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Old 27th October 2010, 16:53   #16
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Originally Posted by black12rr View Post
Single cylinder ,less parts ,less headache, if I can get 30 bhp from single cylinder why have twin .More parts more headache. Even if it even revs till 10 K thats fine , more power at lesser RPM ,good .
I dont get why do you need to rev till 14K RPM ? .Is it any good ?

@ Sheel is this good enuff ? , please certify ,your certification is a must for success of the bike .
Which motorcycle is a 12RR? Its a 12R. okay, excuse for OT.

Revving all the way to 14,000rpm or more is more than welcome. You get to experience the kind of banshee power the bike makes.

Yesterday, past 11 at night and for kicks, on my R15 I was shifting when the tacho was about to hit 10,000rpm and need I say, it amazed and blew me away.

The difference between the power arriving at 10,000 and 14,000 would be like driving a petrol Car and a Diesel. You prefer torque, most do. But then nothing would equate to revving past 14,000rpm (I wish I had a 2 stroke which revved till 19,000 rpm and was dead below 10K). Need we say which would be faster?(at whatever spec sheet is available)

The attachment you provided is of 250R? I think not, because this is what the Thai press release reads=
Quote:
The light and compact frame, made of a highly-rigid diamond shape in a truss structure,
Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Customer 2: Will pick up the CBR 250R because he cannot afford a Ninja 250R. (might overlap with the above statement as well)

Customer 3: Will walk past the CBR 250R and buy a Ninja because he 'knows' the difference between 2-pot and single-pot motors.
Needless to say, Customer 1, 2 and 4 will be seen straddling their crotch-rockets wearing floaters and balancing their helmets on the top of their heads.
If someone can't afford a 250R, would he/she still be labelled as a poser?
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Old 27th October 2010, 16:54   #17
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Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post

A single cylinder engine will feel strained at higher rpm's. Take a test ride of the Ninja 250 and the ZMR and you'll know what i am talking about. (Its not a real comparison but then a bit of an idea why a twin is better than a single).
Saar ,please compare apples to apples .

Honda is 250cc DOHC ,FI ,Liquid cooled and where is zeema ? .But I think I got what you are saying , please dont over take me .
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Old 27th October 2010, 17:03   #18
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You sure aren't making my life easy Aditya, are you?

My only gripe with the 250R is its frame, I wish it was a twin-spar.(I am yet to ride, but a twin spar chassis WILL be a better handler compared to diamond-frame 250R sports)

The CBR 150R will have a twin-spar. Lets see how the market responds and what developments happen in the days to come by, as Hyosung is also expected to come in.

Link-- Garware Motors - Hyosung GT650R FI and Hyosung ST7 FI for India: All you need to know
Thats good news but Kinetic was atleast a known brand. Garware Motors??? Are they going to be just dealers. Can not imagine a pan-india presence for A.S.S. Not sure. Doesn't sound like its going to change the whole A.S.S. story much. And again, why not the GT250 & 250R and their GV avatar? It could help folks like me who still hold on to their GT250s from '06. I got aftermarket stuff from US but i wish i could have a reliable source of basic spares.

Back to the Honda though. I wonder why would Honda not want to make just as much money as Kawasaki-Bajaj? Even if it costs less for them to build the bike somehow, if the Ninja continues to sell for the current price, it doesnt make any sense to me as to why Honda would want to undercut so much instead of making more profits.
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Old 27th October 2010, 17:04   #19
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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Customer 1: Will pick up the CBR 250R for the purpose of showing-off.

Customer 2: Will pick up the CBR 250R because he cannot afford a Ninja 250R. (might overlap with the above statement as well)
If someone can't afford a 250R, would he/she still be labelled as a poser?
That's precisely why I've clearly mentioned 'might' in my post. Besides, I'm sure many Ninjas out there are ridden by posers anyway. The only difference is that they can afford it. And those who can't, would settle for a CBR-250.

Posers are all over the place. Even if they can't afford a 250R, they'd go in for a 220. And someone with a keen eye would probably we able to make out the difference between a poser and a real enthusiast. Heck, there are SBKs ridden by posers!

This is going terribly OT now.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 27th October 2010 at 17:05.
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Old 27th October 2010, 17:14   #20
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Originally Posted by Nilesh5417 View Post
Thats good news but Kinetic was atleast a known brand. Garware Motors??? Are they going to be just dealers. Can not imagine a pan-india presence for A.S.S. Not sure. Doesn't sound like its going to change the whole A.S.S. story much. And again, why not the GT250 & 250R and their GV avatar? It could help folks like me who still hold on to their GT250s from '06. I got aftermarket stuff from US but i wish i could have a reliable source of basic spares.
I am aware of this Nilesh, and so wouldn't buy a Hyosung Motorcycle.
I am sold on Japs though.

Quote:
why Honda would want to undercut so much instead of making more profits.
Market-share=more profit.

Quote:
So bajaj decided to make a profit of 70000 off 1000 customers, instead of 20000 off 10,000. Same investment in terms of training, dealerships.

1 litre bike 13L on road, 250 cc - 3L. Sounds fair until you realize that the duty on 1000cc bikes is 110%, as opposed to the 11% that bajaj is paying on this bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Posers are all over the place. Even if they can't afford a 250R, they'd go in for a 220. And someone with a keen eye would probably we able to make out the difference between a poser and a real enthusiast. Heck, there are SBKs ridden by posers!

This is going terribly OT now.
Agree that there are posers everywhere, esp Bangalore on SBK's, but yes we are going way OT.

I am stopping now
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Old 27th October 2010, 17:20   #21
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Originally Posted by Nilesh5417 View Post
Back to the Honda though. I wonder why would Honda not want to make just as much money as Kawasaki-Bajaj? Even if it costs less for them to build the bike somehow, if the Ninja continues to sell for the current price, it doesnt make any sense to me as to why Honda would want to undercut so much instead of making more profits.
Thats really not much of a comparison. Simply a different approach to the business. They choose to make their profits on volume as opposed to Kawasaki Bajaj.

Quite apart from the fact that they can afford to charge significantly less due to
  1. localisation of components
  2. lack of taxation as opposed to the Ninja which is imported as a Complete Built Unit (attracting greater taxation)
There are also the points that people have raised as to this being a single cylinder engine as opposed to a twin, so its really not in the class of the Ninja.

Having said that, I'll keep myself from hoping the cost is really 1.5 (circa) until the official announcement. The Ninja was expected to retail at around 2 lakhs. Look how that one panned out..

Cheers

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Old 27th October 2010, 18:06   #22
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Source: motorcyclespecs.co.za
Honda CBR250RR


Quote:
Make Model
Honda CBR 250RYear
2011Engine
Liquid cooled, four stroke, single cylinder, DOHC, 4 valve per cylinder.

Capacity
249.4

Bore x Stroke76 x 55mm Compression Ratio 10.7: 1 Induction
Electronic fuel injection PGM-FIgnition / Starting

Max Power
26.4 hp 19.4kW @ 8500 rpmMax Torque
22.9 Nm @ 7000 rpmTransmission / Drive
6 Speed / chain
FrameDiamond; steel twin-sparFront Suspension
37mm telescopic fork, 130mm wheel travel.Rear Suspension
Pro-Link Monoshock damper, 104mm axle travel

Front Brakes
Single 296mm disc 2 piston caliperRear Brakes
Single 220mm disc 1 piston caliperFront Tyre
110/70-MC17Rear Tyre
140/70-MC17Seat Height784 mmWet-Weight
162kg (166kg C-ABS version)Fuel Capacity
13 Litres


The concept of progressing onto bigger and bigger bikes as a rider becomes more experienced is ingrained in motorcycling. For decades powerful, big-capacity machines have presented an obvious incentive to upgrade from smaller bikes as quickly as possible, offering both increased performance and huge prestige on the street. But in the 21st century the sense in doing this is becoming increasingly hard to see. Busy roads, spiralling fuel prices and the sense of responsibility we feel towards the environment all help make the lightweight and frugal small-capacity machine more relevant than ever.


Over the years CBR motorcycles of various engine sizes have come to define what a road-focused sportsbike should be; how it should perform and what it should feel like. As dynamically rewarding as a Supersports machine but with a versatility and accessibility those bikes lack, the CBR family has consistently confounded the opposition by blending the performance expert riders demand with the ease of use so critical to building riding confidence in novices.


New for 2011, the CBR250R unites the inherent virtues of a 250cc machine with the timeless CBR qualities of high performance, intuitive handling dynamics and unrivalled ease of use. The result is a machine of outstanding versatility; one able to take on any task while also delivering the excitement that makes every ride a joy. With its lightweight and very efficient single-cylinder engine, advanced chassis and striking design, the CBR250R is set to appeal to a wide range of riders. Everyone, from leisure riders to style-conscious commuters keen to save time and money will be drawn by the bike's easy handling, forgiving but powerful engine and rewarding chassis.


Development concept


While the advantages of lightweight, small-capacity motorcycles are easy to see, such machines have traditionally been compromised in several key areas. While modern riders are keen to reap the rewards of low running costs, outstanding fuel efficiency and easy handling, they are unwilling to sacrifice the sophistication, riding thrill or attractive styling of big-capacity machines. The demand therefore exists for a 250cc motorcycle that could - both in the way it looks and the riding experience it offers - be mistaken for a more expensive machine with a bigger engine.


The 2011 CBR250R is Honda's response to this demand. Twin-cylinder engines are commonplace in the 250 class but the CBR250R is designed around an all-new 249.4cm3 single-cylinder engine with liquid cooling, an efficient 4-valve DOHC cylinder head and PGM-FI fuel injection. This single-cylinder configuration makes for a lighter, more compact and more fuel-efficient powerplant that also boasts a supremely usable torque curve.


The rest of the CBR250R package is similarly balanced, combining satisfying performance with the kind of refinement and easygoing usability that make a difference on every ride. The result is extraordinary - a truly versatile 250cc sportsbike with unrivalled fuel economy.


Main features


- Powerful liquid-cooled 249.4cm3 single-cylinder engine with dual overhead camshafts and four valves for strong torque and outstanding acceleration.


- Advanced PGM-FI fuel injection for superb throttle response and impressive fuel economy.


- Diamond twin-spar steel frame with 37mm telescopic forks and Pro-Link Monoshock rear suspension for outstanding handling and ride quality.


- Stylish full fairing.


- C-ABS version with Honda's Combined Antilock Braking System for secure braking in all conditions.


- Multi-function digital instruments including speedometer, tachometer, engine temperature display, multi-segment fuel gauge and odometer/trip meter.


Ergonomic design


Instinctive riding position


The CBR250R's riding position is fundamental to its versatility, ensuring comfort and control regardless of the task at hand. It is designed around a low seat height of just 784mm, which puts riders of any stature at ease immediately since even shorter riders can easily put a supporting foot on the ground when stopping. The result is increased rider confidence and a bike that is in its element carving through traffic jams and other busy urban environments.


The position of the handlebars and footpegs works with the seat to create a sporty riding position that offers outstanding control and a feeling of being at one with the bike. At the same time rider movement is not restricted in any way. Indeed, so balanced is the riding position that even long days on the road are a joy, relaxing the body and leaving the mind free to concentrate on riding.


Outstanding manoeuvrability


Lightweight at just 162kg (166kg for the C-ABS version), the new bike's manoeuvrability is further enhanced by its perfect chassis balance. In fact, what little weight there is seems to disappear once the bike is on the move.


Full fairing cowl


Key to rider comfort when travelling long distances at speed, a full fairing with a windscreen considerably reduces windblast as well providing a degree of weather protection. The CBR250R's fairing directly contributes to the bike's ease of use, making riding less tiring and helping to maintain concentration levels.


Advanced digital instruments


The CBR250R's sophisticated ergonomics are underlined by its multi-function digital instruments, which display all the information the rider needs at a glance. The result is less time looking at the display and more attention on the road. Speed, engine revs, engine temperature, fuel level, time and an odometer/trip meter are all clearly displayed.


With the power to carry two people effortlessly, the CBR250R is a very capable pillion machine. Grab rails on the tail unit are specially designed to take gloved hands, giving passengers a secure point of contact. Beneath the pillion seat a storage area makes the CBR250R a hugely practical bike, with space for the owner's manual and toolkit that come with the bike as well as an optional U-lock, raincoat or emergency kit.


Styling


Too many sensible bikes are also sensibly styled but the CBR250R proves this needn't be the case. Unmistakably Supersports-inspired in its design, the aggressively sculpted fairing sweeps up from the front of the bike to a light and purposeful tail. The bike's lines are at once dynamic and sophisticated, communicating the machine's dual personalities: exciting small-capacity sportsbike and practical all-rounder.


The CBR250R's striking colouring concepts work with the classy and co-ordinated finishes on its chassis components. The result is a machine with the class to turn heads everywhere it goes.


Colouring concept


Asteroid Black Metallic


Black isn't traditionally regarded as an extrovert or attention-grabbing colour but the Asteroid Black Metallic CBR250R turns that preconception on its head. Perfectly reflecting the new machine's confident and sophisticated character, metallic black paint lends the CBR real presence on the road.


Pearl Blue Tricolour


Encapsulating Honda's long and glorious racing heritage in a single colour concept, the Pearl Blue Tricolour design offers sports riders a striking alternative to black. Inspired by the liveries of countless victorious Honda race bikes, this colour option is a winner in its own right.


Engine


Punchy and efficient new engine design


The heart of the new CBR250R is an all-new liquid-cooled single-cylinder engine. Employing a 4-valve cylinder head with dual overhead camshafts, the new engine was developed with an unwavering focus on efficiency and usable torque.


By reducing internal friction to a minimum, the CBR250R engine boasts both gutsy performance and extraordinary fuel economy. And while the peak power figure of 19.42kW at 8500rpm is impressive, it is the relentless torque the engine develops from very low revs that defines the riding performance. Indeed the outstanding peak torque output of 22.9Nm combined with the bike's low weight delivers class-leading acceleration, both from a standstill and in-gear. This translates into effortless traffic-beating performance and huge rider satisfaction, in town and beyond.


Single-cylinder configuration


Where many of its rivals use multi-cylinder engines, the CBR250R's single-cylinder powerplant offers many benefits. Because the number of moving parts is kept to an absolute minimum, the engine is more fuel efficient, saving the owner money at the petrol pumps. This mechanical simplicity also reduces servicing costs - another essential element in creating a hassle-free ownership experience. A single-cylinder engine is also more compact, helping create a bike that is at once lighter and more manageable than the multi-cylinder competition. Finally, because the engine is physically small, it has been positioned perfectly within the chassis for an ideal front/rear weight distribution which gives the bike superb handling.


PGM-FI


Like all the machines in the CBR family, the CBR250R employs Honda's advanced PGM-FI fuel injection system for smooth, responsive power delivery and superb fuel economy. The Electronic Control Unit works in conjunction with the bike's electronic ignition to deliver the perfect amount of fuel to the cylinder at all times. The result is an engine that really does have it all; a broad spread of power delivered with the immediacy only a fuel injection system can deliver. To ease maintenance the CBR250R uses an external fuel filter for the PGM-FI system, further reducing maintenance costs.


Six-speed transmission


As befits a machine with performance and versatility, the CBR250R uses a six-speed transmission to make light work of riding at any speed. The six ratios work with the bike's power delivery to optimise acceleration and deliver both refinement and economy when cruising.


Total reliability and low running costs


The single-cylinder engine needs very little by way of maintenance and is also very fuel efficient. It covers 27 kilometres on a litre of fuel in typical riding conditions, giving a range of over 350 kilometres from the compact 13-litre fuel tank. This class-leading fuel economy is a direct result of intensive weight-saving measures within the engine. The reciprocating parts - the piston and con-rod - are both lightweight in their design, boosting economy, and the lightweight, low-friction piston rings and the iridium spark plug also help get the most from every litre of fuel. Liquid cooling guarantees a consistent operating temperature for the engine, further enhancing economy and reliability.


Ultra-clean exhaust


The 2011 CBR250R incorporates the latest in exhaust and catalyser technology to ensure low emissions. The Tri-metal catalytic converter reduces the level of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and nitrous oxides to an absolute minimum. An oxygen sensor in the exhaust enables the engine's Electronic Control Unit to further reduce emissions by ensuring complete combustion within the engine.


Chassis


Rigid yet lightweight chassis


The engine is mounted in a steel diamond twin-spar frame. This frame configuration is lightweight, contributing to the bike's low kerb weight. It is also immensely strong, providing a rigid platform on which to mount the front and rear suspension systems. This rigidity is key to stability and swift handling, and on the new CBR250R the frame's rigidity balance has been carefully optimised for sporty dynamics and superb stability at speed. The rider and passenger seats are supported on a strong secondary frame capable of carrying a substantial load.


Advanced suspension systems


Suspension behaviour was crucial to meeting the CBR250R's brief: to provide levels of sophistication and refinement not normally found on such a competitively priced machine. The bike features a hydraulically damped 37mm fork at the front and Honda's Pro-Link Monoshock rear suspension configuration. This uses a linkage to help the Monoshock damper control the swingarm movement generated as the rear wheel moves up and down over bumps. The result is a superb ride quality combined with the poise and feedback that supports sports riding on challenging roads.


High performance wheels, tyres and brakes


The CBR250R uses big-bike wheel and tyre sizes for enhanced levels of grip and serious presence on the road. The cast wheels mount a 110/70-MC17 front tyre and a 140/70-MC17 rear tyre - purposeful rubber for a serious motorcycle.


Braking is taken care of by a large-diameter 296mm disc and a powerful dual-piston caliper at the front. At the rear a smaller 220mm disc and single-piston caliper further boost the bike's stopping capability while also offering the controlled rear-wheel braking required to perform low-speed riding manoeuvres.


Combined ABS


The new CBR250R is also available in a Combined ABS version. Honda's advanced Combined Antilock Braking System links the front brake control to the rear brake and prevents tyre slip when braking, ensuring safe and powerful deceleration in all situations. The system's ECU uses sensors to monitor the speeds of the front and rear wheels. If these sensors detect that one wheel is beginning to rotate more slowly than the other, suggesting the first hint of tyre slip, the Combined Antilock Braking System modulates the braking effort to ensure full grip is retained. Thus it maximises braking ability while retaining complete control of the bike.


Optional equipment


The sporting character and impressive versatility of the CBR250R can be further enhanced with an extensive range of optional equipment from Honda Access Europe.


- U-lock


Designed specifically to fit under the bike's seat, the tough U-lock is a strong ride-away theft deterrent.


- Seat cowl


Carbon-look seat cowl, designed to work with the strong lines of the CBR250R fairing, covers the passenger seat when riding solo for a more aggressive sports look.


- Rear seat bag


The roomy rear seat bag further enhances the everyday practicality of the CBR250R.


- Tank pad


Designed to protect the fuel tank's paintwork, the tank pad protects the back of the tank from damage through wear and tear.


- Wheel stickers


The sticker kit underlines the machine's Supersport credentials when applied to its cast wheels.





Last edited by Mpower : 27th October 2010 at 18:17.
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Old 27th October 2010, 19:44   #23
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The front reminds me of our good ZMR (FI). Yes, its quite disappointing to see a single cylinder & 250cc. Still Kwacker 250 is the best bet.

But like you say, Adi, its best VFM product for everyday commuting, provided the price is around 1.5L. But with Honda, I highly doubt on this pricing. IMO, it should be priced somewhere around 2-2.5L. These manufacturers enjoy seeing us getting confused; as R15 is available for 1L & Ninja is for 3L then there should be something in between. Hopefully this should be priced between Mojo & Kwacker 250R.
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Old 27th October 2010, 20:22   #24
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Great looking bike. If it does make it to India, I feel the pricing will be close to the Mojo because... its a Honda and makes the same power.

Mojo however, should be better because of more torque and USD forks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
My only gripe with the 250R is its frame, I wish it was a twin-spar.(I am yet to ride, but a twin spar chassis WILL be a better handler compared to diamond-frame 250R sports)

The CBR 150R will have a twin-spar. Lets see how the market responds and what developments happen in the days to come by, as Hyosung is also expected to come in.
From what I can see it is a twin spar and not a diamond.
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Old 27th October 2010, 21:23   #25
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Mojo however, should be better because of more torque and USD forks.
Mojo's USD looks like an absolute joke. Used to think that USD were made to reduce unsprung mass. Looks like Mahindra has just taken regular shocks and mounted them upside down.

Would rather go with tried and true conventional Honda technology any day of the week.
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Old 27th October 2010, 21:40   #26
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The bike looks good & I hope it does arrive on the mentioned time frame.

I have doubts on the price, even when its a single cylinder I doubt if Honda with price it this low, I mean we are talking about Honda here, when was the last time they priced any product reasonably
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Old 27th October 2010, 22:15   #27
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it looks like a baby VFR1200, so why not call it a VFR250? why is it being given the iconic CBR prefix? or am i missing something here?
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Old 27th October 2010, 22:22   #28
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Mojo's USD looks like an absolute joke. Used to think that USD were made to reduce unsprung mass. Looks like Mahindra has just taken regular shocks and mounted them upside down.
Hey Gthang, its a Paioli which is a pretty renowned brand so I would expect them to have contemporary cartritge type valving in addition to the USD feature. The rear however is non-linkage type. I guess we wait and see.
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Old 27th October 2010, 22:35   #29
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Originally Posted by shyn View Post
it looks like a baby VFR1200, so why not call it a VFR250? why is it being given the iconic CBR prefix? or am i missing something here?
VFRs have V4 engines & this one is a Single cylinder one

Also CBR stands for 'City Bike Racing' which is what this bike is & hence the naming.
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Old 27th October 2010, 22:38   #30
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Hey Gthang, its a Paioli which is a pretty renowned brand so I would expect them to have contemporary cartritge type valving in addition to the USD feature. The rear however is non-linkage type. I guess we wait and see.
Pro-Link Monoshock rear suspension.

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Great looking bike. If it does make it to India,
It will be MADE IN INDIA and ALSO exported.

Last edited by black12rr : 27th October 2010 at 22:44.
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