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Old 11th April 2011, 20:29   #61
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Default Re: Does the Honda CBR-250 really raise the bar?

^^^
Hi,
yes thoughts make sense. But without a definitive statement from Honda, it is just so much more (enjoyable) speculation.

I dont think it shares any parts with the 1000 (other than nuts and bolts). The experts can confirm/ reject that.

Waiting now for the long rumored Bajaj-KTM India specific 200 Duke.

Other than evenness of wear, and less piston slap, what are the advantages of an offset bore?

Regards
Sutripta

PS. Forgot to pen my answer to the thread title. Does it raise the bar? In the Indian context, yes, but for a price. Is it the best way to spend your money? Don't know. Depends on your priorities.
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Old 11th April 2011, 23:26   #62
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Default Re: Does the Honda CBR-250 really raise the bar?

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
The balance shaft will add to the MoI. And in any case, a single needs a large 'flywheel'.

Other than evenness of wear, and less piston slap, what are the advantages of an offset bore? .
Primary purpose is to reduce ring to bore friction by reducing side loads. There is an undesirable side effect beyond a certain limit but I forget that number. I had seen the equations couple years ago

AFAIK, flywheel, crank weights and balancer are all addressing different types of balance issues and I'm not sure if one can be used as a substitute for the other. Thoughts? It would add to MoI as well as friction losses due to the drive gear and shaft bearings.

Last edited by Mpower : 19th April 2011 at 22:37.
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Old 12th April 2011, 14:54   #63
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Default Re: Does the Honda CBR-250 really raise the bar?

^^^
Hi,
AFAIK, the main ring pressure comes from gas pressure. Piston sidethrust from con rod.

Re: MoI. A single will need a substantial 'flywheel' to keep turning through the 3 nonpower cycles.
Re: Balance. When you have a balance shaft, the bobweights are shared between the two shafts. So the crank itself becomes lighter.

Have a feeling that Honda is trying to create a new segment. Something it did with the cub ages ago.

What engine does the Brazilian Twister use?
When I was talking of Honda's portfolio of engines, was thinking of both past and present.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 12th April 2011 at 14:55.
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Old 12th April 2011, 22:38   #64
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Default Re: Does the Honda CBR-250 really raise the bar?

Good Catch. I completely overlooked the Twister. Its been around for a long time actually and I wonder if it would have out a little cheaper.

It used to be a 250 for a long time but its now opened up to 300. Has LC, EFI, DOHC 4V but does not have the FE enablers like the coatings, finger followers and offset bore and probably does not meet BSxx emissions. Really beats me as to why 2 such similar engines/bikes should co-exist.
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Old 15th April 2011, 17:55   #65
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Default Re: Does the Honda CBR-250 really raise the bar?

Hi,
Thought of something else.
Does anyone know if the FB has an offset bore (and if so, by how much) and a knock sensor? Does the 250r have a knock sensor?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 19th April 2011, 00:11   #66
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Default Re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by Tommie View Post
Gimme a break, its just the old wine in a new bottle after 30 years. I did a bit more research on the 250 CC bikes.

Here is the single cylinder model called Honda CB 250 RS -1981 model (a.k.a Racing Single)
1981 Honda CB 250 RS specifications and pictures
Single Cylinder, 26HP @ 8500 RPM, top speed of 146 kmph with front disc brake.

The twin cylinder bike is Honda CB 250 N -1981 model (A.k.a SuperDream)
1981 Honda CB 250 N specifications and pictures
Twin cylinder, 27HP @10000 RPM, top speed of 142 kmph with front disc


Is CBR250R the best that Honda can produce after 30 years it has produced CB250RS and CB250N.

Additional reference:
Honda CB250


Well the possible explanation is.... in 1981 these hondas were sold in different part of the world whereas in India the biking wasnt that advanced. "Period".

Even today we see the bike makers making a fool out of us giving little tweaks to 100 and 150 cc's, and 250s thinking we drool out of the likes.

Now i say gimme a break.. those hondas were sold 30 years back and now coming to our country with the some tech stuff that prevails in 2000AD.

Maybe this era is the Medieval Dark Age of biking dawn to us.

I totally believe that India is the potential giant buyer market and the bikes should be launched here even before the outer countries. I mean just look at the TBhp site, its full of techies who are freakin geniuses and know what bullsh... they are talking about.

Last edited by aah78 : 21st April 2011 at 03:10. Reason: Wrong edit.
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Old 19th April 2011, 22:25   #67
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Default Re: Does the Honda CBR-250 really raise the bar?

Remember when Honda got the CD 100, Yamaha brought RX 100 and RD 350 in India. Both were and are still big hits in India. The RD 350 took a toll when the petrol prices increased prior to the Kuwait war season which people could not afford for the commuting usage and not as fun biking.

I believe that Honda is taking the same stance that it did in early 80's with the CD 100 the same way they wanted Indians to scale up from 50 CC TVS mopeds to 100 CC bikes which gives 80kmpl instead of the 35kmpl for 2 stroke bike. This time its not purely 4 stroke or milage, but the subject here is beginners world sports bike for India.
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Old 19th April 2011, 23:31   #68
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Default Re: Does the Honda CBR-250 really raise the bar?

On a lighter note(considering Indian conditions), riding an Apache 160/180, R15, Pulsar at reasonably good speeds itself turns out to be a nightmare in our country. I know they are good bikes in their own ways but we still know how many accidents occur due to variety of reasons(cows, dogs, people, oil slicks etc etc).

Kawasaki brought Ninja 250 but that was out of reach for most people in a sense that they are not ready to cough up ~3L for a bike.

Come 2011, Honda brings in a freaky powerful bike(again, by Indian standards) at an affordable price. Man, this scares me now. . Wonder how many more scary moments are there in store while riding on roads.

And few people say, its not big enough/powerful enough.(Sigh!!)

Sorry for being a bit on pessimistic/negative side, but I feel Govt has done the right thing by not allowing large hearted bikes. I feel powerful bikes(say 600cc for eg) should never be released for mass markets like India until we can match the conditions in countries where they are allowed.

Please dont tell me about SAFE RIDING. You can never under-estimate the rush of adrenaline of young blood

Last edited by akhil_007 : 19th April 2011 at 23:45.
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Old 20th April 2011, 01:01   #69
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Default Re: Does the Honda CBR-250 really raise the bar?

This post title is a question, and I think there are 2 links which sum it up best, one of them is this:

1. Honda CBR250 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NOT This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CBR250R_(2011)

The other is this:

2. Honda CBR250R vs Kawasaki Ninja 250R - Motorcycle USA

I havent tried out the 2011 contraption (no offense, that's just what I call bikes over loaded with tech..) but I wouldnt diss it either because it caters to a different segment to the 18000 rpm machine also bearing a similar name(pt 1.) I stole a ride on few years ago. THAT was a sports bike. This thing, is a good bike, neatly finished, fantastically packaged, attractively priced, but doesnt raise the bar (even with all the technology and legendary Honda smoothness). Because it wasnt designed to do so, its probably supposed to carve a niche for itself, which is what it will probably do.

As long as they price it right, It's got enough going for it and there will be enough serious riders as well as posers gunning for it. Just don't go buying it expecting sports bike acceleration.
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Old 20th April 2011, 04:48   #70
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Default Re: Does the Honda CBR-250 really raise the bar?

On that happy note, since the CBR250R is obviously asking questions which are taking the lot 5 pages to get done with, does anyone know of an 04 ZX10R or a 00 ZX12R for sale? .. Or exchange? (I've got a few to chose from.) Any help would be much appreciated. Before anyone asks, It's easy deciding between 2 kwackers. It's just a matter of which one will kill you sooner or turn you broke. Throw in a Honda (CBR250 or another) and you're talking about refinement and durability and reliability and all those words which to me have nothing to do with a motorcycle (It either scares you silly enough to barely live to tell the tale, or it does not, simple)

Last edited by bblost : 22nd April 2011 at 22:00. Reason: Not Needed. Thanks.
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Old 20th April 2011, 10:39   #71
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Default Re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by akhil_007 View Post
Sorry for being a bit on pessimistic/negative side, but I feel Govt has done the right thing by not allowing large hearted bikes. I feel powerful bikes(say 600cc for eg) should never be released for mass markets like India until we can match the conditions in countries where they are allowed.
Pray, tell me what Car do you drive? Aren't Cars powerful enough to get you into trouble?

Its the idiot behind the wheel who causes accidents and not the vehicle.

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So you are implying that TBHP techies talk bullsh... LOL.
I think he meant it in a good way
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Old 20th April 2011, 10:51   #72
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Default Re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Pray, tell me what Car do you drive? Aren't Cars powerful enough to get you into trouble?

Its the idiot behind the wheel who causes accidents and not the vehicle.
Yes Sir, that is why I mentioned about not under-estimating the adrenaline rush of young blood. Cars are powerful, I agree but a common man may not afford/not buy a powerful car due its cost(say around 5-6 lacs). And chances of losing balance on a 2 wheeler is far more greater than in a car.
When people can afford 1.1L R15, they would not mind going for 1.5L Honda which has more power and also "The Idiot behind the wheel(handle bar) " as you said, has more chances of screwing it up.

Last edited by akhil_007 : 20th April 2011 at 11:14.
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Old 20th April 2011, 11:02   #73
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Default Re: Does the Honda CBR-250 really raise the bar?

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It either scares you silly enough to barely live to tell the tale, or it does not, simple
I am guessing you were born on the same day the CD100 was launched. Poor you..
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Old 20th April 2011, 11:17   #74
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Default Re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Originally Posted by akhil_007 View Post
Yes Sir, that why I mentioned about not under-estimating the adrenaline rush of young blood. Cars are powerful, I agree but a common man may not afford/not buy a powerful car due its cost(say around 5-6 lacs). And chances of losing balance on a 2 wheeler is far more greater than in a car.
When people can afford 1.1L R15, they would not mind going for 1.5L Honda which has more power and also "The Idiot behind the wheel(handle bar) " as you said, has more chances of screwing it up.
Most of the blokes who ride a R15 or would buy a CBR should have a proper powerful Car stashed at their home.

You have to first understand as to who would buy the bike. Not executives for sure.

Students with rich daddy who at-least have a fast Car at home or enthusiasts who for now can't afford much.

How many cases of hit & run do we see in a M'cycle vis a vis with the Car?

Its the person behind the wheel, yes. But they can be fatal with both the Car & Bike, so instead of saying that this & that shouldn't be launched, it would be better that we (collectively) may ask for stringent licensing prior to handing out the license to young impressionable guys, but then this would be out of context.

Power Cars & M'cycles would be launched & we should welcome it w/o being cynical.
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Old 20th April 2011, 11:28   #75
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Default Re: Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

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Most of the blokes who ride a R15 or would buy a CBR should have a proper powerful Car stashed at their home.

I dont agree with this.
Even if it is so, the number is very less.

Its the person behind the wheel, yes. But they can be fatal with both the Car & Bike, so instead of saying that this & that shouldn't be launched, it would be better that we (collectively) may ask for stringent licensing prior to handing out the license to young impressionable guys, but then this would be out of context.

but we all know that this is not gonna happen anytime soon
I meant large hearted bikes should not be lauched until people are educated enough to ride it. I did not mean Honda CBR250.

Last edited by akhil_007 : 20th April 2011 at 11:36.
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