Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th April 2010, 18:54   #1
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 35
Thanked: 7 Times
Thumbs up Run In / Break In The New Bullet

Dear TBHPians

I intend to bring in some expertise and wisdom collectively on the ideal method of running / breaking in the new bullet, including the difference between the two terms. Please contribute with your experience. What is most important is to draw merits/demerits of these two controversial methods.

1) The regular 50K till 5000K and gradually up model, The Soft One

2) The 'revolutionary' Motoman guy method of a Hard One.

I think it is going to be a very important knowledgebase and will help in getting rid of any piston/cylinder redoing issues and loving your love lovingly, properly.
atrocious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2010, 20:00   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
Randhawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,128
Thanked: 256 Times
Default

My personal opinion is to stick with manual running in method which is up to 50km/hr till 500km and 80-90 from 500-2000km and there after top speeds with short burst.

Motoman method is no good for our Indian single cylinder bikes. His method which I kind of dont agree with is best left for 4 cylinder 4 strokers. On a 4 cylinder bike the stress of a new engine running in is dispersed at all ends while single cylinder takes all the brunt of excess heat with only air cooled and no oil cooler design.
Randhawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2010, 21:07   #3
BHPian
 
Shashank.A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 479
Thanked: Once
Default

AFAIK, the break-in does not work for Bullets. not sure about the new UCE engines though.
Shashank.A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2010, 21:46   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,192
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Don't follow Motoman's method. Stick to the manual's recommendations and read this link-> The Bullet: Mystries & Myths - Running-in a new Bullet.

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2010, 22:44   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
akshay4587's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chandigarh/Mohali/Ambala Cantt
Posts: 3,756
Thanked: 1,554 Times
Default

Do not try moto man on a Royal enfield.

Stick to normal method for at least 3K kms
akshay4587 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2010, 22:48   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 18
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atrocious View Post
Dear TBHPians

I intend to bring in some expertise and wisdom collectively on the ideal method of running / breaking in the new bullet, including the difference between the two terms. Please contribute with your experience. What is most important is to draw merits/demerits of these two controversial methods.
.
For what it is worth THIS is how I used to tune RE Bullets for racing at Sholavaram:
1)Strip the new (or old) engine down completely,
2) Check crank alignment carefully(in the old days this used to be "off" by quite a bit due to shoddy workmanship at the factory)and polish cranks.
3) Once (2) is done, replace all the factory fitted side bearings with new ones
4) Check the floating bush on the RR56 Con rod.
5) Keep a new 9:1 domed piston handy(available in those days)
6) Assemble bottom half of engine after facing the two halves for accurate match.
7) Cylinder to be bored out to fit the new .010" or.020" oversize high compression piston to racing clearances after cross hatch finishing the bore
8) Place both cylinder and piston in boiling water for 10 minutes and check bore to piston clearance, increase to .002" by honing if needed(.002" is the piston to bore clearance HOT )
9) Attach an old con rod on piston(do not install rings)Sprinkle an equal amount of "Brasso" mixed with kerosene into the bore, put piston inside bore and get some of your friends to push piston up and down for a couple of hours, replenishing the "Brasso" kerosene mixture regularly.
10) Wipe bore and piston scrupulously clean
11) Remove piston rings from packing and gap top ring to .008" 2nd ring to .006" and the oil ring also to .006"
12) Attach piston with rings to con rod and assemble cylinder onto the lower half of engine .
This is the basic assembly procedure I used to follow for a high performance RE Bullet. The Cylinder head and camshaft, spark plugs Valves and valve springs, hot cams, etc etc are another story in themselves that I won't go into now.
Running in the engine was simple, A few bursts at FULL THROTTLE(to bed down the rings properly and thereby get the best seal)was all that was required. Valve timing had to be done accurately with a degree wheel, as piston to valve clearances were very little, and any over revving would inevitably mean the valves hitting the domed piston.
Two spark plugs were used, -one in the original hole, and the other in place of the de compressor assly. ALL my engines topped 100MPH.

Last edited by bblost : 21st April 2010 at 17:57. Reason: Gave a line break between the points for better readability.
Indiaman is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2010, 23:17   #7
BHPian
 
elan23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Durham
Posts: 37
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

There is a difference between 'Running In' and 'Breaking In.'
You run the bike in.
The bike breaks you in!
elan23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2010, 00:31   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,192
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiaman View Post
For what it is worth THIS is how I used to tune RE Bullets for racing at Sholavaram: 1)Strip the new (or old) engine down completely, 2) Check crank alignment carefully(in the old days this used to be "off" by quite a bit due to shoddy workmanship at the factory)and polish cranks.3) Once (2) is done, replace all the factory fitted side bearings with new ones 4) Check the floating bush on the RR56 Con rod.5) Keep a new 9:1 domed piston handy(available in those days)6) Assemble bottom half of engine after facing the two halves for accurate match.7)Cylinder to be bored out to fit the new .010" or.020" oversize high compression piston to racing clearances after cross hatch finishing the bore 8)Place both cylinder and piston in boiling water for 10 minutes and check bore to piston clearance, increase to .002" by honing if needed(.002" is the piston to bore clearance HOT )9) Attach an old con rod on piston(do not install rings)Sprinkle an equal amount of "Brasso" mixed with kerosene into the bore, put piston inside bore and get some of your friends to push piston up and down for a couple of hours, replenishing the "Brasso" kerosene mixture regularly.10) Wipe bore and piston scrupulously clean11) Remove piston rings from packing and gap top ring to .008" 2nd ring to .006" and the oil ring also to .006" 12) Attach piston with rings to con rod and assemble cylinder onto the lower half of engine .
This is the basic assembly procedure I used to follow for a high performance RE Bullet. The Cylinder head and camshaft, spark plugs Valves and valve springs, hot cams, etc etc are another story in themselves that I won't go into now.
Running in the engine was simple, A few bursts at FULL THROTTLE(to bed down the rings properly and thereby get the best seal)was all that was required. Valve timing had to be done accurately with a degree wheel, as piston to valve clearances were very little, and any over revving would inevitably mean the valves hitting the domed piston.
Two spark plugs were used, -one in the original hole, and the other in place of the de compressor assly. ALL my engines topped 100MPH.
By any chance, do we have Bose sir posting here?

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2010, 14:43   #9
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Manipal
Posts: 69
Thanked: 0 Times
Default WOW-ed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiaman View Post
For what it is worth THIS is how I used to tune RE Bullets for racing at Sholavaram: 1)Strip the new (or old) engine down completely, 2) Check crank alignment carefully(in the old days this used to be "off" by quite a bit due to shoddy workmanship at the factory)and polish cranks.3) Once (2) is done, replace all the factory fitted side bearings with new ones 4) Check the floating bush on the RR56 Con rod.5) Keep a new 9:1 domed piston handy(available in those days)6) Assemble bottom half of engine after facing the two halves for accurate match.7)Cylinder to be bored out to fit the new .010" or.020" oversize high compression piston to racing clearances after cross hatch finishing the bore 8)Place both cylinder and piston in boiling water for 10 minutes and check bore to piston clearance, increase to .002" by honing if needed(.002" is the piston to bore clearance HOT )9) Attach an old con rod on piston(do not install rings)Sprinkle an equal amount of "Brasso" mixed with kerosene into the bore, put piston inside bore and get some of your friends to push piston up and down for a couple of hours, replenishing the "Brasso" kerosene mixture regularly.10) Wipe bore and piston scrupulously clean11) Remove piston rings from packing and gap top ring to .008" 2nd ring to .006" and the oil ring also to .006" 12) Attach piston with rings to con rod and assemble cylinder onto the lower half of engine .
This is the basic assembly procedure I used to follow for a high performance RE Bullet. The Cylinder head and camshaft, spark plugs Valves and valve springs, hot cams, etc etc are another story in themselves that I won't go into now.
Running in the engine was simple, A few bursts at FULL THROTTLE(to bed down the rings properly and thereby get the best seal)was all that was required. Valve timing had to be done accurately with a degree wheel, as piston to valve clearances were very little, and any over revving would inevitably mean the valves hitting the domed piston.
Two spark plugs were used, -one in the original hole, and the other in place of the de compressor assly. ALL my engines topped 100MPH.

And all this while I thought I knew about engines

The way i had ran my bike (2007 Electra 5-speed) in was
1. Take the bike from the showroom in Hyderabad, and into a Petrol pump
2. Top up tank, along with a sachet of 2T oil.
3. Take her out to the highway to Bangalore
4. Run her around 50 kmph, medium revs. I could listen to the engine sound becoming smoother everytime i started her after my breaks. I took breaks every 75 km to make sure i don't stress her out.
5. After about 250 kms, the bike was increasing speed without any acceleration from my end. so i open the throttle slightly and watch her glide into a more comfortable cruising speed. This keeps happening till i am holding her back at 80 at medium range revs after about 470 kms.
6. Stop for the night
7. Open oil sump next morning. Check for iron filings. Change engine oil.
Done!

It has never touched 100MPH but I have taken her past 120 KMPH on NH5 and she is a perfectly well behaved lady.
justROYal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2010, 15:29   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,192
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by justROYal View Post

And all this while I thought I knew about engines

The way i had ran my bike (2007 Electra 5-speed) in was
1. Take the bike from the showroom in Hyderabad, and into a Petrol pump
2. Top up tank, along with a sachet of 2T oil.
3. Take her out to the highway to Bangalore
4. Run her around 50 kmph, medium revs. I could listen to the engine sound becoming smoother everytime i started her after my breaks. I took breaks every 75 km to make sure i don't stress her out.
5. After about 250 kms, the bike was increasing speed without any acceleration from my end. so i open the throttle slightly and watch her glide into a more comfortable cruising speed. This keeps happening till i am holding her back at 80 at medium range revs after about 470 kms.
6. Stop for the night
7. Open oil sump next morning. Check for iron filings. Change engine oil.
Done!

It has never touched 100MPH but I have taken her past 120 KMPH on NH5 and she is a perfectly well behaved lady.
Indiaman is rebuilding an engine here and then running it in. With precise tolerances/hone levels, the engine can be whipped from the word go. This isn't the case with mass produced engines, especially from RE. So this run in doesn't apply to stock Bullets straight out of the showroom.

2T oil is a no-no. This is one misconception that mechanics try to drill into unsuspecting customers' mind.

If you find metal filings in the oil after/during the run in. No issue. It is perfectly normal.

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2010, 16:45   #11
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Manipal
Posts: 69
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
Indiaman is rebuilding an engine here and then running it in. With precise tolerances/hone levels, the engine can be whipped from the word go. This isn't the case with mass produced engines, especially from RE. So this run in doesn't apply to stock Bullets straight out of the showroom.

2T oil is a no-no. This is one misconception that mechanics try to drill into unsuspecting customers' mind.

If you find metal filings in the oil after/during the run in. No issue. It is perfectly normal.

Cheers,

Jay
Would love to have a thread on Indiaman's rebuild with photographs. Its unfortunate that I am not the only idiot who rides a Bull without ever having rebuilt an engine with my own hands.

Same for 2T oil. That was the last time that went into my bike anyways. As for the iron filings, I am told that while they are normal and only a by-product of the running-in process, they give a possible indication during subsequent oil changes if the running in was done properly or not. Is this true?

Also, would you suggest a synthetic engine oil during running-in, or for that matter, even subsequently?

In case you are Prashi from RTMC and Indiaman is Bose Sir, then be warned, you guys have a lot of queries coming from my end
justROYal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2010, 01:21   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 35
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

I also got to know that the first engine oil should be changed after 50 km, the km done with short bursts of above average RPMs. What do you think Jay/Indiaman/Everybody Else...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by justROYal View Post
Also, would you suggest a synthetic engine oil during running-in, or for that matter, even subsequently?
Very important to know...! What are the experts using in synthetic, non synthetic and semi synthetic options and what do they suggest is the best option for a break / run in...?
atrocious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2010, 12:01   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore/Pune
Posts: 1,192
Thanked: 1,556 Times
Default

Like I said earlier, the Nandan method of run in is the best method as the engine is exposed to high speeds gradually. This takes some patience but is well worth it. Stick to the 500 Km first oil change. Use mineral for the first 2000-3000 Kms and then go for synthetic. In the initial 3000 Kms when you are on mineral, I would suggest avoiding riding in peak hour traffic. Reason: Bullets are jetted lean from the factory and are big air cooled singles. These two factors makes them particularly susceptible to high operating temperatures in the engine when stuck up in slow moving traffic. The engine wear curve also will dramatically increase in such conditions as bullets come very close to exceeding mineral oils' flash points in hot weather, rush hour traffic. So, avoiding peak hour traffic is the your best bet till you shift to synthetic which has a higher flash point than mineral oil. Once you do this, your engine will be better protected in slow moving traffic.

Cheers,

Jay
JayPrashanth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2010, 13:50   #14
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 35
Thanked: 7 Times
Thumbs up Three points

1. So what you are saying is that the fabled metal filings in the chamber don't do any harm even if they stay there for first 500 km. This 50 km oil change; is it redundant or harmful...? I mean is it a pure waste of money or will it impact the engine badly as well...?

2. Can you name a few of your picks for the different oils you mentioned...?

3. These questions are not exclusive to Jay.
atrocious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2010, 15:11   #15
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 18
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atrocious View Post
I also got to know that the first engine oil should be changed after 50 km, the km done with short bursts of above average RPMs. What do you think Jay/Indiaman/Everybody Else...?


Very important to know...! What are the experts using in synthetic, non synthetic and semi synthetic options and what do they suggest is the best option for a break / run in...?
First oil change after only 50KM? you must be joking!Change oil after running for at least 500KM, check oil filter for metal particles, -there will be some- but as long as it is not from the big or small ends, this is tolerable. For the first two or three oil changes on a new or reconditioned engine, you will find some debris, after this, there should be only very small particles, you can cut open the old oil filter and wash the debris in it with petrol,dry the residue, then analyze it.
The worst way to "run in" an engine is to let it lug at low RPM's. As regards oils, I would use any of the new 4 stroke oils for air cooled engines, they should have the formulation for best heat protection. I would not use synthetics, as most of my friends who are experts in lubrication say they offer no significant extra protection over normal oils(most of the so called "synthetics" are based on fossil oils anyway)
Indiaman is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which current RE UCE Bullet to buy? Or should I go for a used CI Bullet? swami69 Motorbikes 77 14th September 2015 17:50
All Bullet Gurus:: Need your Suggestion : Planning to Modify Bullet-Project Wanderer Shubhendra Motorbikes 56 6th October 2014 11:18
GQ Run II (Golden Quadrilateral Run II) arindamray Travelogues 327 6th August 2013 00:00


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:13.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks