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Old 15th October 2010, 17:20   #1
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Default Mahindra Mojo / R15 / P220 / Ninja / Imported 250/400 cc?

Folks,

It now seems like eternity that I am waiting to upgrade my RX135. Though Yamaha will always be choice 1/2/3 for me, it is still taking baby steps through R15 and FZ, and cautious not to go beyond 150cc. (and am not willing to spend 12L on 1000cc bikes).

RX is serving me well over last 12-13 years and will continue to be with me as long as I can keep it running. But, this year, I did few highway sprints on RX and while it is still delicious, top speed is seriously limited at around 105. I am looking for a cruiser, which can munch miles and be fast. No, I am neither looking for Enticer/Avenger type of cruiser nor RE Bullets.

I am looking for something which is:
  • Be fast
  • Mile cruncher. Something which can do 110-120 for hours in relaxed manner (not top speed).
  • Reliable (and possibly serviceable).
Budget is undecided. Options so far are:
  • P220: Not a fan of Hamara Bajaj. Looking for refinement and long term reliability both. May be I am from very old school of thought, but Pulsar didn't fit in that scheme. Can be wrong.
  • R15: Doesn't feel like substantial upgrade over RX notwithstanding technology packed in.
  • Apache 180: Same as R15.
  • Ninja: Closest match for what I am looking, but somehow feel 3 Lakh is rip off for this bike, especially considering R15 retails to 1.08.
  • Mahindra Mojo: 26PS is good enough to consider, but looks horrible. Reliability questionable at this moment.
  • Honda 250cc: Anything coming over in Diwali? Is it worth waiting for?
  • Yamaha 250+: Anything in near future? Honestly, I don't have much hope there.
  • Imported 250/400cc: Totally unknown territory. Where to buy/how much to pay/which one to buy? Though I am more than willing to explore this one.
Any help? While P220 appears like VFM, I am looking for something more than that, while Baby Ninja is pricey for what it offers (strictly my opinion).

Looking forward for your thoughts/suggestions.
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Old 15th October 2010, 17:27   #2
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Looking at all the above factors, I am surprised why you are not considering the Classic 500.

Also, you could also take a look at the ZMR.
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Old 15th October 2010, 17:57   #3
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If you are on a budget and not willing to wait, R15
If you are not on a budget and not willing to wait, 250R

If you don't have a budget and mind waiting, tons of luck to you and hats off for your patience.

I shall never understand why an R15 would ever be compared to a 250R. The only comparison would be, handling, else everywhere else, 250R simply blows by.

Happy Buying

^^
P.S. - I had the pleasure of owning a P-180 V1 <Karizma-R <R15 and to me, R15 is a H-U-G-E step ahead of both Motorcycles when you consider overall performance, the way it brakes/handles/cruises, it simply outclasses any Indian Motorcycle in production today.

Last edited by Sheel : 15th October 2010 at 17:59.
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Old 15th October 2010, 18:20   #4
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@RX135 - You're exactly in my position & I've only one word to say - 250R, nothing more, nothing less. Anyway, will go through your post in details for my justification

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
  • Be fast
  • Mile cruncher. Something which can do 110-120 for hours in relaxed manner (not top speed).
  • Reliable (and possibly serviceable).
250R is sufficiently faster than any Indian bike & can do comfortable 140 & 120 as per your spec; PBK takes the servicing very seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
P220: Not a fan of Hamara Bajaj. Looking for refinement and long term reliability both. May be I am from very old school of thought, but Pulsar didn't fit in that scheme. Can be wrong.
Good; same as mine; the bike rattles after a while & that's the case with most Bajaj family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
R15: Doesn't feel like substantial upgrade over RX notwithstanding technology packed in.
Yap; technology is good; but single cylinder & 150CC...aargh!!! c'mon how long can we take it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Apache 180: Same as R15.
Well, good looks, but servicing can be an issue; not a good feedback with TVS A.S.S; once again the single cylinder concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Ninja: Closest match for what I am looking, but somehow feel 3 Lakh is rip off for this bike, especially considering R15 retails to 1.08.
I don't think its a rip off; 1.5 Lakhs for a home grown single cylinder air cooled 500CC with age old technologies & 10 months of waiting period with all quality niggles & FI exposed to weather is much rip off considering the latest technology, no quality niggles & a reliable Japanese engineering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Mahindra Mojo: 26PS is good enough to consider, but looks horrible. Reliability questionable at this moment.
Forget the looks, the price that one needs to pay is 1.75 Lakhs. Aren't you seeing this as a rip off? Also, they need to first establish themselves & besides no one knows how Garware motors will support as its a new area of business for them too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Honda 250cc: Anything coming over in Diwali? Is it worth waiting for?
With Diwali approaching harldy 3 weeks from now, there're no news, anyway, Ninja's are available off the shelf now days, so nothing's gonna happen even if one waits for 3 weeks & book a Ninja if Honda 250CC doesn't turn up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Yamaha 250+: Anything in near future? Honestly, I don't have much hope there.
There're speculations on Fazer 250, but now days even the speculations are not there in this area; focus is entirely on Honda 250

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Imported 250/400cc: Totally unknown territory. Where to buy/how much to pay/which one to buy? Though I am more than willing to explore this one.
First question is - service & availability of spares.
A friend of mine had a crash on his Ninja a week ago which was no fault of his; he took it to PBK, charges were hefty, but insurance covered. Now imagine the same case with the imported ones, no reliable place to get serviced & the parts has to be ordered from abroad. Oh!!! considering the import duty of 100% paying to the Govt - now that's what I call a rip off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Any help? While P220 appears like VFM, I am looking for something more than that, while Baby Ninja is pricey for what it offers (strictly my opinion).
Yes, a difficult choice here; P220's can scream at 140 while Ninja's do it easily. Now forget the top speeds, the handling of 250R is no way comparable to the Indian motorcycles & not to mention the riding pleasure on the 250R.

Last but not the least, 250R seems to be most practical motorcycle for avid bikers who like to speed. Reason being, it offers a top speed of 160+ easily & considering the Indian traffic conditions & morons turning highways to drawing room, the 250R offers a perfect blend on speed, ride & money.

EDIT - @Sheel - Thanks for the pointer; appreciate it.

Last edited by aargee : 15th October 2010 at 18:37.
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Old 15th October 2010, 18:21   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
^^
P.S. - I had the pleasure of owning a P-180 V1 <Karizma-R <R15 and to me, R15 is a H-U-G-E step ahead of both Motorcycles when you consider overall performance, the way it brakes/handles/cruises, it simply outclasses any Indian Motorcycle in production today.

Thats not quite right , the 220 ,or the fastest Indian should take the cake . Want to drag and see .

Also comparing (P-180 V1 <Karizma-R <R15) is not right , the P180 is 65k and R15 around almost double . Its not apples to apples . You get what you pay for . For that price ,I look for whole lot ,not just a little bit more.

@ Rx135 .Take a look at Pre-owned Ninja 250 R . Some of them are available at 2 lakhs .If you get that it should fix everything .

Last edited by black12rr : 15th October 2010 at 18:23.
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Old 15th October 2010, 18:26   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black12rr View Post
Thats not quite right , the 220 ,or the fastest Indian should take the cake . Want to drag and see .
Performance for me isn't 0-100 and top speed.
If a Motorcycle can't stop/corner as well, whats the point?
Dynamic ability is of ut-most importance in my automobiles.

Your id says it all, I am liter class fan anyday over anything over and above 1000cc+

Quote:
Also comparing (P-180 V1 <Karizma-R <R15) is not right , the P180 is 65k and R15 around almost double . Its not apples to apples . You get what you pay for .
I am talking about 2003, P-180

@aargee--you have quoted me wrong.
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Old 15th October 2010, 23:33   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
I am looking for a cruiser, which can munch miles and be fast. No, I am neither looking for Enticer/Avenger type of cruiser nor RE Bullets.
Well since most have suggested the Ninja already i shall say this. Its a perfect bike to cruise at high speeds, is very reliable, serviceable, etc. etc.

Mile muncher yes, but you'll have to consider the terrain you're gonna ride the ninja on. A bad road will definitely tire your back and arms and its not the best thing to munch miles on unless its on smooth tarmac.

And if you are obsessed with keeping the bike as good as new for many years, then you wont park it anywhere and everywhere, you wont allow anyone to touch it and sit on it... hell, when we rode to Ooty, we found a hotel that could provide safe and restricted parking for our bikes (even though we had alarm locks) and our needs were next in line.

But why not the Bullet is my next Q? The new Classic 500 fills all your needs IMO.
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Old 15th October 2010, 23:49   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
But why not the Bullet is my next Q? The new Classic 500 fills all your needs IMO.
Can the 500 cruise at 110-120kmph? I doubt as Electra-350 had serious reservations going above 75-80kmph.

R15 can cruise at 120kmph, but its FE will take a hit, 8000rpm (redlines at 10500rpm) in 6th translates to speeds around 110kmph and it is very happy doing it.(40kmpl)

Either 250R or
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel
If you don't have a budget and mind waiting, tons of luck to you and hats off for your patience.
My name is still quoted wrongly by aarge..
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Old 16th October 2010, 03:14   #9
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@sheel

Have you actually tried riding a Classic 500 or even a standard 350 by any chance? Coz I think the C500 can seriously cruise at more than 110 happily all day long and I know for a fact that A STANDARD BULLET 350 (the one with CI engine) happily rides at 80-90 as opposed to what your claim that it wont go beyond 75. When I say cruising at 80-90, I DO NOT mean it is the top speed. The top speed for a standard is somewhere around 100 or 105. I happen to own one and have done long rides and some of my friends who are all bullet owners, they do really long rides (one example can be Kolkata-kanyakumari-bombay-kolkata or Kolkata-ladakh-kolkata). I hope CRUISING comes into play here somewhere.

Now coming to the thread-starter, I think you are asking the heaven and earth and everything in between them and not willing to pay. In my honest opinion, the best bike for you would be a ZMA. It is a very reliable bike as opposed to a bullet. If you want to move on from single cylinders and upgrade, then I think you will have to cough up more in current scenario. Either wait for better times or pay more now.

cheers
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Old 16th October 2010, 08:53   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novice_alto View Post
@sheel

Have you actually tried riding a Classic 500 or even a standard 350 by any chance? Coz I think the C500 can seriously cruise at more than 110 happily all day long and I know for a fact that A STANDARD BULLET 350 (the one with CI engine) happily rides at 80-90 as opposed to what your claim that it wont go beyond 75. When I say cruising at 80-90, I DO NOT mean it is the top speed. The top speed for a standard is somewhere around 100 or 105. I happen to own one and have done long rides and some of my friends who are all bullet owners, they do really long rides (one example can be Kolkata-kanyakumari-bombay-kolkata or Kolkata-ladakh-kolkata). I hope CRUISING comes into play here somewhere.
cheers
No offense, but I beg to disagree with your opinion here mate. I myself am a hardcore bulleteer, but we should accept the machine's limitations. A standard 350 can do 90 or 100 for that matter but if you plan to do that all day long, then it would be the last day that you would do that! The bike feels seriously stressed at anything above 80-85 IMHO.

Coming to the 500s, I once cruised all day (literally from morning to night) in 90-100 in my stock CI500 and the result was burnt valves. Now the C5 may have some improvements, but I doubt with the current valvetrain in bullets, even the C5s can cruise at any speed above 100-105 without stressing. Having said that, there are a lot of mods that you can do to achieve a higher speed for cruising (like changing the sprocket to one tooth less) but why take all the trouble and still have the reliability issue lying in the back of your head every time you ride out? Frankly, for the thread starter's requirements, I would not suggest an Enfield.

with the current options, Ninja is the way to go..

P.S. Unless you plan to do a ladakh trip

Last edited by jingaboysr : 16th October 2010 at 09:04.
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Old 16th October 2010, 09:55   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novice_alto View Post
@sheel

Have you actually tried riding a Classic 500 or even a standard 350 by any chance?
My riding impressions--
RE - Motoroids Forums

Royal Enfield Electra - India Travel Forum, BCMTouring

Between what made you think I was just blabbering stuff?

Mods, I am not sure whether external links are allowed, if not, please do the needful and let me know


Rest of your queries have been answered by jingaboysr and as I don't ride RE's frequently, rest of the questions can be answered by RE riders like V12, jingaboysr.

RE's are cult Motorcycles and you really can't compare them with anything in India.
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Old 16th October 2010, 10:06   #12
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My advice is to cough up and stick to a Ninja or any other vehicle sold by a manufacturer rather than a grey market import. Reliablility and service will be a problem as you have no idea of the history of the vehicle or if it was imported legally. Many documents can be forged fabricated so unless you know the imported directly I would stick away from an import given the recent news about seizing imports.
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Old 16th October 2010, 10:24   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Can the 500 cruise at 110-120kmph?
Yes it can, but the rider has to be very very strong in doing. I personally rode my friend's C5; it was amazing upto 80 Kmph & beyond that it only vibrates like mad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
My name is still quoted wrongly by aarge..
Ok, I've a bad eyes, can you show me where I went wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by jingaboysr View Post
but if you plan to do that all day long, then it would be the last day that you would do that
Exactly my point

Quote:
Originally Posted by jingaboysr View Post
with the current options, Ninja is the way to go..
+1 or R15 to compromise on few other things

I'm quite surprised by @Adi's comment biased towards C5. I thought you would suggest a 250R to him.

And guys, we're suggesting RE's to RX135 despite he mentioned
Quote:
No, I am neither looking for Enticer/Avenger type of cruiser nor RE Bullets
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Old 16th October 2010, 10:46   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Yes it can, but the rider has to be very very strong in doing. I personally rode my friend's C5; it was amazing upto 80 Kmph & beyond that it only vibrates like mad.
It can cruise, but vibrates.. do they both go hand in hand?

I would wait for some unbiased guy to answer about the cruising capability of 500Cl in between 110-120kmph for miles on end w/o a bother in the world.

A 250R can, but others...not sure.


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Ok, I've a bad eyes, can you show me where I went wrong
You have edited them, Thanks
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Old 16th October 2010, 13:24   #15
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Hi rx135,
All of these bikes have their own pros and cons. The price to package ratio is always important, not to mention mileage. You will have to decide how to balance it.

P-220: I have a 5 yr old 180-ug2 and it has started to show its age but I can still ride at 90-100 for the whole day (I have done it) and everything would still be together at the end of the day.
The P-220 is now available without the useless fairing and I think it's a complete bang for the buck. It can surely do the relaxed 110 that you are looking at.

I believe you should ride all of these bikes once, and then talk about the specific likes/dislikes about each bike here so you can make a better decision. If you throw an open question like this, we could discuss till kingdom come and not be able to decide on a bike: the passionate people that we are.

All the best!
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