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Old 1st March 2011, 16:32   #286
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
there were rumours that the race color theme (red with blue and white) won't be offered here in India and only the Red+Silver and the All-Black colors would be available. @anyone who has booked as of now, any confirmation on the color availability? Also is there difference in delivery dates depending on colors? I remember when I booked the all black pulsar 220, I had to wait additional 2-3 weeks because of the demand for that color
When i booked the bike, they told i will be avaliable in 3 colors red-silver, all black and third was all red. Didnt exactly remember. I booked all black.
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Old 1st March 2011, 19:12   #287
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by -NUT-case View Post
I see a price cut for the ninja 250 on the horizon ie if they want to sell any bikes.

3L for a 250cc ! You get a 900cc Harley for a couple of lackhs more ! People will start to realize what a rippoff the ninja 250 is at the current price soon enough. It is a very good bike no doubt but it was the only 250cc till now and that is going to change .

The attitude of the HONDA folks will change fast when the competition from Suzuki and Yamaha arrive and it will sooner than later.

Btw a very nice video of the Kawasaki and honda 250r's in action together.
The video if obviously sponsored by Honda [nothing to take credit from the Honda though]

People bought Ninja for 3L because they saw value in it. Kawa stuck with 250s when no one else did. As a result they have a proven 250 mill and bike.

Another Ninja 250R ownership thread I read recently went - 'I got Ninja because of insufferable attitude of Honda dealerships' - People pay twice the price to avoid Honda dealers (not Honda bikes)

As long as Honda bikes have a waiting period, and people queuing to pay the premium, we'll suffer with their attitude.

Kawasaki are not holy either. They never gave test rides until recently. Now I see 'book your test ride online' kinda ads. [I bought my R15 without test ride too] - All these guys Yam / Honda / Kawa all need a rap on the knuckles for being rude / indifferent 'take it or leave it' attitudes.

There have been reviews on the net for Ninja vs CB 250s - You can't go bad with either of them, unless you have some niche reasons for riding. (I don't agree to the 4 points classification earlier in this thread which makes a every Ninja rider, an angel with a halo over his head)
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Old 2nd March 2011, 00:50   #288
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

I see this attitude everywhere that a person who opts for a Honda cbr250r is just doing it because he wants a superbike look and cant afford a Ninja,and those who buy a ninja are the real purists.Granted that Ninja is twin and in so many ninja threads all owners agree that its money well spent,but you cant say every prospective Cbr buyer is a poser.

The price difference between the CBR and the Kawa is above a 1 lakh and in motorbike world thats a lot.And there are many serious bikers who might want to go from 150s to a powerful bike but cant come up with that extra lakh.

This might be a noob question but i really want to ask(keeping aside cbr vs ninja) in general from a mechanical point of view:

What advantages does a twin cylinder engine have over a single cylinder engine for the same displacement?

Last edited by avishar : 2nd March 2011 at 00:51.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 11:55   #289
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by avishar View Post
I see this attitude everywhere that a person who opts for a Honda cbr250r is just doing it because he wants a superbike look and cant afford a Ninja,and those who buy a ninja are the real purists.
Oh common! One should have at least some bragging rights after spending almost double the money

Quote:
What advantages does a twin cylinder engine have over a single cylinder engine for the same displacement?
As I can quickly think of, much better load balancing, more linear power, less vibrations.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 18:19   #290
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by avishar View Post
What advantages does a twin cylinder engine have over a single cylinder engine for the same displacement?
From what i have read difference between a single and a twin of the same capacity:

Twin Cylinder
Adv

- HIgher redline RPM
- Higher topspeed
- Less vibrations near redline and at higher rpm
- Less strain to the engine on cruising at higer RPM near redline for prolonged duration as on a highway

Disadv
- Less low end torque at slower speeds and lower rpm
- Requires frequent gear changes to keep the engine in its powerband
- Requires constant input from accelerator to keep the engine at higher rpms
- Engine is costlier to maintain
- Engine is costlier to produce
- Is slightly less fuel efficient

Single
Adv

- More low end torque
- Provides more linear torque requiring less changes in gear to get required acceleration
- Slightly more fuel efficient
- Cheaper to manufacture
- Cheaper to maintain

Disadv

- More vibrations at higher rpm ( Honda says for cbr250r - Smoothing out the Single’s inherent vibes is a counterbalanced shaft)
- A slightly lower top end speed
- A slightly lower redline rpm
- Feels strained at higher rpm near redline especially on sustained high rpm cruising
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Old 2nd March 2011, 18:57   #291
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

@NUT-case Thank you for that detailed explanation.

So it looks like single engines and twin are as different as chalk from cheese.Twin engines have qualities that make them more appropriate for performance/track use and also as a long distance tourer.

Single engines are better in city traffic with more low end torque but sacrificing power and top end.

Obviously there are tons of other factors that determine a bikes prowess like chassis design,weight,suspension etc.
In most ownerships thread though most owners have said the Ninja has very good low end torque as well,so it seems you get the best of both worlds in a ninja.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 21:58   #292
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by avishar View Post
1.Twin engines have qualities that make them more appropriate for performance/track use and also as a long distance tourer.

2.Single engines are better in city traffic with more low end torque but sacrificing power and top end.
Point 1 , "yes" the ninja is good as a tourer and track bike but does that mean it is unsuitable for city use ? Ninja owners might disagree

Point 2 , Partly "yes" the CBR according to most reviews will be more suitable for city traffic as compared to the ninja .

The top speed might be less but more torque = more power when you need it . So it is not sacrificing in power at all! unless you are talking about overtaking a car doing 130 Km/h on the highway.



Quote:
Originally Posted by avishar View Post
In most ownerships thread though most owners have said the Ninja has very good low end torque as well,so it seems you get the best of both worlds in a ninja.
Most ninja owners are riding a 250 twin for the first time, upgrading from a 100 - 200 cc bike. So for them it will obviously be more torqky than what they are used to.

They have not ridden the cbr250r as yet, so what do they compare it to ??

A few superbike owners (600 -1000cc) i have talked to who have ridden the ninja 250 find it lacking in initial pickup and acceleration.

So in effect you have to wait for the CBR250 launch before you decide if the ninja is the best of both worlds or not .

Last edited by -NUT-case : 2nd March 2011 at 22:00.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 22:43   #293
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by -NUT-case View Post
From what i have read difference between a single and a twin of the same capacity:

...
What you have outlined is difference between the Ninja250 twin and CBR250 single....not necessarily generic twin vs single.

Last edited by Zappo : 3rd March 2011 at 01:17.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 01:13   #294
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
What you have outlined is difference between the Ninja250 twin and CBR250 single....not necessarily generic twin vs single.
Naturally the differences will be common as basically these 2 bikes are using the 2 different types of engines we are talking about.

Motorcycle engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/school-SectionSix.htm#SCME

Please read under single cylinder engines.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 03:57   #295
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by -NUT-case View Post
Naturally the differences will be common as basically these 2 bikes are using the 2 different types of engines we are talking about.
Please read under single cylinder engines.
Thats exactly what I'm saying is NOT the case.

Take a look at the specs of the CRF250R single and how similar it is to the Ninja 250 twin.

Last edited by Mpower : 3rd March 2011 at 07:50.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 16:11   #296
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

CBR250R performance and after sales support is yet to be proven in India.

Better to wait and watch on sidelines with ur existing 2-wheelers how things shape up in the 250CC bike space in next 6-months.

Then take a plunge with your money

I have been riding a Honda Eterno-4Gear 150CC MotoScooter since 2004,0 maintenance indeed,trouble free 14K km clocked.

Looking forward to same ease & comfort from the CBR250R

RE C5 was my choice @ 1.5 lakhs however with the massive maintenance its only for the core handened RE fans-shall miss the 40NM torque .

Kawasaki Ninja 250R is expensive at 3 Lakh+

Leaves me with Honda CBR250R ABS at 1.7 lakhs
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Old 3rd March 2011, 20:08   #297
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Thats exactly what I'm saying is NOT the case.

Take a look at the specs of the CRF250R single and how similar it is to the Ninja 250 twin.
The engine of the CRF 250r is superior to the ninjas parallel twin in all respects. It develops better torque and and more HP at max rpm compared to the ninja.

Does that mean that single cylinders are better than twin cylinders ?

The CRF250r starts at a cost of 7000$ . Weighs almost half less than the ninja at 100 kilos and develops more power due to much better built engine and materials which makes it much costlier.

And it is a dirt bike. So vibrations and fuel economy is not a concern.

They could have made the CBR250 highline more than the ninja 250 but the cost of producing the engine would have gone up as well which would beat the purpose .

The reason it would be costlier would be because they would have to spend more to overcome the inherent weaknesses of the single cylinder.

A v-twin is a much better than even a parallel twin . So i wish one of the others like suzuki or yamaha or even hyusung come out with a 250 v-twin !

Last edited by -NUT-case : 3rd March 2011 at 20:42.
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Old 5th March 2011, 00:37   #298
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

I recently saw the bike in thailand and am very tempted to cancel my RE 350 Classic booking for this. This bike looks really good and has presence.
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Old 5th March 2011, 02:25   #299
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by -NUT-case View Post
The engine of the CRF 250r is superior to the ninjas parallel twin in all respects.
OK, that exactly what I was trying to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -NUT-case View Post
The CRF250r starts at a cost of 7000$ . Weighs almost half less than the ninja at 100 kilos and develops more power due to much better built engine and materials which makes it much costlier.

And it is a dirt bike. So vibrations and fuel economy is not a concern.

The reason it would be costlier would be because they would have to spend more to overcome the inherent weaknesses of the single cylinder.
Your original statement talked about generic qualities of twin vs single.

Anyway, it has v little to do with cost. Both CBR and CRF both are liquid cooled, 4 valve, all aluminum engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -NUT-case View Post
A v-twin is a much better than even a parallel twin .
Check out the Comet 250.

Last edited by Mpower : 5th March 2011 at 02:27.
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Old 5th March 2011, 07:41   #300
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Default re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!


IMO Kawasaki are not famous for their small displacement engines (< 500 cc ). So Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki will be safe bets, in that order.

Also Bajaj service support for the Ninja may "blossom" in to a FIAT-TATA kind of story in the long term.

Last edited by Gansan : 5th March 2011 at 07:42.
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