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Old 19th October 2010, 19:46   #31
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R15 is not a benchmark for me, but as many mentioned here, it is technology tour-de-force in India. If it was benchmark, I would have upgraded to it by now.

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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
- The support/service you get for Ninja is truly an international experience; but with R15, yours is yet another 150CC for them
I am fine with it. What do you expect from a guy, who is delighted living with a Fiat for more than 6 years? Okay, no "F" word in this thread!

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- 250R is an international spec; this means, the one you see here is same that you see in Europe or USA. How about R15?
- R15 screams at 130 while 250R screams at 160 right?
I am not bothered about international specs, as long as what I get translates into road performance, even if it is less than international specs. Much cheaper P220 goes up to 145, I reckon. So you can say, I am looking for that substantial Delta.

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- However, if your aim is to cruise around 120, then R15 can satisfy too. But if you're looking for one more factor - road side attraction, then 250R is the one you need to settle, atleast for now.
Common, I am married man with kids and no more a college going young boy trying to impress girls. Jokes part, point very well taken.

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Last night, I was thinking one more fact too & let me try to frame it in best of words. What would be the 0-100 for Kwacker 650? May be 5 seconds? But for 250R its about 7 seconds. So to gain 2 seconds one should shell around 5-6 Lakhs compared to 3L on 250R. How does that sound to you?
Errrm...but as an engineer, I do appreciate what it takes under the hood to create that delta of 2 seconds. In fact I would know that, reducing it from 3 sec to 2 sec, may cost 5 times more.

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Are you trying to say that when B.A.L/TVS/YMIS starts ventures into 250cc segment, they would offer at much cheaper price than Ninja? Is that a concern you're looking at?
No. I don't mind if they price it same as Ninja, but if they can better the configuration. More choice invariably translates to better value for customers. It happened with cars and same will happen to bikes. Ninja is exclusive right now and hence commands high premium. It won't be the case, when there are choices available. (It is rumoured that 250cc Honda will be priced around 1.5L or 300cc Mojo costs less than 2L).

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For now, but if you're waiting, you'll have better models. The story of zen disciple is perfect example in this case.
It has already been the story of Zen disciple so far. Just that, this Zen disciple still hasn't learnt to cut the first tree.
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Old 19th October 2010, 20:01   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
R15 is not a benchmark for me, but as many mentioned here, it is technology tour-de-force in India. If it was benchmark, I would have upgraded to it by now.
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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
I am fine with it. What do you expect from a guy, who is delighted living with a Fiat for more than 6 years? Okay, no "F" word in this thread!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
I am not bothered about international specs, as long as what I get translates into road performance, even if it is less than international specs. Much cheaper P220 goes up to 145, I reckon. So you can say, I am looking for that substantial Delta.
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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Common, I am married man with kids and no more a college going young boy trying to impress girls. Jokes part, point very well taken.
If you're heart set for R15 or P220, then go for it; forget the 250R for now

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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Errrm...but as an engineer, I do appreciate what it takes under the hood to create that delta of 2 seconds. In fact I would know that, reducing it from 3 sec to 2 sec, may cost 5 times more.
But the question is, are you willing to shell out that extra money for the 2 seconds.

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No. I don't mind if they price it same as Ninja, but if they can better the configuration.
I doubt on this; atleast the first versions. But for SURE, the Indian manufacturers WILL price their 250's less than Ninja. I wouldn't be surprised if they price it in the 2L range. Great example Mojo 300 cc in 1.75L.

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More choice invariably translates to better value for customers. It happened with cars and same will happen to bikes.
For sure this will happen; but the question is, like I said before, TIME.

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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Ninja is exclusive right now and hence commands high premium. It won't be the case, when there are choices available.
Well have you heard any car manufacturer reducing their prices even when the competition is cut throat? May be they lure with discounts & accessories. That's the max going to happen even with 250CC's. If we have a Pulsar 250cc, the PBK guys will not even care for discount with P250 because they know their product is cheaper than 250R & will be more in demand.

Did you know that Aug 2010 saw a peak of two-wheeler sales in India & still no one gave any discounts & this is only with commuter segment, leave alone premium vehicles.

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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
(It is rumoured that 250cc Honda will be priced around 1.5L or 300cc Mojo costs less than 2L).
Yap; but is it Honda 2 wheelers India or Hero Honda? If it were Honda, then there's no speculation as which model it would be. Would it be a CB250 or something else, no one knows. Like you said, 250R is premium for now.

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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
It has already been the story of Zen disciple so far. Just that, this Zen disciple still hasn't learnt to cut the first tree.
Its just the starting trouble; I'm still unable to get the confusion on your mind except that you feel 250R is no VFM motorcycle. Yes, most premium motorcycles aren't VFM's & hence they demand the price.

How about Honda Civic? Its a premium in India isn't it? While its just another entry level sedan in US isn't it?
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Old 22nd October 2010, 00:09   #33
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Long time no see, RX saar.

More than a replacement for the 135, I believe you are looking for a "fun" machine.

A small school of thought for that Zen disciple theory. He could've roamed around the first day in concentric circles noting down approximate heights & then cut down the tallest tree on the second day...

I would suggest waiting till 2011 March.

Pros of waiting:

A) You can save more money by then.
B) Even if there's no bike launched by then that suits your needs, you'll at least have saved/computed enough money to buy the bike that's available; or rather, the Ninja wouldn't seem so expensive anymore.
C) Work out EMIs for the least expensive SBK tour-de-force, the Suzuki Bandit. At 9.5 lacs, it's VFM, compared to everything else..

Cons:

A) You'll miss out on the 2010 winter riding season. But I guess that's okay....
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Old 22nd October 2010, 01:38   #34
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@veyron1, long time no see! How you been doing? Hope, your studies are coming out well.

and yes, +1 to everything you said.

@aargee, I certainly don't think R15 and P220 fill in what I am looking for. In that case, Mojo, Ninja and imports wouldn't have come into picture.
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Old 22nd October 2010, 09:59   #35
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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
A small school of thought for that Zen disciple theory. He could've roamed around the first day in concentric circles noting down approximate heights & then cut down the tallest tree on the second day...
Well, every games has got rules to play & every life has facts to accept. Its quite easy to disobey the zen monk & keep roaming in concentric circle, hire a helicopter, laser to measure & what not to get down the things. But the rule was "never turn back". We're blessed with 86400 seconds everyday - this is the rule & we get this new everyday, but there's another rule that 86400 seconds doesn't fall twice on the same date, month & year. Does it?

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@aargee, I certainly don't think R15 and P220 fill in what I am looking for. In that case, Mojo, Ninja and imports wouldn't have come into picture.
There're speculation on FZ1 being launched this year which is absolute bang for money. Even if it were bought as CKD, they would only cost about 9.6L ex showroom. But YMIS is most likely to bring it under SKD which means the prices will be down further.

Another option for you would be is to buy an used super bike such as MT01. But whatever you buy, remember the point, never buy something that you can't maintain.
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Old 27th October 2010, 20:32   #36
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So, Honda CBR 250 is a good contender here (assuming it is indeed 26+ BHP and priced around 2L).

Is there anybody at Yamaha listening? A 400CC at 3L?
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Old 27th October 2010, 21:21   #37
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Is there anybody at Yamaha listening? A 400CC at 3L?
Forget 400cc, I'd be happy if they can launch the FZ250.
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Old 28th October 2010, 10:52   #38
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Garware is launching Hyosung bikes at 5L - 6.5L and the specs look good for the price.

Having said that, Hyosung didn't have very memorable stint in India back then with Kinetic. Let's see how they fare this time.
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Old 16th November 2010, 23:39   #39
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guys, i have been riding a machismo 350 for the last ten years, have ridden it far and wide all over Himachal and South India, but I won't suggest you spend money on anything that comes out of the RE stable. I am passionate, foolish, emotional about bullets, but if you aren't one of these, please ignore that breed altogether. The Honda CBR250 R is being mass-produced in thailand and is being launched all over the world in April 2011, and that includes India as well. Apparently the pricing will be very competitive. This is not a rumor...you can check out the Honda website for the authenticity of this news.

Talking about Mahindra, their Mojo has a Ducati fuel injection, but nobody's talking about where that 300 cc motor has been sourced from. And yes, it looks very strange!

My take is: baby Ninja or Honda CBR
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Old 17th November 2010, 00:00   #40
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Mahindra Mojo is conspicuous by absence on their website, though Stallio has made it. I wonder if Mahindra is really keen on producing and selling Mojo. Even the Amir Khan advt. seems to focus only on Stallio.

Looks like, Mojo has to be striked out from the options, though Honda CBR250R is newly added to the list along with Hyosung bikes (yet to see what price point they are launched at. I am not sure about shelling out 5+L for these bikes, the bare minimum price point at which they would possibly be launched).
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Old 17th November 2010, 00:31   #41
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Heard that the Hyosung 600cc bikes is going to be priced at sub 5L category. Then again service and maintainance might prove to be an issue.
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Old 17th November 2010, 10:33   #42
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Dude, the Honda CEO said he wants to price it 'much less than 1.5 lakhs' and that bookings open in Jan 2011. If its sub 2 lakhs methinks the bike chooses itself no?

Can't wait for the launch!
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