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Old 25th March 2011, 13:58   #31
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

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Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
@sam_sant: Old times, huh. I remember you from the Royal Enfield club on Orkut .

Well, I too am in the same boat as you are. I too bought a new Std 350 in June 2009, about the same time as you did. Faced a lot of minor but irritating problems. I mean, it was really really irritating. After the initial feelings about "BULLET" wore off and I realized well it's just another bike (sorry, but it is) I got disillusioned with it and sold it off too. Only difference, I managed to hang on to it for close to a year. Now using a Yamaha FZ. It is fun to ride still, I don't know how long it will be interesting, maybe I'll get bored with it pretty soon. But it is pretty reliable and "just works" without demanding any more attention than regular service and filling petrol.

Not sure. Maybe, I too will come back to Bullets. But definitely not those old CI Bullets with unnecessarily old technology. Heavy crank is just a fixation newbie Bull owners (like me) had at one time.

Why don't you take a test ride of the 500cc Bullet Classic?

(I will be watching this thread, as our minds seem to think alike in many aspects )
Glad to meet you !!! I always thought mine was an 'odd' case wrt the 'new' Bullet. So it seems the story is quite serious about the 'last' STD 350's produced. As you said, and reading some logical comments above, now I have began to think if CI 350 is really doing justice to its reputation!!!

THIS HAS BY FAR BECOME QUITE COMPLEX. On one side I have people saying CI350 is the best bike India has ever produced. Some say just the opposite. Iam not being adviced to go buy a Bull for the love of thumping. In Catch 22 yet again!

Note: I had test driven the C500 the day it reached the showroom! Pretty impressed with the 'pulling' power. Pulls like a locomotive! I rem once I had a tough time catching up with a C500 on my P220 DTSi. Eventually I won, but it was quite different from the other small traffic races. C500 held good. But again spending 1.5 lakhs (in Blr) for a brand RE, I have my second thoughts.



While going through a used bike site I came across a CI 500 for 85k. Looked to be in good condition. 94 model. But owner didn't pick up.
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Old 25th March 2011, 14:02   #32
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

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Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
While going through a used bike site I came across a CI 500 for 85k. Looked to be in good condition. 94 model. But owner didn't pick up.


And you thought the CI350 had issues. LOL!!! this one will teach you a huge lot.

Stay away from the Bullets man unless you go for the new one's. You have no clue what you are getting into.
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Old 25th March 2011, 14:05   #33
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

Sam Sant,

Just a word of caution. Thumping along at 20kph is fine but your big end will not last more than 10-15,000 kilometers. Ever seen the number of STD350 cranks getting trued at Machine shops all over India? Major culprit: The so called "thumping" at 20 kph in top gear. Any which ways, the best Bullet to buy from the used market, like Desi rightly said would be the Electra 4S CDI. And if you don't use the bullet regularly, parts appear to fail more frequently. Avoid the CI500 as engine parts are getting increasingly difficult to source. All the best and I know the Bullet itch is very difficult to resist!

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 25th March 2011, 14:32   #34
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

As a matter of fact, I hope atleast some of you know 'Bullet Joy' in Vyttila, Ernakulam. He was the one who solved many of the issues in my new Bull in 2009 which the service center spoiled. After having the set of starting troubles, he once gave a demo on how to start a perfectly tuned Bull by ONE FINGER (that too on my bike). But by the time the 'sale' of my Bull was almost fixed by the smart sales executives at Popular Bajaj in leiu of the new P220 DTSi, which was just getting launched.

The same guy 'Bullet Joy', a veteran, who already owned 5 Bull's, which included a british bull OWNED BY NONE other than GREAT MGR (Tamilnadu). I donno how he managed to get it, but he owns that and that is his most priced posession. HE SPECIFICALLY TOLD ME THAT THE BIKE HAS 'SO MUCH' CRANK WEIGHT THAT IT CAN GO IN top gear EVEN at 15kmph and give the perfect thumping.
So if as many of u say it spoils the engine/gearbox, why should that super professional Bullet Mechanic tell me that ???? Mind you, whole of his family in into Bullet business, repairs and modifications. Did he go wrong?

Last edited by sam_sant2005 : 25th March 2011 at 14:34.
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Old 25th March 2011, 14:40   #35
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

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Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
So if as many of u say it spoils the engine/gearbox, why should that super professional Bullet Mechanic tell me that ???? Mind you, whole of his family in into Bullet business, repairs and modifications. Did he go wrong?
Don't you then think it makes more sense for you to go to him instead of coming to this forum for an answer to your query?

We are at the best amateurs and our family was never into Bullet business, repairs or modifications (atleast not mine). I need to confirm about my father's second cousin's third brother's maternal uncle though, I don't know much from that side of the family.

Last edited by Spitfire : 25th March 2011 at 14:43.
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Old 25th March 2011, 17:34   #36
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

san, I suggest you not to go for CI 500. as the spares availability is very rare and you will have to spend a lot for maintenance than a CI350. If you had come across trammway's thread "shooting the bullet" about his purchase on a CI500 and there are some serious problems even after the complete engine components changed to original ones after the purchase. May be as others suggest electra 4s would be a right choice, but in the current situation it is very difficult find a good one than a standard 350.
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Old 25th March 2011, 17:40   #37
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Don't you then think it makes more sense for you to go to him instead of coming to this forum for an answer to your query?

We are at the best amateurs and our family was never into Bullet business, repairs or modifications (atleast not mine). I need to confirm about my father's second cousin's third brother's maternal uncle though, I don't know much from that side of the family.
There is some truth in this heavy crank legend, so give the man a break. I have a 60s era heavy crank sitting in the basement and gathering rust. This one has the Bing carb and the heavy crank(between friends and my brothers, she is called Sprucegoose). Several years ago when the bike was in good nick, on a trip to Coorg with two people up, the bike was effortlessly hauling us up the slopes in 4th at 40 kmph. This was the bike's sweet spot, further twist of the throttle drew protests from the engine not more thrust. Hands down, that short Coorg trip is one of the greatest rides ever in my life.

Not that I want to jump into this thump vs. exhaust note debate, but there is something to be said for the stable and steady way in which the older engines idle and gather speed. Velvet. These older engines simply refuse to knock no matter the provocation. The LB500 by comparison, for instance, is ever willing to break into a knocking fit. It is more powerful and debatably more reliable, but it lacks refinement in my book. I am riding a green CI500 currently and it trumps the LB500 hands down when it comes to refinement, no contest. Sure it is slower, but who cares about a marginal increase in top speed? Maybe some do. But I will take the LB500's front suspension and disc brakes any day over the CI500s.

I haven't ridden an Electra, so cant comment on the engine's character. But if it is anywhere near as good as the 80s era CI350 that I owned for 4 years, then it is a bargain for the price it is available on the second hand market currently. Personally, I would buy a bike which is stock and the engine is still original and unopened.
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Old 25th March 2011, 19:44   #38
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

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Originally Posted by Beast_of_Burden View Post
There is some truth in this heavy crank legend, so give the man a break.
There is no truth in it. This is the stuff people tom-tom unnecessarily to prove some technically challenged point. Show me one and I will agree. Any bike can be ridden in top gear at 15 kmph. But is that how you would treat a bike?

Quote:
Several years ago when the bike was in good nick, on a trip to Coorg with two people up, the bike was effortlessly hauling us up the slopes in 4th at 40 kmph. This was the bike's sweet spot, further twist of the throttle drew protests from the engine not more thrust. Hands down, that short Coorg trip is one of the greatest rides ever in my life.
And that proves what? What stopped you from running her in a lower gear? Was it bragging rights later?

And you even go on to mention that any further twist made her protest? Did that tell you something or is that you enjoyed strangulating the poor engine?

And you really need to get it right when you mean sweet spot. A point beyond which a bikes is about to hole your piston is surely not the sweet spot for heavens sake.

Quote:
These older engines simply refuse to knock no matter the provocation.
So you agree riding in the higher gear up slopes is a provocation to the engine? I thought you meant otherwise.

Here is a person who has already seen the issues with his brand new bullet. He is honest enough to say that he didn't want it and sold it. Now he wants one back but for all the wrong reasons - again he is being honest. A fact we appreciate. So we are giving a honest reply accordingly.
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Old 25th March 2011, 20:46   #39
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Don't you then think it makes more sense for you to go to him instead of coming to this forum for an answer to your query?

We are at the best amateurs and our family was never into Bullet business, repairs or modifications (atleast not mine). I need to confirm about my father's second cousin's third brother's maternal uncle though, I don't know much from that side of the family.
Unwanted post I would say. Anyways for a clarification, the super mechanic whom I said is in Cochin and Iam in Blore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
There is no truth in it. This is the stuff people tom-tom unnecessarily to prove some technically challenged point. Show me one and I will agree. Any bike can be ridden in top gear at 15 kmph. But is that how you would treat a bike?



And that proves what? What stopped you from running her in a lower gear? Was it bragging rights later?

And you even go on to mention that any further twist made her protest? Did that tell you something or is that you enjoyed strangulating the poor engine?

And you really need to get it right when you mean sweet spot. A point beyond which a bikes is about to hole your piston is surely not the sweet spot for heavens sake.



So you agree riding in the higher gear up slopes is a provocation to the engine? I thought you meant otherwise.

Here is a person who has already seen the issues with his brand new bullet. He is honest enough to say that he didn't want it and sold it. Now he wants one back but for all the wrong reasons - again he is being honest. A fact we appreciate. So we are giving a honest reply accordingly.
Some of your points are valid, but though I wouldn't agree to all blindly. Torque has a role to play in any vehicle, be it a bike or a car. A 190nm Swift Diesel behaves in gear DIFFERENTLY from a Esteem petrol (both cars which I owned). Similarly a P150 with 13/14nm torque behaves DIFFERENTLY from a 20nm torque P220 (both bikes which I owned). SO TORQUE plays an important part be it in doing high range driving or on highways during overtaking without much downshifting etc.

For that matter CI350 has 28nm and 500's have in excess of 38nm I guess. The 'slow' speed 'lugging', which you term as damaging the engine, is in fact (to a large part) attributed to the torquee nature of the Bullets. So inclination@40kmph or 20kmph on a normal road, this torque (to me) comes into play and helps to move the bike forward.

As a automotive enthusiast for more than 15yrs (humbly), I usually know very well when to downshift and when my vehicle is gasping, a main reason why my vehicles last well. So only when it came to Bullet I was careful not to strangulate her in any case. But riding the 1982 heavy crank Bull from my friend I did 'realise' that the Bull could pull well even at slow speeds in top gear. We are not too idiots to ride like that knowingly damaging the engine/gearbox. Both myself and the Bull felt good and that is why I did so. I felt there is a threshold level. Different Bull's have different characters as some said. So some may pull even at 15kmph and some may at 40kmph.

I have been hearing about THIS 'attribute' of old heavy crank Bull's for long. Its not a single personal experience. Since many people have said this (incl the super bull mechanic. And at least 25 Bull lovers I have talked to), I do feel that it is NOT that bad for a Bull afterall, or may be she is strong enough to take that 'abuse' (if it is).

Anyways I expect some bhp gurus to opine on this. Thanks.
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Old 25th March 2011, 21:58   #40
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

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Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Unwanted post I would say.
Ok.

Quote:
Anyways I expect some bhp gurus to opine on this. Thanks.
Or more importantly people whom you want to listen to. I did my bit to help assuming I could have made a million rupees otherwise. Least I expected was some courtesy and acknowledgment of the commonsense and time involved.

I am out of here.
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Old 25th March 2011, 23:14   #41
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Ok.



Or more importantly people whom you want to listen to. I did my bit to help assuming I could have made a million rupees otherwise. Least I expected was some courtesy and acknowledgment of the commonsense and time involved.

I am out of here.
Hey dude don't take it that way. Have I ever opposed your comments blindly? I have taken all your invaluable inputs with due respect. This is just a healthy debate. team-bhp is all about such informative discussion. Hope you know this thread is under 'hot threads' in the team-bhp home page. This means a lot to many aspiring Bulleteers and pro Bulleteers. Your presence is a must here.

NOTE:

By addressing 'gurus' I wanted more 'Bulleteers' to comment on this thread.

naturally so anyone who posted after that was a 'guru' and you were the first!!!!

Last edited by sam_sant2005 : 25th March 2011 at 23:15.
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Old 26th March 2011, 00:33   #42
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

Oh now I remember, you're "sam" from RE club in orkut! Welcome back mate.

Now, let's not take this into a light vs heavy crank thread, or a bullet bashing thread.

I can understand your feelings sam. There was a time when I moved on from the CI350 to an A350 machismo. I went ahead as it had a better pickup, disk brakes, CDI and what not.. But over a period of time realized that it's not what I want. So sold it and went back to a CI500.

Now think about the reason why spitfire and others are suggesting not to go for an old bull. You sold off your new one because of frequent niggles, what do you expect out of an old 350? You should expect even more of those!! For instance, do you know for a fact that when you get a puncture in an old bullet with an old hub, you'd have to take off the enitre chain to remove the wheel?

So, if you have made up your mind to face all these small niggles, go ahead. Else stay away.

About the thumping in slow speed, I'm not the right person to comment. I've felt that these heavier crank bullets are good to ride in slow speeds, but seriously lack acceleration. I can't always thump along in 20-40, i want to overtake other vehicles too That's just me ..

Stay away from CI500 unless you seriously love it, you don't know what you're getting into. I've bought my piston rings and valves from hitchcock UK, and it's not an easy or economical thing to do.
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Old 26th March 2011, 07:28   #43
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

Sam as i understand if you have driven a two wheeler for most part of last few years then the urge to have a two wheeler will be there , so that you need not need to take your car for shorter comutes around home , but for that CI is not the right one . that to in bangalore . it also depends on which side of bangalore you are living (proximity to trusted mech ).I agree with spitfire , it is a pain to maintain a CI in metros .i have one , initialy planned to use it for gym or weekend bla bla .. but never starts when needed . service cost is almost four times the car service, for my old accent my regular service would not go above 2.2K , that too for 10K km , CI takes that every other trip to mech , still people say the bike is in grt condition . being a automobile lover is different and maintaining CI is different . If you are trying to use it only on weekend and start once in 15 days the posibility & chances that you will end up like june of 2009 are high . if you want first hand experience u can try maintaining my bike for one month . if you are a mallu chances of you comming out of this in flying colours are high.
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Old 26th March 2011, 11:05   #44
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

Hey Sam,

You know what you should do ?

Just go ahead and buy a Bullet, leave all this heavy crank, telescopic front suspension, CB points, electronic ignition, etc., by the way side. And you wont get new Bullets with the CI engines anymore. You'll get only the UCE ones now.

You are not buying the Bullet to show off, are you ? You are buying it to satisfy your desire to have one.

As far as the "thump" is concerned, you can use a free flow silencer with no glass wool, and you'll probably get "thumped" by your neighbours.

Just do it !!

Cheers

KD
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Old 27th March 2011, 12:09   #45
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Default Re: Once bitten twice shy - Used Bullet 350 CI

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Originally Posted by jingaboysr View Post
For instance, do you know for a fact that when you get a puncture in an old bullet with an old hub, you'd have to take off the enitre chain to remove the wheel?
Good point! But I think very few people move on with that 'old' hub. Instead most of the Bulleteers change it to the new type hub which doesn't require the chain to be removed for a puncture. And that can be done for any old Bull. That hub stays when one genuinely is insane!!!

Quote:
About the thumping in slow speed, I'm not the right person to comment. I've felt that these heavier crank bullets are good to ride in slow speeds, but seriously lack acceleration. I can't always thump along in 20-40, i want to overtake other vehicles too That's just me ..

Stay away from CI500 unless you seriously love it, you don't know what you're getting into. I've bought my piston rings and valves from hitchcock UK, and it's not an easy or economical thing to do.
Yes I agree. These old Bull's as u said do go well in slow speed and produce the irresistible slow 'beat'. But as u said definitely they lack acceleration. Those Bulls move the way they want!!! Even if one twists the acc, she ll take her own time to catch up! Theres a nack to everything, be it riding or starting. And while starting older Bull's start only by a prof Bulleteer. I have had hard times starting an old one. If you twist acc like for a Japanese bike she just won't start. :( But the modern day Bull's (one which I bought new) are much simpler to start. The sudden twist of acc lunges her forward pretty quickly too. Something to do with tuning too I wonder.

But then as I quoted sometime back, if Iam going for a Bull that should be for its UNIQUENESS. These modern day Bull's are pretty much going the Japanese way with the UCE engines. So there won't be any point for me to dump a super sporty P220 DTSi (which of course I enjoy a lot) and go for a newer gen Bull. Point is that if its P220 I will definitely race with others, but with a Bull I wouldn't! As simple as that. Bull does enjoy the respect from other bikers. I have experienced it first hand. I rem once a Pilot (in a taxi onway to airport) staring at my new Bull once at a traffic signal and giving me a thumbs up (felt really good). And about your CI500 parts imported from UK, that is some news for me. Thanks for that all imp warning.

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Originally Posted by Rovergen View Post
If you are trying to use it only on weekend and start once in 15 days the posibility & chances that you will end up like june of 2009 are high . if you want first hand experience u can try maintaining my bike for one month . if you are a mallu chances of you comming out of this in flying colours are high.
Thanks dude for the offer. But see Iam very much interested in bikes and cars and even the repairs. As a kid I was so used to greasing my hand for this and that for our old Fiat! So to me if Iam going for a Bull that would definitely mean that I would BECOME a mechanic this time. Last time what happened was that it was used for daily commute and one can't attend daily. This time it will be occasional use. I have a battery charger too at home in case. I have the tools too. So if its a weekend Iam ready to make my hands dirty. But for that surely I will need someone to teach me the Bullet 'tuning'!

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Originally Posted by kd7202 View Post
Hey Sam,

You are not buying the Bullet to show off, are you ? You are buying it to satisfy your desire to have one.
Totally agree.
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