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Old 1st March 2011, 12:33   #1366
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Is there any simple way to findout the exact idling rmp on a C5?


A few things:

Usually in the morning when i ES the bike, the auto decomp sound remains for about 1.5 - 2 minutes, before the engine warms up enough.

Today in the morning, as i pressed the ES, bike roared to life, and there was NO auto-decomp 'tik-tik' at all. The bike just came to life and idling RMP was high enough to overrule the auto-decomp sound. Is this good or bad? If the Idling RMP is high, wont it make the bike run rich, producing more carbon, hence associated problems?

Another observation i made was, when the bike is in neutral, the idling RMP sounds fast, and when i put her in gear and move forward, the RPM decreases, again when i stop and go to neutral, the RPM rises.

I also wanted to understand how the EFI works with respect to carburettor. The carburettor had two jets, pilot for idling, and main for throttle. so changing the idling RMP on a carbed bike meant playing around with only the pilot jet. How does this co-relate to a fuel injection system..?
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Old 1st March 2011, 13:47   #1367
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

My motorcycle has a foul burning odour from the right side of the engine near the exhaust on the head......I think the service centre did not set the exhaust washer carefully, making it literally burn by the hot gases....there is no exhaust leak so far.

Randhawa is there anything else I need to check here......????

Last edited by bradhey : 1st March 2011 at 13:48.
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Old 1st March 2011, 15:12   #1368
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Nasir- Only sure way of checking RPM is tachometer which your RE workshop should have one.

I think RPM on your bike is still a bit high again adjust a bit till you feel comfortable or the RPM does not decrease much in gear.

I had explained about the tic-tic of auto de-comp in detail about what conditions effects the proper working of the auto de-comp. That was quite a while ago, search the thread to get some insight into this.

A little higher RPM is still better then tic-tic of auto d because when auto d is doing its thing, it is also lowering the compression and not allowing for a proper combustion due to decrease in compression.

We cant co-relate much between the two because they have different fundamentals of working. But to get the idle right booth the carb and EFI on C5 has an idling screw. Usually idling on EFI equipped vehicle is done electronically which is electronic solenoid controlling the air passage when the butterfly is in closed position.

On carb I think the idling is not controlled by the pilot jet instead its controlled by the idling screw which controls the air to bypass the closed butterfly valve. Among the two jets in the carb, one is used only up to certain rpm and second one is used at higher rpm. Obviously if you will go with a smaller main jet not recommended by the company then you will get a leaner mixture hence lowering the rpm too but you won't be able to adjust the rpm correctly with that.

So what really controls the idling rpm on our C5 is the idle screw which should have been controlled by a electronic solenoid. As a certain limit is set on the ECU map to provide a basic mixture depending upon the feedback from different sensors e.g. temp sensor, MAP sensor, pulse sensor for taking the rpm and crank position. ECU acts with what parameters are stored on the map.

Older bikes used to have either point or CDI ignition and our C3 has TCI ignition which means you can also adjust the timing to get the idling right. Remember how the mechanics used to set the rpm right on maruti's not just by playing with the idling screw but also with the distributor by retarding or advancing the timing.


Now from all this I remembered another thing. Mostly lot of people complain or have issues with idling for instance you, me and others. What I had forgotten is that when our bikes have done 10k plus, throttle body needs to be cleaned. Because a dirty throttle body changes the idling or to be precise the bypass for idling air mixture passage gets dirty and we need to keep adjusting the idling. Same needs to be done with vehicles equipped with electronic idling control. Their idling control valve (ICV) needs to be cleaned from time to time.

So if you want to get back to your factory idling setting then clean the TB properly. If you want to DIY then I'll do a write up for that.


@Bradhey- Have they got the C5 exhaust packing by now if they have then get the existing ones replaced by a new one.

It shouldn't be stinking till now but you never know. Do have a look around to make sure there is no oil leaking around the head. Sometimes a plastic bag can get stuck on a hot exhaust too which smells bad. Do make sure you don't have a plastic bag stuck on the exhaust.

Last edited by Randhawa : 1st March 2011 at 15:33.
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Old 1st March 2011, 15:50   #1369
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Yes sire. things are much clearer now.

I do remember your pics of the throttle body before and after cleaning, and am sure it would make a good amount of difference.

The issue is i am not confident if i can do the servicing for the throttle body it myself. Looks a bit complicated. On the otherhand, i cant replay of RE mechanics also. So, if its not a big trouble for you to explain how to clean the throttle body, i could try and give it an attempt, and it would be helpful for the community as well.
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Old 1st March 2011, 16:11   #1370
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Its very doable DIY. One just needs to be tidy with hands and not clumsy plus some common sense then any thing is DIY. You just need a toothbrush/ WD40 and some brake fluid or carb cleaner, thats all you need Would you prefer a video tutorial or a writeup ?
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Old 1st March 2011, 16:17   #1371
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
@Hemant look at page 22.
So I was wrong. In your pic I thought the screw (with yellow dot) that is just adjacent to flywheel is the idle screw. What's the use of that screw, I think that can be also used for setting idle.
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Old 1st March 2011, 16:33   #1372
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
@Nasir-

I had explained about the tic-tic of auto de-comp in detail about what conditions effects the proper working of the auto de-comp. That was quite a while ago, search the thread to get some insight into this.

A little higher RPM is still better then tic-tic of auto d because when auto d is doing its thing, it is also lowering the compression and not allowing for a proper combustion due to decrease in compression.

[ .
@Randhawa and other experts, The auto decomp is sure a pest for a couple of miles during the first ride in the morning killing the engine at signal lamps.

1. Is there any possibility of converting the auto decomp to manual type as seen in CI bulls?
2. If not possible, what are the cons of saying good bye to the auto decomp valve ?
Regards Adrian
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Old 1st March 2011, 17:11   #1373
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Its very doable DIY. One just needs to be tidy with hands and not clumsy plus some common sense then any thing is DIY. You just need a toothbrush/ WD40 and some brake fluid or carb cleaner, thats all you need Would you prefer a video tutorial or a writeup ?
WOW.. anything option you feel would give less chances for an error. A write up with some pics would be ideal.
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Old 1st March 2011, 18:31   #1374
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian View Post
@Randhawa and other experts, The auto decomp is sure a pest for a couple of miles during the first ride in the morning killing the engine at signal lamps.

1. Is there any possibility of converting the auto decomp to manual type as seen in CI bulls?
2. If not possible, what are the cons of saying good bye to the auto decomp valve ?
Regards Adrian
Hi,
The Auto Decompressor ( if working properly ) should disengage at 800 RPM. Assuming that the idle on your C5 is set at the recommended 1000 RPM , the autodecompressor will be disengaged once the bike is idling properly.If not , please recheck the idle RPM when cold and also inspect the auto de-compression mechanism for play or jamming. Manual decompression is not a possibility as the head does not have a decompression valve -> exhaust bypass. You could design and fit a cable operated system in the plug hole for the secondary spark plug but where will you vent the decompression gases? Getting rid of the system means that the self start motor will be under extreme load , reducing battery and self motor life. Back-kicks will trash your sprag clutch assembly and the kick start will be so hard , you wouldn't be able to start it easily.
Regards
Naren
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Old 1st March 2011, 21:23   #1375
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Hemant -Theoretically you can but technically you should not. Plenty of reasons but I wont go into this now. If you ever observe the inside of the TB then you will understand why.

@Adrian- I could have not said it better and Naren has explained it all and precisely. Just to add a bit more, theoretically its 300rpm when auto de-comp should shut off but in real world/ practical conditions its 800rpm when it actually shuts off.

@Nasir- Give me some time then I'll do the writeup after I get the head sorted.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 08:25   #1376
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Anyone having any issues with the air filter compartment lid coming open after you ride a lil bit at high speeds?,my came of the 3rd time today :(
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Old 2nd March 2011, 11:16   #1377
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by epvineesh View Post
Anyone having any issues with the air filter compartment lid coming open after you ride a lil bit at high speeds?,my came of the 3rd time today :(
Though I have never experienced this, but it looks like a minor adjustment with the lock. If in warranty get it replaced.......
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Old 2nd March 2011, 12:22   #1378
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@Randhawa: Recalling your earlier post (see attached photo) I do not remember having a black rubber bush on the gear shifting rocker assembly. Neither is this part shown in the parts catalogue.

Could you advise what is the function of this part and what is its part no.?

Thanks again.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 18:59   #1379
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

@epvineesh- Its a lock issue, get it replaced.

@Bradhey- You just need to look in the right place for the answer Here you go my friend-
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It's the part no 44 in the picture and RE part no is 570184, it's called Spacer - Shaft, Gear Lever. It's not on the rocker shaft assembly but gear shaft assembly. Rocker shaft assembly is part no 50 and part no 43 is gear shaft assembly.

It keeps the shaft in place so the gear shaft does not pop out and you are left without any options of getting out of a stuck gear.

Very good news on rich mixture/jerking/sooted plug issue Update in few hours.

Last edited by Randhawa : 2nd March 2011 at 19:30.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 20:01   #1380
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Default Re: Royal Enfield 500 Classic 4100 km Ownership Review

Quote:
Very good news on rich mixture/jerking/sooted plug issue Update in few hours.
Eagerly awaited. is it the wurth?
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