the very begining the
problem started and till date as of february the problem is not
sorted,if I compare the situation my car is giving me more average than
my bike which is stuck to 17-18 Km/ltrs on the highest side.Sir now my
patience has become my vein coz every time I talk with you or Mr.Ghisad
I get a formal reply that the matter is looked into whereas iam still
standing on the same path where I bought my bike first day.I still not
understand a billion dollar company giving me unsatisfactory answers all
the time,which is making me shame that iam no one in front of the
company as no one is really working into,for the sake to calm me down
every time the sparkplug is been changed but no permanent solution!I
come from non-technical background but still explaining the problem with
fuel injection and technical company not getting into the cause is damn
serious!Sir I kept your words for the last time and found my self to be
a fool where only sparkplugs are going to change but no permanent
solution to it.I now have made up my mind to move to court as its enough
on my side and my money does matter to me if its not well invested into
hassle free ride and sir I have no way invested my money in the bike
which has become a "Experimental Vehicle for you".I bought the bike for
me not for the company or for dealer as it almost stands at the workshop
rather of my ownership.Sir this my final reply to the situation and if
iam not contacted by you with permanent solution in couple of days then
my lawyer will take the matter into his hands and will help to fight for
me for my rights and as a socialite person I have all the rights to tell
the future buyers the exact situation which will not be liked by the
company and declining sales figure of the top-end product.So sir hoping
that this email is eye-opner of the top end execs of your Company or
forcefully. Legal aspect will have to do so. The current spark
plug(WR8DP) after 600 kms is also exhausted and find no fault with it
whereas the main fault lies is with ECU,praying to god that might this
email be a eyeopner and doesn't spoil a customer-company relationship.
the reply which i got is-
We are in receipt of your mail and regret to note the problems on your
Royal Enfield Motorcycle as stated by you.

Please be advised that through a copy of this mail we are advising our
Regional Office, address as given below, to get in touch with you
immediately to assess what problems are being faced by you and to set
right the same to your entire satisfaction.

Mr.S.S.Ghisad - Regional Service Manager located at Mumbai office
(Contact No.09819478902) It will be our endeavour to ensure that you
have years of riding pleasure on our Royal Enfield Motorcycle.

Thanking you and assuring you of our best attention at all times.

Thanks & Regards
K.Ramalingam


whereas i already mentioned in email that iam in constant touch with Mr.Ghisad.They arent still with any solution why there's carbon deposition on sparkplug so soon with short ride of 20-30 kms.Then Mr.Ghisad stated that company is planning to remap ECU of all are vehicles but then they stated the samples that they collected were fine and no need to remap finally yesterday they changed my ECU and cleaned my PAV(Pulse Air Valve) and plugs.But then after my bike started missfiring and again in morning within 6kms ride carbon was deposited on plugs.Buddy iam really fedup on my side as iam talking with each and every guy from RE service and they are just fooling me out by saying they are looking into this matter as they have many more bikes with similar problem.
Till that i met my lawyer and have planned to send them a legal notice so atleast they will have to give factual reason because i tried every possible way to convince them there's something else which is creating problem not the spsrkplugs but every time they change it and say yes they are working on it iam jut frustrated of this reply.Hoping not irritating you
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Old 20th February 2011, 22:10   #1316
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@ Randhawa :- Thanks mate for the info,i was concerned that ill have to get the kick shaft removed and sealed again.

@ pratikjammy87 :- Sorry to hear a disheartening experience from you Bull and the dealers of course,In my opinion why don't you try to get in touch with the Head Office in Chennai to explain your issue,I have heard that they are very responsive to their customers ...at least that's what i have heard from couple of my friends.
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Old 20th February 2011, 22:58   #1317
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Classic86- The real advantage of export ECU is the O2 sensor which you can use with it to reduce the excess carbon deposit and short plugs during winters.

@Pratik-It's sad to hear from you after a long time with the same existing problem.

The reason they will not give you a honest reply because they do not want to admit officially the problem with the bike due to the fact that they do not want to do a recall and get into trouble due to cost reason.


Few thing I would like to say about the blackening of the plugs-

1.There is nothing RE can or will do because the solution of the problem is not cheap which involves remapping and adding an O2 sensor.
2. Blackening of the plugs is inevitable, it just takes one cold start to get the plugs sooted and riding more then 30km is the only way to get the plugs back to normal condition but its mostly in winters. To you it might appear to be black in a short trip of 20-30km but during that time the plugs start to get cleaned after 6km.
3. Plugs on C5 will never be in same colour compared to C3 if thats what you are expecting. But the condition does improves in summers.

Few things I need to know from you.
1.Did they every checked or replaced the ignition coil?
2.Inspect the wiring, sensors with a multimeter and the ignition switch?
3.Ever checked the fuel injector/ fuel pump or replaced it?

Do you warm up the engine at least for 3 minutes on cold starts?

From what I feel so far with your problem and what I make of it is-

1. You are among the rest of us who have experienced the sooting of the plugs but may be you have not learned to live with it/ accepted the issue knowing RE does not gives a darn to resolve it or learned the way to avoid it by warming up the engine before you move on cold starts and avoid short trips. Ride 50-100km in one trip on weekends which I know is not feasible for everyone.

2. Or you really have a problem regarding missing apart from sooting of the plugs and its not related to the just the sooted plugs but fouled plugs which RE has shown it's incompetency to diagnose it so far.

If you feel point 2 above fits you then please do one last check apart from what I want to know regarding the rest of the checks carried out or not.

As you have never mentioned if RE ever checked the cylinder head- remove the cylinder head and do a leak test on the valves. It is done by inverting the head and filling up the head with petrol and observe if there are any bubbles coming out near the valve seating or any trace of petrol in the Inlet and Exhaust port. Also get the valve to guide clearance checked which I think they wont be able to do so just check it by hand by removing the valve springs and feel for any sideways movement of valves in the guide.

Sometimes I feel frustrated when people like you have problems which RE has not been able to resolve while I am unable to help due to location. If you can ever make it to Chandigarh I would love to resolve your problem.

Rest is up to you how you take it further and if you say you are not alone in this then better get in touch with other people who have the missing problem and file a joint complaint/petition against RE.

Last edited by Randhawa : 20th February 2011 at 23:03.
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Old 21st February 2011, 02:37   #1318
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

I don't know if his misfiring is thanks to the sooting of the plug which you guys have been seeing in the north. He's in Indore, and it is never really very cold there. And he has been having this issue for the past few months.
Isn't RE bound under any warranty conditions?
@Pratik
+1 to the advise on warming the engine a bit before you drive off. Longer drives at decent speeds will help you lose a lot of the carbon deposits. Maybe you can take it out the Dewas naka side and drive to Pithampur. Let us know if the misfires decrease post a long fast ride. Also, if possible click a picture of the plugs right after the fast/long part (i.e. before you enter the city).
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Old 22nd February 2011, 10:52   #1319
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@ Randhawa : It has been 1 year since I got my C5. It has done a meagre mileage of just above 7000 kms. I wanted to make sure that everything is fine with my bike before it goes out of warranty and hence gave it to my dealer to rectify the following issues.

1) To correct Excessive dive of front forks (I am told each leg had 130 and 150 ml of oil only as against 195 ml given in the manual. They filled 190 ml in each (charged me for that oil, is it correct) and I am happy with the results.

2) Neither of the two brakes, front disk and rear drum brakes had any "bite" in them, and I did not feel confident in hard braking. Action taken cleaned the brake pads. Result according to me is ZERO, they still feel spongy rather than progressive.

3) Gear shifting: My gear shifter lever has excessive throw/play as compared to other bikes. And though upshifting is smooth most of the times, but in downshifting gears get entangled and do not shift smoothly. Action taken replaced the clutch friction plates (they said they were burnt !!!!!). Result Zero. It is exactly the same situation.
And also, the clutch lever engages very high (almost when it is nearing full release). Is this the way clutch release on all C5s. So I am told. I think this could be the reason for the burnt plates, as I am very sure of my correct riding habbits.

4) They have fused my high beam during service. Would it be chargeable to me....??

What should I do to correct the above situations.....any suggestions....the bike was with the dealer for more than 15 days..........!!!! Urgent response would be much appreciated. Especially about the gears and the brakes.

P.S. they have inserted two packing rings between the head and the bend pipe and hence the bend pipe does not seat fully in the head as it did earlier......they worked on it to replace my upswept under warranty.....The bike has foul burning odour near the right side of the engine.........!! could it be that the packings have not seated correctly and are buring away.......or something else....All thanks for your help. Cheers Man.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 17:25   #1320
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Bradhey- Little while ago I had mentioned few things to be carried out after 10k and some things which still need to be carried out regardless of mileage is;

!. Fork oil change
2. Brake fluid change
3. Air filter

I am glad you are happy with the front forks now. As I had experienced the same, oil was not up to the mark or same level on booth. 190 would take care of diving on front brake now.

Lot of peeps have complained about too sharp bite or spongy bite on front/rear.

Reasons

For front break.

There are few reason for that. When the pads become rough and the disc gets rusted because of less or non usage/parked for long.

Old brake fluid which has lost its quality/viscosity

Moisture or adulterated oil with corroded particles from rubber hose or master cylinder.

When the hose expands too much and the walls can not retain its elasticity which happens mostly in summers.

For rear break.

Cushion rubbers gone AWAL and brake poorly adjusted. OEM brake shoes from factory are smaller in length by 1 inch so they provide less friction surface for better braking

Cure

For front

Get a braided hose if you want to get rid of the change of behaviour from crisp to spongy or vice versa.

Service the master cylinder and replace brake fluid

For rear

Change the cushion rubbers on rear hub and if brake shoes worn out then replace them too.




Just service the master cylinder and replace the brake fluid every 10k or 1 year which ever comes first but not necessarily for fork oil if you get it done for the first time as now you know too the incompetency of RE to even fill up with correct oil levels from factory. Too much for their quality control which they highly speak off.

After you get the brake oil changed and clean the master cylinder, you will have crisp and not sharp braking. You will love your brakes specially with the right amount of oil in forks.


For your gear shifting issue, I need to know how much free play you have at the clutch lever(without actually engaging the clutch or how loose is the clutch lever) refer to manual for clutch play at lever but not what they suggest. Also you gear shifting and clutch usage style.

With their theory of burnt burnt pressure plates which I don't buy because I have done more hard riding then you would have and at 21k the clutch and pressure plates are just like new but if you were slipping the clutch too much because of the incorrect clutch play adjustment or riding style then there is a possibility. Did you ever felt any judders during gear shiftings ?


They have inserted two exhaust gasket because they have used UCE 350 gaskets and not of UCE 500. Thats why its not sitting properly. C5 exhaust gasket is in short supply and I have been waiting for it for over two months. Although I used some jugaad( flour) to seal the burnt gasket and apart from smelling of burnt chapattis for over an hour, all is well and sealed just like new.

There is a technique to fit the down pipe flange on to the head but not always required because its only needed if the studs on the head where the ex-flange bolts on to are bent slightly.

So in your case they have used incorrect exhaust gasket and not fitted the down pipe correctly hence the lovely odour of ashes to ashes. Tell them to get you the C5 gasket instead of two incorrect size C3 gaskets.


@epvineesh- Taking out the kick shaft means splitting the complete engine into two

@Achint- If I didn't go in depth of sooting problem and learned to avoid it and improvised then till now I would have been complaining of misfires and fouled plugs. I have learned to live with it and take care of the carbon my way.

Still there is something which I could not escape the consequences of rich mixture issue and excess carbon deposit was the leaking intake valve which was causing poor mileage under 22km/l and hesitation/ misfires. I took care of it by going for a 400km trip at full blast 120(1.15hrs)-140(.45hrs) non stop for 200km one side with premium fuel. It cleaned itself out as I always say, it's RE magic of self healing.

As more and more people are piling miles on C5, soon enough you will find people complaining of misfires/hesitation and poor mileage. Who have listened to me in past will avoid it and those who haven't will have problems.

C5 needs to be ripped from time to time hardcore, just to keep it healthy and thats the beauty of it. It will perform flawlessly if done that way and oil changed at every 3k thats all it wants.

As per RE warranty is concerned and they are sued over it. What happens if RE proves that if you follow proper startup procedure you can avoid said conditions. We can realistically get something out of RE only if we file a joint petition with backed up technical support.

Last edited by Randhawa : 22nd February 2011 at 17:30.
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