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Old 22nd February 2011, 23:19   #1321
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

I don't have much experience with the C5, but for any C350 rider I will just reiterate this point: Rip 'er from time to time, else it will start acting up.

It feels like bloody murder initially, but just power through it.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 12:38   #1322
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Randhawa thanks for your feedback. I'll take care of the brake fluid change and let you know my findings.

Meanwhile on gear shifting:

A) Free play at the lever: Compared to my other motorcycles, the clutch engages very high up. In other words just about when the lever is almost nearing full release.......whereas in case of all my other bikes, the clutch would enage as soon as the lever is half released.....I brought this to the notice of the mechanics but they say, it is an inhenrent problem with the C5.

B) Gear Shifting & Clutch usage: Gears are shifted at correct RPMs for upshifting as well as downshifting. I do not lug in higher gears no matter what the situation may be. Most downshifting is completed before coasting to a complete stop, except of the first gear which is always shifted from neutral or from rest. I have never had any judders while shifting.

Clutch is used only to change gears else I keep my hands off it. And if I have to stop more than 10 seconds, I'll shift the bike into neutral.

The upshifting is very smooth except for very occassional hard shift between 4th to 5th. The downshifting is not smooth, and its like something gets stuck (in all gears except 2nd to 1st). But it is not like a bajaj scooter either, which makes a "khatar khatar sound" with judders if its clutch drags. But at times the gears downshift quite well as well............In my opinion there is one particular part in the shifting mechanism that is not doing its job well........

I compared the above with another C5. Which had a very precise shifter more or less like a honda bike, as compared to mine which has more play in the shifter. The downshift especially during hard braking was fantastic everytime on the test bike, as compared to mine which gets sought of stuck and needs to be hit hard rather than a light tap on the shifter lever.
This could also explain why the bike would slip out of gear earlier on hitting a speed braker. Though I have not experienced this issue since long.

Thats about all I can share with you. I would appreciate if you may let me know what to check to rectify the situation. I am short on time as my bike is soon going to be out of warranty. Thanks for your time.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 14:03   #1323
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Just try one thing please, as I feel your clutch is too tight. Loosen up the clutch play at the lever at least 6mm from the adjuster on the LH side engine cover.

Gor for a ride and let me know by evening of your gear changes if any improvement you felt.

Rest I'll explain later in the evening.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 14:24   #1324
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Just try one thing please, as I feel your clutch is too tight. Loosen up the clutch play at the lever at least 6mm from the adjuster on the LH side engine cover.

Gor for a ride and let me know by evening of your gear changes if any improvement you felt.

Rest I'll explain later in the evening.
I would not be able to give you my feedback until tomorrow morning, as I rode my other bullet to work today. But don't you think a loose clutch would drag and make the shifting even more difficult....... Second....how do you think I can correct the exessive play/throw of the gear shifter lever ????
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Old 23rd February 2011, 14:43   #1325
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradhey View Post
I would not be able to give you my feedback until tomorrow morning, as I rode my other bullet to work today. But don't you think a loose clutch would drag and make the shifting even more difficult....... Second....how do you think I can correct the exessive play/throw of the gear shifter lever ????
Hey friend, by increasing the free play of your clutch lever, the clutch plates will engage more firmly. Adjust to the point that the clutch engages around half way on releasing the lever. You can adjust the free play by adjusting the barrel nut on the LHS engine casing. Did this on Randhawa's advice on my friends bike and got positive results. It seems that REBs don't like to be shifted down from 5th to 2nd abruptly with the clutch disengaged. Shift down and release the clutch, disengage and shift down progressively and it is found that gears shift more correct and smooth.
Regards Adrian

Last edited by adrian : 23rd February 2011 at 14:46.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 15:04   #1326
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Hey Randhawa,

FOr the last 2-3 months i was running on the upswept. Last week, i got the goldie back from chrome plating and installed it on the bike. Since installing the goldie, the bike is giving very pronounced jerks in 1/2/3 gear at lower speed of 10-50 kmph. On the upswept also at time i use to feel these jersk, but with the goldie ON, the jerks have increased 10 folded, to a point where its started bothering me. There are NO jerks when i accelerate. Jerks are only felt when the throttle is held at a low speed position. The feel is similar when the carbed bike gets to reserve, but the jerks on my C5 are even more pronounced.

ANother observation i made was that when the clutch is slightly pressed during motion, there are no jerks felt. As i fully release the clutch, the jerks comes back.

What do you think could be the reason behind this. How is goldie related to these jerks? Why is it that a little use of clutch eliminated the issue?

Do you think a fuel system cleaner like valvoline would help the cause?

:(
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Old 23rd February 2011, 22:17   #1327
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

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Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
got the goldie back from chrome plating and installed it on the bike.
but can I request for sound clip with the goldie on..
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Old 23rd February 2011, 22:41   #1328
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

hi Randhawa,
The move or eighter to be precise the action taken by company is that the ECU is been replaced, missing problem was resolved but the problem of misfiring evolved which is been sorted by setting the RPM to 1000.Then after iam not facing issue of misfiring and missing its only bike shutsoff and have to start as rpm is set to low.Regarding the intake valve i've pressurized company for it and they are working on it tomorrow one question was your carbon/fuel efficiency resolved and is there lesser amount of deposition or completely eradicated?
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Old 24th February 2011, 00:17   #1329
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Bradhey-Loose clutch? You are confusing with how it works. When we say loose clutch or tight clutch does not means it's actually clutch which is loose or tight. It's to do with the clutch operating lever assembly through which engages/disengages the clutch. So adjusting the clutch cable actually adjust the through length which the clutch operating lever assembly puts on the clutch assembly to engage or disengage.

Problem with UCE clutch is that when the clutch plates are depressed too much(when clutch lever play is too less) it does not engages properly nor does it releases properly which effects the shifting. It just needs a little bit of push to work flawlessly hence I say more play in clutch lever will depress the clutch plates to the right amount required to work efficiently.

Just give you an example from a car clutch plates assembly so try to make some sense from my lay man terms. If you have ever seen a pressure plate of a car gearbox then you would remember the thin point fingers in the middle of the pressure plates. When we apply clutch, a thrust bearing pushes the fingers in turn pushing the whole pressure plates forward. Now some people have a habit of keeping the clutch paddle shoved to the ground for a long time while idling or even doing so while engaging which damages the fingers and disturbing the working of the pressure plates which results in juddering.


You will be doing the same thing when depressing the clutch on C5 too much with too less play at clutch lever.

Remember when I said a while ago about the gear shifting issue on C5 lies with the proper engagement of the clutch plates and nothing much to do with the gear shifting mechanism itself!

You should get the Auto chain tensioner checked by removing the LH side cover just to rule out any access primary chain play resulting in poor shifting. There are other ways to check this out too and one of them is quite simple which involves nothing accept observing a simple noise.

While downshifting 4-3-2 at speed around 60 and reducing, listen for any khrruch or grinding kind of noise from the transmission. If you hear it then just change the cushion rubber in the rear hub, tighten the secondary chain and again repeat the above downshifting. If you still hear it then get the auto chain tensioner checked by opening up the LH side cover.

That way you will eliminate any doubts and get to the real cause. Any play in the primary chain to loose chain and play in cushion rubber will cause gear shifting issues along with right amount of clutch cable play will help to improve it.

Thing is that all these small things works in unison and anything a bit off disrupts the whole shifting shebang.


If you still have problems then clutch springs and the whole clutch housing assembly needs to be checked.


Now with your too much gear lever play. Is the lever on your bike placed horizontally? Reason I am asking is that if its not then it will relate to more movement required to engage gears. Over 1 inch play in the gear lever is normal.

But you insist in knowing more and if you can get these checked then look at the pictures below. That is if the play is more then 1 inch and the lever is placed horizontally(correct position).

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You would need to get the RH side cover removed to inspect two things to check for access play of the gear lever. Look at the first picture and check the points labeled A,B in the picture. If there is any abnormal play or wear in these two places then you have your answer. Any well trained mechanic our even yourself would be able to make out the excess play by observing the two parts while engaging the gear lever. If there isn't much play there and the mechanism seem to be fine at those points then the problem is inside and I am afraid you would need to open up the engine.

In picture 2. Check if you have the black coloured bush on the gear lever shaft too. Absence of this part has been found on few new bikes from factory but yours was inspected earlier so don't think you will have a missing bush.


Now to recap with resolving the issue step by step, follow few easy steps.

Start with;
1. Change the rear cushion rubbers(Rs80). With me it doesn't last more then 3k
2. Rear chain adjustment
3. Procedure to check any play in primary chain by the above said method or manually check the auto chain tensioner by removing the LH side cover
4. 5-6mm play in the clutch lever(you have judder while shifting, means- you have too tight clutch cable)

Then go to RH side cover and inspect the other two bits. Last option is to split the engine. Nothing else can be done. But I still say you wont need the last option as your problem exist but never remains consistent because the unison among the other bits breaks and you get issues.


If you have mentioned the gear shifting problem on paper to RE then surely they should sort it out regardless of warranty time.

@Nasir- I did mentioned to get the head de-carbonized. Did you got it done?

Ok, few questions for you.

After putting the goldie on, did you filled(fuel) her up?
Cleaned or adjusted the the spark plugs, if so then how long back?
Washed her lately?
Cleaned your K&N?


How much is your clutch lever play? When you press clutch slightly, does it increases rpm?. I am not clear by slightly press and fully release clutch, are they done separately or in one action.

You are not lugging are you when you feel the jerks? I believe you got the rear cushion rubbers replaced!


Don't know about valvoline but personally recommend STP fuel injector cleaner and de-carbonizer. Yes it will work wonders or simply get some premium IBP petrol, take a long stretch and just whack it mercilessly for 100km at least.


Three more new upgrades to C5

To the fuel tank rear mounting
Tool kit relocated to the electrical box
Rear wiring loom rerouted.

Will update later with pictures.



@Pratik- Something does not sound right. Low RPM has nothing to do with misfiring. I can set RPM on my bike to 700 just like any CI and I never had any problem. UCE does have high idling RPM which is set to 1000-1050RPM. If they set the RPM at 1000 and still engine shutting off and they say its because the rpm is low then they royally f***** up. I don't think they have a lead but if you get the valves checked then you might be able to resolve your problem.

Last edited by Randhawa : 24th February 2011 at 00:37.
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Old 24th February 2011, 10:50   #1330
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Randhawa thanks for all the detailed explanation with pictures. Much appreicate your help. Today I slackened the clutch cable to about 4-5 mm of free play.

Honestly speaking the smoothness of upshifting has gone down very slightly, but downshifting was slightly better today. I would like to ride more to be sure of about these findings as the bike generally changes its characteristics day to day

Wish you well...... thanks again.
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Old 24th February 2011, 12:34   #1331
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

The dealership has also ordered the striker (part no. 3) in your photo, to replace the existing one, suspecting this may not be functioning correctly. Any advise.......??

What is the function of the spring (part no. 4) in the photo....?? Thanks
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Old 24th February 2011, 12:39   #1332
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Thanks sire.

@Nasir- I did mentioned to get the head de-carbonized. Did you got it done?

Missed it. Will STP fule injector cleaner clean the injection system and de-carbonize also? or do i have to take the bike to service station for de-carbonising?

Ok, few questions for you.

After putting the goldie on, did you filled(fuel) her up?
No, am atill running on the fuel filled before the goldie was installed.

Cleaned or adjusted the the spark plugs, if so then how long back?
Spark plugs were supposedly cleaned during the last service, about 1.2 months back. I did not personally see it being cleaned.


Washed her lately?
There was a heavy off-season downpour here in Bangalore a few days back and the bike was parked in the open. Got totally wet. apart from that, no spray wash, only dusting and wet wiping since last service about 1.2 months back.

Cleaned your K&N?
I has asked the service guys not to fiddle with the K&N. Immediately after the service, i had cleaned it myself by dusting and blowing the filter with the help of my cycle pump. Not much dust, the filter seemed clean only. This was about 1.2 months back.


How much is your clutch lever play? When you press clutch slightly, does it increases rpm?. I am not clear by slightly press and fully release clutch, are they done separately or in one action.
Clutch lever play is very less (3-4 mm). With very slight press of lever, the clutch seems to get engaged. Did not notice any increase in RMP with slight press of clutch. I usually use the clutch only while changing gears. With this issue of jerks, i noticed that when the clutch lever is not pressed at all, the jerks as described previously, are very much present. When i slightly press the clutch lever, the jerks seem to vanish/greatly reduce.



You are not lugging are you when you feel the jerks? I believe you got the rear cushion rubbers replaced!

NOT AT ALL. These jerks are also felt in 1st gear, where we dont really have scope of lugging. infact the jerks are very prominent during the 1st/2nd and 3rd gear, at lower speeds of 10-40 kmph. i make sure there is always enought fuel in the tank.


Don't know about valvoline but personally recommend STP fuel injector cleaner and de-carbonizer. Yes it will work wonders or simply get some premium IBP petrol, take a long stretch and just whack it mercilessly for 100km at least.

Shall hunt for STP fuel injector cleaner. Any specific model no i look for? is it commonly available? whay quantity do i buy and how do i use it?

Infact, just the day before i installed the goldie last week, i had gone for a 120 kms ride with upswept. Thats the ride where i hit my personal top speed of 135 kmph on the speedo. i was typically doing 90-100 through out the ride.

Last edited by nasirkaka : 24th February 2011 at 12:40.
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Old 24th February 2011, 18:02   #1333
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Bradhey- Give some more play a couple of mm's, it wont hurt. As I said earlier, you need to adjust to the bikes riding style and bike wont adjust to yours. With more play in the lever just adjust to using half clutch action and not pull back the lever to the bottom.

Also if you delay changing gears while pressing the clutch you will again have a notch y gear shifting.

Spring no 4 is to provide tension on your gear lever shaft. I am talking about the free up/down movement without changing the gear.

I had explained you earlier about the cam plate and striker relationship either on here or the US forum. Go through that. But if they have ordered the striker then they should order the cam plate as well, otherwise no point of opening up the engine just for the striker. Yes your engine will be split into two to change the striker or cam plate.

Job of striker is basically to keep the gear(cam plate) in place so the gear stays on the lay shaft in position and does not runs around.

But RE should be able to diagnose it without opening up the engine by checking out the two things I mentioned about in the above post.

@Nasir- This is all you need and its better in long run too. Instruction are provided for the right amount to be added to the fuel. STP Complete Fuel System Cleaner for Petrol Engines - STP UK


Regarding your K&N clean up, dusting and blowing is not the way to clean the K&N. Do it properly.

If the head has never been opened then leave it as it is unless you trust a single mechanic in the workshop. reason I am saying is when you fit the head back on, one needs to be very careful with fitting the rockers back on and they should match the exact facing or position of the rocker arm on the valve and properly align the push rod.

Why? The simple logical reason behind this to not to disturb the up/down movement angle of the valve, if disturbed then the rocker arm will not exert force to push down the valve at right angle or I should say the rocker arm bottom if not sitting flush with the valve stem tip then it will exert pressure at wrong angle and not on the centre of the valve stem tip resulting in damage to valve terrain in long run.

My lay man explanation- When you use a screwdriver to loosen a bolt, you exert force perpendicularly and the screwdriver stays that ways without dancing around but if you apply force from any other angle on the screwdriver then it slips to any other direction rather then staying perpendicular. This is what happens when force is applied to the valve when angle of force is changed and its starts exerting too much pressure on one side of the valve guide resulting in more wear and tear.

Consequences are;

Play in the valve guide which will result in damage to valve seating in head creating performance loss, damaging the valve and other performance related problem apart from a rattly valve terrain.

Excess wear and tear of rocker arm and rocker bearing housings again resulting in rattly valve terrain.

Worse part is the cost factor. Just a set of inlet/exhaust rockers with the complete set of the rocker bearings cost around Rs 4000.

Long run means any mileage of 10k to 15k.

Increase the free play on the clutch lever a bit more. Are the jerks only on same speed or while accelerating and decelerating also? Is it a jerk/shudder or judder?

If its the later then get the cushion rubber checked along with swing arm bushes. Get the bushes removed completely to check and not just by moving the swing arm sideways for checking any side play.

There is probability that moisture got into the tank so ride a bit more in reserve fuel and then top up.

Let me know after you get these carried out;
Get the cushion rubber checked along with the swing arm bushes
Top up the tank with more fuel
Increase in clutch lever play
Clean the K&N the way it should be cleaned

Last edited by Randhawa : 24th February 2011 at 18:11.
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Old 24th February 2011, 19:10   #1334
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

hi randhawa,
i took my bike to workshop today for checking intake valve during the process i didnt find any major leakage but still the mechanic said that he will do lapping and then fix the engine back but the carbon deposition was at its peak after only ODO of 3320 kms so for reference iam attaching the images of valve.So whats your take on it what should i do now? last image is after cleaning it like hell :P
Attached Thumbnails
The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-img2011022400047.jpg  

The Royal Enfield 500 Classic thread!-img2011022400053.jpg  

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Old 24th February 2011, 19:11   #1335
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Randhwa,

How easy/difficult to increase the RPM of the bike? And is there any imact if I do DIY. Recently after changing plugs (WQR8DC 986, UR6DC 992) my bike's rpm went down (my guess). Sometimes if I press clutch while riding the bike stalls. It also takes 2-4 cranks in the morning to fire up. It use to just take 1 crank in the morning earlier.
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