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Old 10th March 2011, 22:44   #46
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

Here is a totally different take on this.

Go for a Bullet.

Life is short. You got to ride a Pulsar. Now get a taste of Bullet too. It has not got cult status just like that.

A Leica M9, A Bullet, A Palio S10....List goes on.

P.S: I ride a Pulsar.
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Old 10th March 2011, 23:44   #47
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

I own a Bullet 500 CI and a Pulsar 180(the older one with the wire wheels). Have toured extensively with the 500, and did a trip to the himalayas last year on the Pulsar 180.

So I totally understand your issues with the ergonomics of the Pulsar. I had the same problem when I got the bike. The pressure on my wrists meant anything more than 30 minutes on the bike became a torture session. It doesn't seem to bother everyone, but I had a tough time, and my brother who used it for a while had the same complaint. You just feel like getting off the bike after a while.

So before I went on the himalaya trip, I got myself a handle from the first generation Pulsar 150. A mechanic in Hyderabad was able to find a used one for me. Cost me a couple of hundred bucks, but the difference in terms of ergonomics was worth a million bucks. The old 150 handlebar is a bit taller, so you no longer stand on your hands. Just a little bit maybe, but nowhere close to what it is otherwise. I think you should at least give this a shot before you get yourself a new bike. If nothing, for the sake of finding out how it is with a taller handle. You'll discover it changes the character of the vehicle completely. Costs you peanuts anyway. I also got my seat padded a little extra for 300 bucks to handle touring duties, but thats not entirely necessary unless you're doing very long distances.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't go in for the Bullet. its vintage, but unlike a real vintage, you don't have to treat it with kid gloves. The best of both worlds in some ways. But, from your post, it looks like you're looking for a bike to use for running around town. For that purpose, the Bullet is an absolute disaster. That bike is happiest on the open road, and really suffers in the city. If touring is your gig and you've never owned a Bullet, then you should give it a shot. Otherwise stay away. It is a handful to maintain, a pain to drive in town, and keeps trying to break your leg. But once you're on the highway its all love and affection. The ergonomics aren't perfect, but much better than the Pulsar for sure. You can ride for 2 weeks and still be smiling. Its surprisingly reliable, although its very difficult to keep it in perfect tune. But I really doubt the possibility of getting a good bullet under 50K. Even if you do, you'll be crossing that budget if you include the repairs that you'll need to do.

See, the bullet will make you sing in your helmet on a good day in the ghats. Literally. No other bike can do that in this price range. A Harley possibly, but I'm speculating.

The most practical option is probably the Karizma though. Haven't ridden it myself, but it seems to have the right ergonomics and the long legs needed for touring, along with superb practicality around town. I've been thinking of getting myself one(I live across two cities, so I get to have two of everything). You'll get a good used one for about 45K, and thats superb value in my mind.

Its like this in my mind. Plenty of people will disagree.

For running around town, or doing the Ladakh/Spiti circuit, I'd take the Karizma or a Pulsar.

For touring everywhere else, its the Bullet.

Have fun figuring it out.
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Old 10th March 2011, 23:51   #48
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

Whoa! I am surprised (pleasantly) as to how quickly everyone has put in their thoughts out here. It seems RE generates as much sentiments as Fiats on this forum!

Firstly, regarding putting any two-wheeler on stand. My late uncle had taught me the first thing about two-wheelers at the age of twelve. His golden words were:
"Kick-starting a two wheeler and putting it on the main stand: both are about technique and not strength."
I still believe in that philosophy even while starting my friend's 1968 Jawa.

I think there is divided opinion on this forum about the reliability of REs as far as using it on a day to day basis. Opinion swings each way but it is generally accepted that you need a good mechanic. I do have one, but I have to stick to the ASC till warranty cover remains. That's a problem.

Let me assess my situation this way: Staying so far off, I will be having lesser time than I have to day to devote to the bike. Currently I service the bike once in 6 months (and ride for barely 500 km in between). I am OK with a service once in 2-3 months. At 80-100 km per day, my car will also require a service every two month. I don't mind increasing the car service interval by riding more.

Regarding tiredness and B2B traffic: I am notorious (!) and cursed by other bikers on the road for riding my Pulsar like a car, not changing lanes, keeping too much space in front and not utilising the manoevrability at all. Sometimes, Santro drivers squeeze in where I don't. So I am sure I won't lose much if I shift to an RE in terms of city driveability.

What I want to know what is the toll on your body (especially my poor palms and ankles) in B2B traffic due to a heavy clutch / brake / gearshift action? (compared to other bikes?).

My Pulsar is on the market as I have explained earlier. For a new RE, I have almost decided the Electra is the best choice. For a used one, well, that's a different game altogether....
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Old 11th March 2011, 02:36   #49
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

I have owned multiple bikes (Yamaha rx 100, KB125, LML Select, Pulsar, RE TBTS) over the last 2 decades and heres my 2 cents.

First thing first - dont go by hear say; experience first hand. In God we trust, rest should have data.
An RE as it is made out (mostly by those who go by hear-say) is not a maintenance freak. It definitely needs a lil (just a lil) more attention like a leaking oil seal or a neutral amongst gears or the main stand not retracting unless kicked or not enough charge in the battery for the self. but i feel these are more of ignorance issues from Mr Lal and company rather than the product.

An RE (low rpm, linear torque) is for a more relaxed riding suiting your riding habits. However; since you are looking for long distance riding; the order of preference should be TBTS (low & relaxed seating; comfortable saddle seat) > Electra / Std (relaxed seating) > classic (upright seating & horrible spring seat).

The new engines are lighter, tractable, responsive & trouble-free compared to the CIs. My suggestion stay away from an old make unless pristinely restored & available from a trust worthy source.

If niggles are what you dont like then stay away from the RE. An RE is like a partner - it needs love and attention. Most of the other current gens are like mates - they will run along without much ado.

I too am in Delhi and currently ride a TBTS. PM me if you need any help.
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Old 11th March 2011, 04:04   #50
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

Financially RE does not make sense for running every day.but ride quality on long rides is best on the bullet (97 model bought in 2006.no problems other than regular maintenance).good wide seat,ergonomic riding condition.i have both bikes and a vespa scooter,i prefer scooter to the pulsar for short trips.You mentioned a good mechanic.best option is to go to the mechanic and buy a used bullet the mechanic regularly services,may take a month or two but he knows which bikes are in what condition.This suggestion is valid only if you know that the mechanic will act in your best interests.BTW this is my first post here!
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Old 11th March 2011, 08:18   #51
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

Quote:
What I want to know what is the toll on your body (especially my poor palms and ankles) in B2B traffic due to a heavy clutch / brake / gearshift action? (compared to other bikes?).
Its the same toll you will go through on any bike. As i said previously i find gear changing easiest in the old CI engines which come with a neutral lever. This means i am only using the downward motion most of the time to up shift.


The old CI engines these days are not just "buys" but investment with decent returns. I paid around 65 for my 500. I have seen similar condition bulls selling for close to 80-85K.

350cc in the worst of condition are sold at 25K. If you can get some running condition 350 at 25K it means you can spend another 30k and still break even if you plan to sell it. Great to own a CI engines now hehe
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Old 11th March 2011, 11:06   #52
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

There are lots of myths Bull is surrounded with

Its very easy to start a bull am talking about the CI here with a half kick you can start it, if the bike is tuned/timed properly.

I have hardly seen bulls leaking, this on a well maintained once and the once.

Bulls dont need to be serviced, both my bikes are serviced 6months once and trust me their is no reliability issue cause of that...

Bulls dont like nose to nose traffic esp my 535 it heats up but in normal traffic no issues at all when it comes to handling part.

On bad roads bulls ride the best, while other bikes give you the scare of life i feel really comfy riding on my bull.
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Old 11th March 2011, 11:31   #53
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
First thing first - dont go by hear say; experience first hand. In God we trust, rest should have data.
An RE as it is made out (mostly by those who go by hear-say) is not a maintenance freak.
I'm a little bit offended - ok not offended, surprised - by what you say. I respect your experience, but others also speak from experience, not "hear say" as you put it. When you say others need to present "data", what do you need? Do you want to see a copy of my RC book and service records, as a proof that I owned it and faced problems? If what you're saying is true, everyone should buy every single vehicle on the market before making any decisions, and all the information on all online forums is just "hear say".
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Old 11th March 2011, 21:10   #54
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

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Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
I don't think RE requiring more maintenance than other bikes is just a preset notion, it is a fact. Not to say it doesn't have its virtues or that it isn't heavenly to ride, but it is also true that other brands like Honda and Yamaha don't really require the rider to "understand" the bike... isn't it? .
Well, it depends on how you see it rajushank84 .

Take my case: The first thing that I wanted to buy with my hard earned money (used to be paid peanuts..literally when I started off my career) was a bullet. I had absolutely zero knowledge about the machine. I got it not because I could afford it, but it was parked right in the head for a long time.
A mechanic here in Bangalore took me for a royal ride (details posted in another thread) to the tune of~25k. Learned the hard way and got the bike completely re-furbished from my hometown in kerala. I spent a month working with the mech and in the process learned a thing or two. Its been more than 8 years now and touchwood, the bike runs butter smooth. The only expense till day were two sets of tyres, an oversize pinion wheel, cam wheels shims, chain sprockets apart from the normal spares and consumables. My bike isnt anything special. Just that every part was chosen based on well informed decisions. For example, Samrat makes aluminum alloy rocker arms which weighs less than the OE ones and exerts much lesser pressure on the valves and guides.

Around the same time, a friend got an Yamaha RX135. Once, the oil pump failed and he never sensed the engine crying for help, until it seized completely. Now, the RX was and still is one of the most reliable and low maintenance Japanese two strokers around. Its a very basic understanding that every damn IC engine needs oil for lubrication, which he conveniently ignored.

Ofcourse, the bullet is not a "fill it, shut it, forget it" bike like how they claim on a Boxer or a Splendor. The engine, drive train and design is from the by-gone era, and we have to admit that it just cannot be perfected to the present day standards, though the UCE is much better in that aspect I feel. People may flame me for saying this, but the bullet (CI 350/500/535) is not everybody's cup of tea.

Last edited by jeeva : 11th March 2011 at 21:20.
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Old 12th March 2011, 11:48   #55
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post
Regarding tiredness and B2B traffic: I am notorious (!) and cursed by other bikers on the road for riding my Pulsar like a car, not changing lanes, keeping too much space in front and not utilising the manoevrability at all. Sometimes, Santro drivers squeeze in where I don't. So I am sure I won't lose much if I shift to an RE in terms of city driveability.
hey, you have company.
me too drive my 2 wheeler like that in maddening city roads where many drive as if they were a snake.

Actually i'm also in the same dilemma as you are. I recently shifted to the outskirts of my city and i can no longer take the super convenient public transport, as this place has hardly any. My problem is, the last 3 km stretch near my home has horrible roads and my current Activa can't handle such roads. So me too caught in a dilemma between an used Bullet or a new-age 150kg comfortable bike like Hunk or Pulsar180 or FZ.

Have driven Bullets many years back and it wasn't uncomfortable to manuover. Did a TD of FZ and Hunk. FZ felt too light like any other 100cc bike. Hunk felt the closest to the Bullet but the seats and handlebar aren't as comfy. I'm 5'8" and weigh 64kg with an already damaged spine. Will be watching this thread.

Last edited by Daewood : 12th March 2011 at 11:57.
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Old 12th March 2011, 13:16   #56
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeva View Post
Take my case: The first thing that I wanted to buy with my hard earned money (used to be paid peanuts..literally when I started off my career) was a bullet. I had absolutely zero knowledge about the machine. I got it not because I could afford it, but it was parked right in the head for a long time.
Same here. Back in 2003, when I started as a Trainee, fresh out of Post-Grad school, this was my first acquisition. I started my career in Dec 2002, and bought the RETB in March 2003.
Have not repented that decision, ever.
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Old 13th March 2011, 09:25   #57
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

Brother go for the Bullet, nothing competes with the feel, ride, thump & comfort it gives, i got my RE Electra in 2005, its a great machine to own .

Today is sunday and after writing this i am going to wash it, polish it, wear my helmet and glasses and go for a ride to a destination i still dont know, the reason is simple , its my baby which loves me more then i luv her. Soon i will be posting a pictorial thread of my ownership and delight. One thing i can bet upon is that you will never repent your decision.

As far as purchase decision is concerned, i would suggest you to look for a bike in good condition Electra or Std. 2005-06-07-08 model, they may be a little costly but they really feel much powerful as compared to the new RE . Go ahead your baby is waiting for you somewhere someplace.Best of luck.
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Old 13th March 2011, 11:57   #58
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
I have owned multiple bikes (Yamaha rx 100, KB125, LML Select, Pulsar, RE TBTS) over the last 2 decades and heres my 2 cents.
It would be interesting to hear how you rate the Bullet against the Rx100 and Pulsar in terms of ownership. The KB125, though fast, seemed to be a very unrefined bike when I rode it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
[i]First thing first - dont go by hear say; experience first hand.
It's going to be an expensive experience, costing upwards a lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
It definitely needs a lil (just a lil) more attention like a leaking oil seal or a neutral amongst gears or the main stand not retracting unless kicked or not enough charge in the battery for the self.
I thought a false neutral was a "feature" on the Bullet, not an "issue".

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
but i feel these are more of ignorance issues from Mr Lal and company rather than the product.
Ultimately it affects the product, not just the company. I think RE is good at marketing a product which has limited outstanding qualities but a large number of flaws which could be fixed easily, but that's material for a separate thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
An RE (low rpm, linear torque) is for a more relaxed riding suiting your riding habits. However; since you are looking for long distance riding; the order of preference should be TBTS (low & relaxed seating; comfortable saddle seat) > Electra / Std (relaxed seating) > classic (upright seating & horrible spring seat).
Thanks for putting it so clearly. Not many recommend the TBTS for me considering my 5'-6" 58 kg frame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
The new engines are lighter, tractable, responsive & trouble-free compared to the CIs. My suggestion stay away from an old make unless pristinely restored & available from a trust worthy source.
Delhi second-hand market is very shady, so I suppose I will be better off with a new one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
If niggles are what you dont like then stay away from the RE. An RE is like a partner - it needs love and attention. Most of the other current gens are like mates - they will run along without much ado.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeva View Post
Ofcourse, the bullet is not a "fill it, shut it, forget it" bike like how they claim on a Boxer or a Splendor.
All bikes need love and attention. The Pulsar needs one full day every 2nd-3rd month (or 6 months if you ride less like I do now) for every thing: service, chain, electricals, cleaning, wheel alignment etc etc. I give that time happily and have been rewarded with a "zero-downtime", "zero-stopping" experience. I know a lot of other Pulsars which have not been like that because of the owners taking the "fill-it, shut-it, forget-it" approach too far.

Most of my friends who bought their Indo-Jap bikes around my time and used them in "fill-it, shut-it, forget-it" mode are already done and through with their bikes. Those bikes are in no condition to be ridden anymore. They say it is because they have moved on to cars.

Mine is the only one which is in perfect running condition (except for a dented tank) even three years after my having "moved on" to the car and doing only 500-1000 km a year on the bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
I too am in Delhi and currently ride a TBTS. PM me if you need any help.
Thanks for your help, I am overwhelmed by the response of people wanting to help personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drsingh View Post
Financially RE does not make sense for running every day.
My question is why? I drive my car for 17-19 kpl of diesel @ Rs 37.75/- per litre or Rs 2.10/- per kilometre. The bike will give me around 30 kpl of petrol @ Rs. 60.00/- per litre, which is also Rs 2.00/- per kilometre. It's not cheaper than the car but it is equivalent. If I drive 600 km every week, I can easily split it between the two vehicles and delay the service interval on either of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
The old CI engines these days are not just "buys" but investment with decent returns. I paid around 65 for my 500. I have seen similar condition bulls selling for close to 80-85K.

350cc in the worst of condition are sold at 25K. If you can get some running condition 350 at 25K it means you can spend another 30k and still break even if you plan to sell it. Great to own a CI engines now hehe
I am aware of all the calculations, but I have figured even the second-hand route will cost me Rs 50,000/- and a lot of trouble on the paperwork front. In Delhi, it is impossible to ride a bike without getting stopped by the Police nowadays for checking the papers. I need to have a perfectly street-legal bike and owning a new one will always solve that problem easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lohithrao View Post
Its very easy to start a bull am talking about the CI here with a half kick you can start it, if the bike is tuned/timed properly.

I have hardly seen bulls leaking, this on a well maintained once and the once.

Bulls dont need to be serviced, both my bikes are serviced 6months once and trust me their is no reliability issue cause of that...
Your perspective is that a Bull is as easy to own as any other bike if you maintain it properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeva View Post
Take my case: The first thing that I wanted to buy with my hard earned money (used to be paid peanuts..literally when I started off my career) was a bullet. I had absolutely zero knowledge about the machine. I got it not because I could afford it, but it was parked right in the head for a long time.
A mechanic here in Bangalore took me for a royal ride (details posted in another thread) to the tune of~25k. Learned the hard way and got the bike completely re-furbished from my hometown in kerala.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
I started my career in Dec 2002, and bought the RETB in March 2003.
I have similar feelings about my Pulsar, it was the first expensive thing I bought with my hard-earned money. I wish I could retain both bikes, but I hate to have things which I can't maintain. I haven't really been able to convince myself emotionally to let go of the Pulsar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeva View Post
but the bullet (CI 350/500/535) is not everybody's cup of tea.
So the CIs are not for everyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daewood View Post
hey, you have company.
me too drive my 2 wheeler like that in maddening city roads where many drive as if they were a snake.
Good to know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daewood View Post
So me too caught in a dilemma between an used Bullet or a new-age 150kg comfortable bike like Hunk or Pulsar180 or FZ.
The Hunk is more comfortable than the Pulsar. I can vouch for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NST440 View Post
Today is sunday and after writing this i am going to wash it, polish it, wear my helmet and glasses and go for a ride to a destination i still dont know
I know that feeling. You've made me decide to go for a ride now as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NST440 View Post
As far as purchase decision is concerned, i would suggest you to look for a bike in good condition Electra or Std. 2005-06-07-08 model
That's not easy to find. If they are there in good condition, their prices are too close to new one.
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Old 13th March 2011, 13:42   #59
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

The thing about CI bullets is that nothing has changed much in 60 years of existence.Every part is available.Everything can be taken apart and fixed by a good mechanic.Unless the engine is damaged or chassis is rusted ,every bullet can be restored to almost brand new condition.all leaks can be sealed.The mechanics servicing bullets deal with the same design for years and are pros in all aspects.my mechanic routinely buys ancient bullets from the scrapyard by wt. and restores them.then sells at insane profit.YOU just need to be involved a bit in the process and gather some knowledge.your bike will serve you for years to come while modern plastic toys disintegrate!
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Old 14th March 2011, 11:23   #60
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Default Re: Confused! Modify my Pulsar or Buy a Bullet

Thats right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post
Your perspective is that a Bull is as easy to own as any other bike if you maintain it properly.
On the dot. i think RE is the only bike which can be given a new life. 11+years old my535 is all set to get new paint and clean up job shortly, had done the same about 5years back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drsingh View Post
The thing about CI bullets is that nothing has changed much in 60 years of existence.Every part is available.Everything can be taken apart and fixed by a good mechanic.Unless the engine is damaged or chassis is rusted ,every bullet can be restored to almost brand new condition.all leaks can be sealed.The mechanics servicing bullets deal with the same design for years and are pros in all aspects.my mechanic routinely buys ancient bullets from the scrapyard by wt. and restores them.then sells at insane profit.YOU just need to be involved a bit in the process and gather some knowledge.your bike will serve you for years to come while modern plastic toys disintegrate!
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