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Old 3rd December 2013, 09:49   #151
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Default Re: Tip 26: Engine braking

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Originally Posted by Slick View Post
I think when some one mentioned engine braking as being effective they meant that it is effective as an add on along with you front & rear brakes.

I use it generally when I have overshot my braking range, and I know that with only my brakes in action I'll probably have a collision. then I start shifting down and releasing, normally just one gear shift helps me get in range.

So I feel it is not a preferred way of braking but I would rather do that than have a crash.

I am not sure I'll be able to do this during real real emergency braking as that will depend upon my presence of mind.

If you have seen Keith Code's "Twist of The Wrist" video or read "Twist of the Wrist 2" he has made a very relevant statement on this very issue:

"Brake pads are cheap, gearbox components are not. Engine braking by down-shifting is a very expensive way to slow down a motorcycle" (Not quoted verbatim)

As far as pulling in the clutch is concerned, it should be pulled in only after a majority of braking is completed, and, vehicle speeds have reduced to a level where the engine would stall if the clutch is not pulled in.

This will provide the additional engine braking required instead of trying to go down through the gears and trying to wreck one's gearbox.

Down-shifting is done more to remain in a relevant gear at the reduced speed achieved after a major braking episode.This is done to enable oneself to make a quick get-away from any impending situation / danger without stalling the vehicle.
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Old 7th December 2013, 13:07   #152
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Default Re: Tip 26: Engine braking

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Originally Posted by Astrobufff View Post
"Brake pads are cheap, gearbox components are not. Engine braking by down-shifting is a very expensive way to slow down a motorcycle" (Not quoted verbatim)
I agree with what you have said,

but if you go through what I have said
"I use it generally when I have overshot my braking range, and I know that with only my brakes in action I'll probably have a collision. then I start shifting down and releasing, normally just one gear shift helps me get in range.

So I feel it is not a preferred way of braking but I would rather do that than have a crash
"

I use it only when I feel it is required and not as a preferred way of braking.

- Slick
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Old 9th June 2014, 21:34   #153
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Quick question for the pros out here: I was riding my yezdi today and there was a downpour suddenly. In Mumbai, we have roads paved with infernal things called paver blocks. I noticed my bike was skidding massively on these. I had a spill on Wednesday as I got out of my apartment building onto paver blocks after a brief drizzle.

Can anyone help me with how best to tackle these things? So far my thoughts are to skip riding for the next few months (when it's raining) and go back to full time driving of the xuv. Is that the only option?

Thanks much.
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Old 17th June 2014, 23:30   #154
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Default Re: The Safe Riding thread

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Originally Posted by djpeesh View Post
... my bike was skidding massively on these..
With my limited riding experience, I can suggest:
1. Changing equipment: tires to wet condition ones, which allow water to channel through properly.

2. Modulating technique: use a mix of brakes & engine braking to reduce chances of a wheel lock up, ride more smoothly and slowly as compared to your regular dry condition riding style, in tricky sections you can even lower your feet closer to the ground and move slowly.

3. Try to use the portions where least water level is there over the surface. This can be judged by looking at tired of the vehicle in front, and how deep they are in water.

4. Try to avoid riding in heavy rains. Other than slipping, the reduced visibility levels also are a major cause for concern.

Ride Safe,
Sam
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Old 18th June 2014, 08:30   #155
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Default Re: The Safe Riding thread

Initial rains make the surface slippery as all the sand, oil, grease accumulated all this while tends to get wet & form a coating limiting traction. Avoid first, initial rains.
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Old 24th June 2014, 13:03   #156
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An advice for bikers. Thought i will post it here.
Name:  ImageUploadedByTeamBHP1403595210.156795.jpg
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Size:  147.0 KB

Ride safe !


Sent from my iPhone using Team-BHP
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Old 28th June 2014, 18:15   #157
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Default Re: The Safe Riding thread

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Originally Posted by djpeesh View Post
Quick question for the pros out here: I was riding my yezdi today and there was a downpour suddenly. In Mumbai, we have roads paved with infernal things called paver blocks. I noticed my bike was skidding massively on these. I had a spill on Wednesday as I got out of my apartment building onto paver blocks after a brief drizzle.

Can anyone help me with how best to tackle these things? So far my thoughts are to skip riding for the next few months (when it's raining) and go back to full time driving of the xuv. Is that the only option?

Thanks much.
Agree with Samarth & Sheel both,

I guess the grip levels are - Paver Blocks << Concrete << Tar

So Speed/ Brake bite should be modulated accordingly.

Look out for moss accumulation, they are very slippery, Every one would slip there.

As Sheel said bear out the first few days and try riding again, If the slipping still continues in spite of conservative riding, change footwear.

- Slick

PS: Superb message Rohit, Very True

Last edited by Slick : 28th June 2014 at 18:16.
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Old 28th June 2014, 20:23   #158
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Default Re: Tip 7: Use both brakes

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Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
Never pump the brakes.

Remember the two finger rule.


In any riding school, they will always ask you to ignore the rear brakes or even disconnect them.
Brilliant one aditya! Thanks!
Never knew or thought of the whole process!
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Old 5th August 2014, 09:48   #159
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Default Re: The Safe Riding thread

ride/drive safely especially in the rains , and amidst trucks , & please do not try the 'skills' shown in the video below ; )

https://in.screen.yahoo.com/motorcyc...082403566.html

Last edited by vinay kamath : 5th August 2014 at 09:51.
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Old 5th August 2014, 21:27   #160
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Default Re: The Safe Riding thread

Hello all, a recent incident got me thinking:

My colony roads have recently dealt with a situation of a five young kids (18-20 yrs old at the max.), blessed by their fathers with 250+ cc Dukes, a pulsar 220, a ninja 600cc and some other bike which I'm not too familiar with. They would zip across the colony roads late night, past 12:00 mostly, not even slowing down at intersections - almost like trying to live out some scene from a hollywood movie or a grand prix circuit.

The noise or the racket they created was a minor complaint compared to the risk they put themselves in + the risk to some car/biker who would be using the road late at night, completely unaware that there'll be a herd of bikes, blindly rushing past at 70-80 kmph, even at the cross roads.

Last night I was working late at home and around midnight, I heard raised voices. A few of the immediate neighbours came out and called for me. The situation was that some of the furious colony members had caught these kids in the act, literally rounded them up and were almost at the point of physically harming them by the time we had arrived at the scene.

The kids were, of course, scared witless - with extreme apologies and pleads to us to not inform their parents. Some of the members softened up after a while but a few persisted in hammering down their 'crime' even harder. It reached a point when someone suggested calling the cops.

I stepped in - out of impulse and with no idea what I was doing, but something inside of me told me I had to (I'm not generally one known to do such things). I knew the loudest of the neighbour very well and told him in private that I need exactly 15 mins with the boys at my place. He was unsure at first and of course, demanded to know what I had in mind. I just told him to trust me on this.

After all the commotion/discussion died down, the boys and three of the neighbours were at my place, in front of my TV. My wife, though surprised, knew exactly what I was up to. I turned down the lights and played the one documentary I hold very, very close to my heart on my 43" plasma TV :

Why We Ride.

The neighbours who landed up my place opened their mouth to say something but I motioned to be quiet. I watched the boys reactions change from puzzlement to pure concentration. The neighbours, annoyed at first, also sat in rapt attention. I paused the film, I think in about 10 or 12 minutes. No one moved for whole minute. Once again, I noticed that this one film can hold anyone's attention.

I turned on the lights and told the boys that I'll have copies of this film made by tomorrow and requested to watch the film with their friends. I requested the neighbours to understand the energy levels that run around at their age and what happens when they mix that with souped-up, street legal racers.

But almost immediately, the voices of dissent were raised and their 'crime' was out on the table for punishment. They took the boys back to their bikes and I didn't follow. I knew it had no effect on the adults, but somewhere - I was sure of it - somewhere, the film had touched the kids.

The next evening, they came over, all five of them. I sat down with them, to apologies and thank you-s at my living room once again. I heard them out and simply told them this (or something like this, don't remember all of it): "We're all riders. Any one of us who has motorbike, is inevitably part of the family. We take risks no other motorists do: we weather good roads, bad roads, bad traffic, sudden lane changes by larger vehicles, a chance of a tyre burst and what not. Two wheels are the only reason we belong in the same family. And we need respect. We need mutual respect. We need to respect the machines we ride. We need to be thankful we can ride another day. Ride to stay alive please..."

It helped. I don't where they take out all the extra energy nowadays, but the madness stopped & whenever they ride or drive by now, they do at a safe speed and myself + the neighbours get a nod or a smile from these kids.

Got me thinking : Those of us are in our forties now and have been riders in the younger days must have gone through the same speed-freak stage. I'm sure any young one who's just learnt how to handle a motorcycle and feels the rush of speed cannot resist the same. It's natural. A few falls and huge bills will sober this down automatically.

However, very few of us got our hands on bikes that's more than a 100cc during the 80's...Today a 180-200cc is pretty much a standard. Better braking systems, torque, lighting and handling are all just the right cocktail mix for the new age youngsters to go bonkers on a two wheeler. Speed is power and power is being horribly misused.

When are we going promote rider education for the young ones that will join this family? How many accidents will it take for us who are capable, to not just merely hand over the keys to a motorcycle and say, "ride safe, son"?

Maybe we need to help the new generation more pro-actively. It certainly can help. I can vouch for that. But I have no idea how to promote this feeling I have inside to help, and I would love to. Any ideas?

Just thought I'd share this question within me with everyone. I feel it's a point to ponder about. Ciao and thanks for reading!

Last edited by rideon74 : 5th August 2014 at 21:52.
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Old 16th October 2014, 22:07   #161
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Default Re: The Safe Riding thread

Nice story rideon74! I personally didn't like Why We Ride, definitely not as much as Faster, but it's definitely carries a message, and in a brilliant way!

Since we are talking about safety here, I recently was a first responder to a friend's horrible car crash. A luxury bus had ploughed the car my friend and his family were traveling in from behind, and the Honda City was reduced to the size of a Tata Nano. I saw many weird things there, how hospitals/ambulance drivers/policemen are all part of a business, how cashless insurance policies can be fairly useless, and how things you do now can he helpful when your luck runs out in the future.

I wrote a post on this topic, detailing 9 things that you can do now that might help you in the future if unfortunately you are part of a crash. You can definitely ride safe, but can't really control what other people do! The points are as follows:

1. Always keep ~200,000 Rupees ($3200) cash distributed over different accounts

2. Get good health and life insurance with accident coverage

3. Always carry your cashless insurance card

4. Always carry 1 chip protected credit card

5. Tell your family about your account, insurance and credit card details

6. Tell your family about your trip plans and keep them updated

7. Always carry your company ID card

8. Wear dog tags

9. Always keep family contact information in phone and wallet

The point here is that ride safe, do everything you can to be as safe as possible, but always be prepared for the worst. Don't think you are immune to such tragedies, the friend of mine who got into this accident was going from his home to a temple 15 kms away!
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Old 17th October 2014, 01:11   #162
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Default Re: The Safe Riding thread

Good thread! Here's a couple of thoughts I'd like to share on riding safely based on what I've learned being biker all my life:

1. Safety tip for Pillion Riders - Please do not, under any circumstances, use your hands to indicate left or right turn signals. You are not the rider, you do not know what the rider may see that may cause him or her to swerve one way or another. You may know the route, you may know that the rider needs to take that approaching left... stay still. Your well-meaning effort could cause a serious accident.

2. The Hard Choice - I've seen too many crashes where riders have tried to swerve at the last second to avoid a small animal (cat, dog, goat) that has run onto their path, only to lose traction and drop the bike and themselves on to the tarmac. I know this sounds heartless, but understand that if you slow down as much as you can in a straight line and make contact, you probably won't drop the bike. Of course, I'm not recommending that you ignore small animals or actively try to clip them while braking, but please don't risk losing your front or high siding in an effort to spare the animal. Just my opinion.

3. Another tip for Pillion Riders - Do not make sudden, jerky movements on the bike. Your movements shift your weight on the bike, which in turn changes the variables the rider is using to calculate lean angles, braking distance and distribution. Find a comfortable position and stay stable. On corners, don't fight the lean in - lean with the bike and trust your rider.

4. Learn to blip - You can loosely equate blipping the throttle on your downshifts to what drivers do when they use the heel-toe technique in cars. You don't have to do it all the time, but it can make your downshifting more effective, and can help you wring out precious performance from your engine and gearbox when you really need it.

5. Listen to the input - One of the things that makes biking so engaging as an activity is the wealth of feedback you get from your bike every second. Pay attention to it, and use it. Through the seat of your pants, from your thighs and feet, your arms and shoulders, your ears and eyes, the bike is constantly communicating with you, letting you know how it feels, where its weight is going, how its grip is working and shifting, where it is comfortable and where it isn't. Soak all of it in, and use it to build your understanding of how this particular piece of machinery behaves in varied circumstances. Every bike is unique - constantly paying attention to what yours is saying can mean the difference between life and death in an emergency.

Safe riding, everybody - let's all make it back to talk about it.
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Old 17th October 2014, 08:20   #163
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Default Re: The Safe Riding thread

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2. The Hard Choice - I've seen too many crashes where riders have tried to swerve at the last second to avoid a small animal (cat, dog, goat) that has run onto their path, only to lose traction and drop the bike and themselves on to the tarmac.
Kinda agree but unlike a car, you can lose balance that much more easily by hitting even a small animal. Best to swerve - a split second decision though - considering vehicles close by.

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5. Listen to the input - One of the things that makes biking so engaging as an activity is the wealth of feedback you get from your bike every second. Pay attention to it, and use it. Through the seat of your pants, from your thighs and feet, your arms and shoulders, your ears and eyes, the bike is constantly communicating with you.
This is so true. I know of many riders who don't feel a thing when they're riding. But there is so much of feedback to be received from the bike.
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Old 17th October 2014, 11:42   #164
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Default Re: The Safe Riding thread

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Kinda agree but unlike a car, you can lose balance that much more easily by hitting even a small animal. Best to swerve - a split second decision though - considering vehicles close by.
Fair point, Naveen. As I said, this is purely my opinion, as I personally have found staying upright and slowing in a straight line to be a safer option in these particular situations. On the occasions when I've had to do this, one of two things has happened:

1. My braking in a straight line has given the animal time to dart away, or

2. I've slowed down enough for the hit to be a pretty mild one. The front tyre has made contact, the animal has yelped and bounced away, I've stayed upright and safe, no damage to the bike, no apparent serious harm to the animal (they're built a lot tougher than we are).

I recognize, however, that what works best for me in these cases may not be the right choice for others.
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Old 17th October 2014, 23:03   #165
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Default Re: The Safe Riding thread

My contribution to the thread and the above discussion -

Dogs are very unpredictable and let me describe 3 incidents -
1. dog sleeping by side of road just ahead of a turn , bike doing 25/30 approaching said turn when he decides to yelp and jump right in front , low speed allowed me to brake some more and evade . Lesson learnt is they are unpredictable .
2. dog on sidewalk , a boy with his father 10 feet further down sidewalk . Boy says shoo with throwing motion , do jumps off sidewalk and lands straight in front of me , 40kmph speed without time for brake , I simply ride straight , hit him and front wobbles but regain control fast . Dog seems fine - lesson learnt is ride straight .

Post these incident , I by second nature now dump speed when I see dogs especially packs or those who are in motion .

3. Night riding , 50kmph speed when dog suddenly out of bush starts crossing road 10 feet away , grap front brake ( new duke 390 with ABS , clutch was depressed simultaneously of course ) and a stoppie(front wheel lock) lasting less than a second happens , no accident or loss of control on landing . The worst part is neither me nor pillion had helmet on because he wanted a short cursory ride in front of my house on a very well lit road within an army cantt that sees no traffic and I considered bulletproof safe.
Lesson learnt -
1. never pass on helmet . I don't even for the 2km round trip to milk shop but now not even for a 1km round trip joyride . Not worth it and the cool night gave me a cold too.
2. don't fully trust electronic assistance .
3. use rear brake too , front only is too skewered . I at the moment don't use rear because of very uncomfortable peg position , my previous enfield was only rear application .
4. Dogs are .@##$#%#$#^$%^^$%^$%^%&%
5. Keeping the bike straight and not trying to evade helped , I will fully keep my bike straight the next encounter as well .
6. Safe roads are very dangerous , they make you lax . I would not do 50 on a unknown empty road at night especially with an added life to care for at back .

Last edited by basuroy : 17th October 2014 at 23:09.
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