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Old 1st May 2010, 13:13   #1
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Default RE Bullet 4 speed to 5 speed gearbox swap

Hi, first post. I'm an expat living in Chennai now for about 2 years. Have a 98 500 that I have been working on. Had it built in Delhi and shipped to Chennai. My question is does anyone have any info on swapping out the 4 speed gearbox for the 5 speed. I want to maintain right hand shift, just like the gearing much better in the 5 speed. Last time I was in Karol Bagh I was told it can be done, just need to drill a new hole somewhere to get it to fit, but can't find anyone in Chennai that agrees. I have no problem doing it myself, just need some direction to do it. Thanks for any advice.

=Jason-

Pic of my bike
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Old 1st May 2010, 19:12   #2
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We have them here, use the link and scroll down.

Hitchcocks Motorcycles -- Royal Enfield and Amal Parts and Kits
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Old 2nd May 2010, 10:41   #3
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Well, I know it can be done, with the LHS shift. Its an expensive job and costs around 20 to 25K.

However i would be vary of any "drilling the hole" kind of stuff, if I plan to use my long term.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 11:09   #4
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Hmm.. I missed a bit;
Goto 'Accesory Catalogue,
Scroll down and pick 'Gearbox' then further down is the info on lh shift 5 speed boxes.
5 SPEED RIGHT SHIFT CONVERSIONThis kit converts the standard 5 speed left foot gear change to the traditional Bullet right foot change and at the same time giving the 1 up 4 down pattern (we can also suppy 1 down 4 up which does not require the cam plate). It includes all the necessary parts including a new machined outer cover, cam plate, gear change shaft, brake pedal, bungs etc.

Note: The neutral warning light will be lost in this conversion. PART No.DESCRIPTIONPRICE 901405 SPEED CONVERSION, LEFT TO RIGHT CHANGE WITH BRAKE, 1UP 4DOWN£175.00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 MODIFIED 5 SPEED GEARBOXThis is the gearbox which is fitted as standard to the new 5 speed Bullets. We have converted this gearbox to a right foot gear change and have modified the internals to give the conventional 1 up 4 down gear change (we can also offer 1 down 4 up). We can now offer this gearbox kit to fit any of the earlier Bullets, whether English or Indian. We have tested this gearbox since 2003 and have put it through its paces on the road and track. With its completely new design, it has performed superbly. It has vastly improved rideability and performance over the old 4 speed models. It comes complete with new style clutch centre, clutch cable, gear and kickstart lever etc.

Note: If you have the early Magura levers please select the appropriate Part Number.

4 Speed ratios: 1st = 2.78:1, 2nd = 1.84:1, 3rd = 1.36:1, 4th = 1:1.

5 Speed ratios: 1st = 3.06:1, 2nd = 2.01:1, 3rd = 1.52:1, 4th = 1.21:1, 5th = 1:1 . PART No.DESCRIPTIONPRICE 901105 SPEED GEARBOX RIGHT CHANGE 1UP 4 DOWN£599.00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 90110magura5 SPEED GEARBOX RIGHT CHANGE 1 UP 4 DOWN, FOR MAGURA LEVERS£599.00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100

Last edited by Eddy : 2nd May 2010 at 14:23. Reason: Removed formatting tags.
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Old 4th May 2010, 01:13   #5
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^^^ Very expensive though going that way. More than double the price of a gearbox from Royal Enfield. I've been told, and I've seen 4 speed bikes with the 5 speed swap so I know it's doable. Was just wondering if anyone had any information on that. Thanks

=Jason-
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Old 4th May 2010, 08:24   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOGS View Post
^^^ Very expensive though going that way. More than double the price of a gearbox from Royal Enfield. I've been told, and I've seen 4 speed bikes with the 5 speed swap so I know it's doable. Was just wondering if anyone had any information on that. Thanks

=Jason-
LOGS dont worry its not expensive at all Hitchcoks is just stupid pricing.

what you need to do is source a Gearbox which i think you can get for around 15 K if you want let me know cause some one was talking about it. and then on the right side of the gear box you need to dril in and fit a shaft and there you go. i may plan to do this to my bullet if i decide to keep it for long.

this conversion takes 1000 rs in delhi inclutding the shaft and every thing fom the machine worker. and apart from that you are looking at a fitting charge and the seals and other small things.

you take care

i am attaching a photo for the reference.
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Old 4th May 2010, 09:38   #7
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I am curious as to why do you want to do this conversion? Top Speed will not change and Bullet's high torque makes it easy to drive around even without the extra gear.
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Old 4th May 2010, 11:57   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desideep View Post
LOGS dont worry its not expensive at all Hitchcoks is just stupid pricing.

what you need to do is source a Gearbox which i think you can get for around 15 K if you want let me know cause some one was talking about it. and then on the right side of the gear box you need to dril in and fit a shaft and there you go. i may plan to do this to my bullet if i decide to keep it for long.

this conversion takes 1000 rs in delhi inclutding the shaft and every thing fom the machine worker. and apart from that you are looking at a fitting charge and the seals and other small things.

you take care

i am attaching a photo for the reference.
Thanks, exactly what I was looking for thank you. I've been told it could be done in Delhi, but I've asked around here in Chennai and noone has been any help. I take the circle is where you will have to drill for the shaft? Can this be done with the engine still on the bike? I'm trying to determine how I can get this done. Already sourced a 5 speed gearbox from a RE dealer for 15k. The 5 speed tranny does make a difference, much more comfortable gears. I'm not really looking for a higher top speed, just lower revs at higher speeds. Thanks again.

=Jason-
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Old 4th May 2010, 13:37   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOGS View Post
I'm not really looking for a higher top speed, just lower revs at higher speeds.
The revs won't be any lower in the top gear between a 4-Speed and a 5-Speed. Might I suggest a sprocket change. A simple job. The only advantage of a 5-Speed is faster acceleration.

The reason why I am not too keen is because of drilling that is involved. I also own a '98 500 and I feel a sprocket might give you what you are looking for.
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Old 4th May 2010, 14:18   #10
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I've driven both a 4 speed and a 5 speed RE and there is a huge difference so that's why I want a 5 speed. Buying a new RE isn't possible because it has to be a certain age for me to take it home when I move back to the states. Drilling isn't an issue to me as long as I have good information so I can do it properly and correctly the first time. I already have a size 15 rear wheel so my acceleration is alright now. I just want the 5 speed.

=Jason-
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Old 24th September 2011, 18:31   #11
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Question 4s vs 5s ratios ??

Was going thru owners manual of '08 Ci350 El 5s & gear ratios seemed curious.
It lists overall transmission ratios for electra 4s & 5s models.

Primary (clutch) ratio 2.24:1
Final (wheel) drive 2.37:1


Overall ratio as in owners manual-
Quote:
4 Speed ratios (1 to 4): 14.8:1, 9.8:1, 7.26:1, 5.32:1.

5 Speed ratios (1 to 5): 14.48:1, 9.51:1, 7.19:1, 5.73:1, 4.73:1
Gear box internal ratio from web& also posted above-
Quote:
4 Speed ratios (1 to 4): 2.78:1, 1.84:1, 1.36:1, 1:1

5 Speed ratios (1 to 5): 3.06:1, 2.01:1, 1.52:1, 1.21:1, 1:1

Two sets seem contradicting (to me). From set2, top ratios of both box is 1:1, so shouldn't overall (in set1) also be the same? Add to that, set1 shows 4s having better low speed capacity but set2 suggests 5s.

Am i getting things right? some one pls clarify..

Iirc theres similar contradicting comments across various fora.
Quote:
(1) The 5s box just lets you select a more apt ratio than 4s ie., no top speed gain
Quote:
(2) The 5s box lets you cruise same speeds at lower engine rpm than 4s ie., higher top speed at equal engine rpm

Last edited by Rennjit : 24th September 2011 at 18:33.
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Old 25th September 2011, 11:13   #12
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Default Re: RE Bullet 4 speed to 5 speed gearbox swap

I probably shouldn't stick my nose in here but the system reduction consists of three separate things. The primary clutch input ratio, the gearbox ratio and the final output ratio from the output sprocket to the rear wheel sprocket.

Assuming the primary clutch drive ratio is 2.24:1, and the final wheel drive ratio is 2.37:1 and that these ratios are unchanged when the gearbox is replaced, the ratio resulting from these two chain drive system reductions = 2.24 X 2.37 = 5.309:1.

The total system reduction including the gearbox is calculated by multiplying the gearbox reduction ratio times the above given chain reductions of 5.309:1

For the 4 speed, first gear (2.78:1) results in 2.78 X 5.309 = 14.758:1
Second gear (1.84:1) results in 1.84 X 5.309 = 9.768:1
Third gear results in 7.220:1
Fourth gear results in 3.309:1

For the 5 speed, first gear (3.06:1) results in 3.06 X 5.309 =16.245:1
Second gear results in 10.671:1
Third gear results in 8.069:1
Fourth gear results in 6.424:1
Fifth gear results in 5.309:1

These answers show no difference in the final, top gear ratio but the 5 speed will have more torque at the rear wheel when it is in first gear.
This increased torque will be noticed in all gears and will result in an increase in acceleration provided the final drive ratio is not changed by changing the output sprocket to one with more teeth.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 25th September 2011 at 11:22.
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Old 26th September 2011, 09:15   #13
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Exclamation Re: RE Bullet 4 speed to 5 speed gearbox swap

Ah right, it seems like RE put figures for 18T FD sprocket (avl-lb 500?) in 16T 5sp bike manual.

figures for Ci350 5s will be-
Quote:
4 Speed ratios (1 to 4): 14.75:1, 9.78:1, 7.24:1, 5.31:1.

5 Speed ratios (1 to 5): 16.24:1, 10.69:1, 8.08:1, 6.43:1, 5.31:1
Now that explains why Ci350 5s electra is rather quick in 2-3-4 gears also helped by lighter crank, Improved acceleration lowers fuel efficiency possibly why many owners claim lower figures than any 4s 350, Shows why 4s m/c thumps better.

17T FD sprocket would have been apt on 5s box still giving better ratios to 4s but then light cranked Ci engine would tend to knock (if not rev'd up) needing a step down to 16T. In all an interestingly weird combination of engine-g'box on E 5s; well only next to Avl 4s.
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Old 3rd July 2012, 19:53   #14
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Default Re: RE Bullet 4 speed to 5 speed gearbox swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOGS View Post
I've driven ...

I just want the 5 speed.

=Jason-
Jason- this is hilarious- you have had to literally beg people for information directed towards your specific query... I made the mistake of asking about an article that spoke about raising the top speed of the 350 by shaving the head, reducing the stroke and raising the rpm limit- BOY people flamed me so much that I am still smoking. And I dont even have a 350... to paraphrase you- 'I just want the article.'

OK- I am searching for help as follows: I want a pre-1980 350, and I need to change it to a LHS Shifter to match my other motorcycles. The possible solution being that I mate it to the 5-speed and use its LHS shifter to be able to ride all my bikes without having to worry about downshifting instead of braking.

If you have any information gleaned off this- please drop me a line.

-KD
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Old 3rd July 2012, 20:26   #15
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Default Re: RE Bullet 4 speed to 5 speed gearbox swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer & Anvil View Post
Jason- this is hilarious- you have had to literally beg people for information directed towards your specific query... I made the mistake of asking about an article that spoke about raising the top speed of the 350 by shaving the head, reducing the stroke and raising the rpm limit- BOY people flamed me so much that I am still smoking. And I dont even have a 350... to paraphrase you- 'I just want the article.'

OK- I am searching for help as follows: I want a pre-1980 350, and I need to change it to a LHS Shifter to match my other motorcycles. The possible solution being that I mate it to the 5-speed and use its LHS shifter to be able to ride all my bikes without having to worry about downshifting instead of braking.

If you have any information gleaned off this- please drop me a line.

-KD
Firstly i had a question i my Mind WHY PRE 1980, WHY NOT PRE 1972.

Beleive me my friend there is no old charm or a post 1972 for a single reason that they all are same, apart from the old style number which were stoped in end 1990's

And reagarding the Worry of yours please dont worry when you start riding you will not feel any different. when i started riding initially, i had the same thing in my mind cause i had my RX and my RD with me, but after a few day i felt no different was able to jump from one bike to another without even thinking.
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